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shafique

When you look at the chemical composition of man, we are mostly water and a limited number of elements. Many scientists believe that life itself started from a 'primordial soup' - a mixture of water and minerals, and I would interpret the word 'clay' to be equivalent to this (clay is water and earth...

shafique

Frederick, My point about Christians choosing which parts of the Bible to consider as binding laws and which to ignore used the example of the Biblical commandment that women should cover their hair. My understanding is that St Paul also advocated this practice in the NT, and hence the arguments abo...

shafique

Alochol: Why forbid alcohol while praying when it is forbidden at all times? Specifying that drinking isnot allowed when praying very strongly implies that using alcohol when not praying is allowed. Not allowing alcohol while driving doesn´t forbid drinking alcohol at all times, does it? OK, we can...

shafique

Everyone can interpret things differently but the holy books are the most studied writings of all times and there is definitely a consensus and solid expertise about the meaning and true interpretation and applications of their teachings. I have to disagree in respect of the Bible and Christianity ...

shafique

Freza, Let us agree to disagree. I have not found Jehova's witnesses to be irrational or to have bizare 'scientology' like beliefs - but rather they only claim to have gone back to the original (and yes literal) teachings of the Bible. They claim to have gone and studied the Bible and reject all the...

shafique

This is because the cultures in which Christianity has existed do not prevent anyone changing a few rules to suit themselves. How long do you think that I would last if I started an Islamic based religion that allows followers to eat pork. My point is that just because you think that it is wrong, d...

shafique

While people have different beliefs about what Christianity is, that does not make them correct or religious authorities. They (the leaders/priests/theologians of the different sects) believe they are correct and have the religious authority. As far as Jesus saying he didn't abolish the laws, he wa...

shafique

Jesus also said 'Faith without works is dead' - which my Christian colleagues tell me means that if one has faith one obeys the laws of God. Therefore Christians still follow the laws of God, and Jesus said he did not come to change the law. Christ also said the Sabbath was made for man, man wasn't...

shafique

Shafique, Agreeing to disagreeing is fine by me but I'm not sure you completely understood my viewpoint. The consensus that I mentioned for me lies on seeing the study of the Bible as a historical book and an important work of literature which has been translated and interpreted as such by academic...

shafique

that's why I acknowledged that there are mysteries and debates, you did see that? Scholarly disputes are normal. They are part of every major work of literature and important periods of history, I mean, what's new and unusual about scholarly disputes? So there are disputes about the Bible, so what?...

shafique

Frederick, Thanks for the interesting post. I'll try and be brief in my reply. Firstly thank you for confirming my reading of Christian history that there has not been consensus on the meaning of the Bible. Concerning Arius - I presented him as an example of a significant difference of interpretatio...

shafique

Freza, You are right - amongst the Christian groups that agree with each other on the interpretation of the Bible, there is consensus. If you class all the other groups who call themselves Christians, but are called 'heretics' by the others, then you are completely correct. My mistake was to point o...

shafique

As above, contradictions or not, that Islam and other religions are based on "the word of God as copied by someone else" means there are zero real facts involved. At least Islam is unique in having a scripture that claims to be the direct revelation of words spoken by God, and that these ...

shafique

Valkyrie, There's taking a verse out of context or omitting the qualifications (such as 'fight only until injustice stops or the enemy offers truce') and there are verses which theologians say do not apply (abbrogation of verses - such as Leviticus saying it's ok to sell your daughter into slavery)....

shafique

Bump - deserves a re-read given the recent posts in the 'Gaza' thread.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique

rudeboy - please read my resurrected thread on the UN debate on the formation of Israel. Note it does say that 300,000 jews were given refuge in Palestine between the wars, and continued to do so when Britain, the US and Canada all closed their borders. The warnings of the consequences of the injust...

shafique

I'm sorry, not sure I read that right. Are you suggesting that the most accurate method would be to blindly ignore the author's intent and instead take everything literally? Where the author is God and the instruction is clear and without qualification, yes. Where the 'intent' is someones interpret...

shafique

For Freza - here is a quote from Karen Armstrong's book 'History of God' - Ch 8 (I reached this passage today, and thought I'd post it - she also talks about the other dissensions in the early church, but I think we've addressed those in the previous posts) Indeed, by the end of the sixteenth centur...

shafique

What you quote here is not new to me or contradicts from my views that consensus on interpretation is there. You again focus on religious groups rather than scholarly views. I prefer to see the bigger picture. With respect, the bit I highlighted talked about the variance of interpretation of the Bi...

shafique

This entire fixation on differences though, is a distraction to what really matters. Believing or not in trinity doesn't matter, what should matter to Christians is how they lead their lives. How Christianity teaches people to live their lives is no different from any other religion - for all have ...

shafique

Should we do the same with Shakespeare? Should we ignore the fact that "die" could mean orgasm at the time, and ignore the implications that this changes the entire meaning of certain passages? If you equate Shakespeare with the Bible, then logically - yes. Are you saying both are fiction...

shafique

shafique, that's not my interpretation of v9:5, but Ibn Kathir's. I hightlighted that verse because he used it himself. http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=20750 I have a feeling that if I do more research on this verse, more Islamic scholars would disagree with your interpretation. Tha...

shafique

Christ said the Old Law was fulfilled. What's your definition of fulfill? Prophecies in the Old Law that a reformer for the Jews would come and bring Jews back to the core teachings of Judaism were fulfilled. Jesus said, "Do not think I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come...

shafique

Most of the bloodshed in the name of Christianity or not even in the name of Christianity but perpetuated by Christians was really about political power struggles, ambition, egos, etc. by men who deliberately (not innocently misinterpreted, but deliberately) chose to ignore and out right twisted wh...

shafique

Shaf excuse my ignorance but i thought Moses was the Jewish "top man". Jesus is considered a prophet in Islam, so does that make the fact you consider him the "messiah" for the Jews a contradictory statement in relation the the Jewish/Arab issue? :? Arnie - that isn't a silly qu...

shafique

Freza - many thanks for your post, it captures the views of many Christians very well. Your views about Gibbon are at odds with all current Biblical scholars who do agree that his accounts of historical events is correct. He actually did not start off critical of Christianity, but became disillusion...

shafique

thanks Shaf for taking the time to explain - appreciated. If Muslims/Islam consider Jesus a Messiah, why does Islam put Mohammed on such a pedestal?. Surely if they were both sent by God they should have equal status. In your explanation would you say it is because Jesus's only purpose was to repre...

shafique

Shafique, I think you choose your sources to support your biased views on this particular subject, yes I stand by this and frankly I can see that you do not have a profound understanding of the Bible. If you had a better understanding you would not be getting very basic but important beliefs and ve...

shafique

Let me interpret it this way. I started programming with C++ and then learned that a new powerful language Java has come up, then came Microsoft .Net. Then .net 2.0 and now even .net 3.0 They all follow Object Oriented principles. However their versions are different, syntaxes are different. Still ...

shafique

I found this comment on Iran's launch of a missile into space funny and interesting. By Mike Richards Posted Tuesday 5th February 2008 16:16 GMT Why is Washington so obsessed with Iran? Easy - it used to be theirs. They once had a tame dictator with impeccable fashion sense and a ready love of tortu...

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