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You want me to chew your food before you swallow it? I gave a quote from Pg 15 of Kung's book - what does it say about the Bible in relation to Pauline vs Jewish Christian discussion we've been having? I'm just checking you understand what you are reading - simple really. If you look up this page at...

In answer to a question asked in the Paul Vision thread, here are some references and background to Jewish Christians - and particularly references to the difference between their views and what is called 'Pauline Christianity'. I've highlighted the references from a number of books quoted below, an...

Thank you for your views eh - the readers will be able to compare your theories with those of the authors I highlighted in the article. As I stated very early on, the differences between us all stem from from which historical accounts we choose to believe. Your belief that the Bible is gospel despit...

As I said, we can compare what the historians and authors are saying about the history of the church being re-written in favour of Pauline Christian views, and your insistence that this version of history is Gospel. Your views of what the Jewish Christians were etc is as per the traditional Pauline ...

Does Kung say that the Church history was re-written by the Pauline Christian victors along theological lines? Does he not also state that the Christians the 'official' church declared as heretical have now (recently) been rehabilitated (i.e. recognised as true Christians) and that he includes 'Jewi...

Ok, let me connect the dots for you. The apostles that did not follow Pauline Christian doctrines but rather remained true to Jesus' teachings (as believed by the Jewish Christians) were the ones that were wary of Paul's changing of Jesus' mission. This schism between Jewish Christians and Pauline C...

Your name dropping of a theological school of thought would be more impressive had you not admitted that you didn't know who Gibbon was and that 2 mins on Google showed (you said) that he didn't demonstrate that the Bible was historically suspect. Must be embarrassing that you actually named a threa...

What historian makes the claim that Jewish Christians did not agree with Pauline Christian theological innovations? Pretty much every historian who has written on the subject of the differences between the two! The Jewish Christians believed (as do Muslims) that Jesus taught his disciples that he wa...

Not as embarrassing as claiming (while pontificating on the epistle, which apparently you had not read) that Jesus was the speaker in a letter *from* James. Yeah, my mistake was embarrassing - quoting Jesus instead of James when he contradicts Paul's contention that works are +not+ needed! Hey - at...

I am actually grateful eh took the time to type out his view of Jewish Christians. It serves to make my point that he is relying on official church history to back his view. My point has been that from Gibbon onwards, the historians have not shared the faith eh is exhibiting for the Church's account...

eh requested I produce references from (more) theologians to back up what Kung is quoted as saying about the insertion of mysogynistic verses into the NT. Let me therefore add one more reference (more can be added if required - but eh, can work on this one for now). Father Jerome Murphy-O'Connor, O....

Your faith in official church history is touching. I refer you to the quote I gave from Father Murphy-O'Conner in the 'Contradictions in NT' thread - which shows that your views are at odds with historical fact. I agree that the official church history downplays the differences between Pauline and J...

Great - we agree on the fact Kung is a theologian. I'm also glad we agree that the Bible contains forgeries, falsely attributed to Peter and Paul (in examples above). Can you quote what +you think+ Kung says the differences are between Jewish Christian views of the beliefs of Jesus and his apostles ...

Thanks eh - I thought it would be a long shot to ask you to produce actual quotes from Kung, but I thought I'd be polite and ask. As I said, my reading of Kung's comments on Jewish Christians in Women in Christianity is in total accordance with what I've posted - he agrees that the Jewish Christians...

Kung talks about Jewish Christianity in Women in Christianity on the pages following pg 15 - as I stated before. If your contention is that Kung agrees with you that the Jewish Christians simultaneously viewed Paul as an apostate and believed that Jesus' apostles supported Paul's views, then I am su...

Well, I'm glad the information that I'm presenting isn't news to you. Given that I've quoted Father O'Conner stating that the Bible contains forged verses which contradict other parts of the Bible - then I take it you knew I was right all along when I stated the Bible contains contradictory verses w...

A simple 'I can't show where Kung agrees with my view' would have sufficed. ;) You will notice that this thread is full of references about the Jewish Christians and I have already thanked you for providing the old official church view of Jewish Christians. It is self evident that the Jewish Christi...

Why did you ask me to produce a reference from a NT scholar then? Anyway - glad you don't disagree that Father O'Conner is a reputable Biblical scholar/theologian who has written books about Paul. It is interesting that he outright contradicts your view of this passage - that it is not only a contra...

When are you going to quote from these New Testament theologians you so often read? This was what I was responding to when I posted Father Murphy O'Conner's quotation about the Bible's inauthenticity when it came to Pauline Christian history - he talks about the fabricated verses inserted by Paulin...

I'll just wait patiently to see how you explain the Bible's assertion that the earth stopped rotating for a day. I've been waiting almost 2 months now. Then I'll come back and address this verse - Berrin etc, may I suggest we wait for EH to answer the question posed in March first? Cheers, Shafique

Ha ha. It must be infuritating for you that British people can and do exercise their democratic rights in the ballot box and also on the streets. BNP are classic bullies - talk tough but crumble and cry for mummy when challenged. Not surprising you feel the need to resort to ad hominem attacks thoug...

Hmmm- I guess I'll ask the new moderators to delete all the 'off topic' posts in the 'Christian Terrorists' thread then? :) But, pray tell, why the new thread on Quran and Science when we have your previous attempts below and the spin off one (which you requested) on Bible and Science? All Mouth, No...

Nice to see you've completely lost the argument, young man.

shafique wrote:I'll just wait patiently to see how you explain the Bible's assertion that the earth stopped rotating for a day.

I've been waiting almost 2 months now.

Was I unclear?

Then I'll come back and address this verse.

No, no problems with rednecks etc opposing government/politicians in the US! :roll: That said, I totally agree that the Brits aren't like the nutters you have - we give people the opportunity to speak their mind and then tell them what we think -to their faces and also in the ballot box. The only re...

You quoted 4.34 in your original post. God states that sequence of punishments - only the last in the sequence is physical punishment. Ergo, one does not have the permission/right to batter one's wife. What I read in these clear verses is God's clear instructions as to what is allowed when it comes ...

sniff, sniff - what's that I smell? Could it be a whiff of desperation? :mrgreen: So we have eh dreaming of Danny Devito look-a-likes (makes a change from Afghan boys!) and now FD imagining ecstatic wife beatings as a sign of piety. :mrgreen: What weird interpretations you guys have of a straightfor...

Robby - stop playing with the guy!

Cheers,
Shafique

On a lighter note, I chuckled at this (from before the last US election, but only sent to me today):

Flying Dutchman wrote:Yes, I also read Shafique claiming that wife beating can be a beatifull thing, a gift from god, especially when it prevents divorce. Truely beyond mind boggling!Sick to the core!

Hmm, you seem to have a funny way of spelling 'Berrin'.