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event horizon · Dec 03, 2010

He cited the Koran to justify his wife beating. But in Germany, the Koran is not yet a source for legislation.

A Muslim imam who lectures on non-violence and advises the German government on interfaith issues has been arrested in Germany for beating up his wife.

Sheikh Abu Adam, 40, is now on remand in Munich while his wife, 31, is being guarded by police.

She was allegedly assaulted so badly that she suffered a broken nose and shoulder and numerous cuts and bruises.

Media reports claimed the woman, who has borne one of his ten children, wanted to live a more 'western' lifestyle and was allegedly attacked after telling her husband.

...

Adam is alleged to have shouted a verse from the Koran at his wife as he beat her.

The line said: 'Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them.

'As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them.'

zubber · Dec 04, 2010

yep, its buffoons like these that give religion a bad name, :roll:

kanelli · Dec 04, 2010

He lectures on non-violence and interfaith issues - then does this behind his closed doors. That's priceless.

I hope she will be okay and can permanently free herself and her child from him.

shafique · Dec 04, 2010

Hypocrisy exposed! Another case of 'do as I say' - and indeed it is cases like this that give religion a bad name.

Purely by coincidence (and at the risk of being accused of using a 'what-aboutery' argument), this piece of news was on Haaretz this morning:

A Hasidic rabbi and three of his sons are suspected of sexually abusing at least four female relatives after the eldest victim confided her plight to a co-worker at a Jewish school, police said Friday.

The 58-year-old father and his 21-year-old son fled to Israel two days ago and are wanted for questioning in the case, police said.

Two other sons, a 24-year-old and a 15-year-old, were arrested on sexual abuse and rape charges. It was unclear whether they had attorneys, and a message left at the home wasn't immediately returned

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/new ... s-1.328725

So, Priests, Rabbis and Imams are humans and all can act against the teachings of their religions and give religion a bad name.

cheers,
Shafique

kanelli · Dec 04, 2010

That's shameful. These people are seriously sick.

Bethsmum · Dec 04, 2010

Unfortunately domestic abuse is rife and unfortunately a lot goes on behind closed doors that is never revealed. These are just the cases you hear about.

Bora Bora · Dec 04, 2010

Wasn't there a thread on DF discussing how some Muslims wanted Sharia law to be recognized in non-Islamic countries where one law applied to all (UK and US)? Isn't Sharia based on the Koran? So, if Sharia law was recognized and practiced in non-Islamic countries, this guy would walk free. Fortunately he is under the law of the country he lives in.

shafique · Dec 04, 2010

Bora Bora wrote: So, if Sharia law was recognized and practiced in non-Islamic countries, this guy would walk free.

No he wouldn't.

Even the Saudis lock up wife beaters - and they certainly have severe interpretation of Shariah when it comes to women's rights:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3763123.stm
(Unfortunately, it is only on blogs such as Jihadwatch where 'scholars' like Bob Spencer - who hasn't actually read the whole Quran :roll:

- issue 'fatwas' saying that Islam allows men to batter their wives. In reality the frightening statistic that in Europe one in five women is subject to violence seems to be a feature of all societies around the world.)

Sorry to burst your bubble there Bora.

Cheers,
Shafique

desertdudeshj · Dec 04, 2010

Soap box lady clearly has no idea whats shes talking about.

event horizon · Dec 04, 2010

So, Priests, Rabbis and Imams are humans and all can act against the teachings of their religions and give religion a bad name.

In this case, the Imam explicitly justified his actions based on what the Koran said.

So, he was acting in accordance to the teachings of Islam.

zubber · Dec 04, 2010

event horizon wrote:
In this case, the Imam explicitly justified his actions based on what the Koran said.

So, he was acting in accordance to the teachings of Islam.

Nay! The idiot was using his own inferior intellect to draw his own idiotic assumptions, Derivation of any action without justification from the established guidelines of the exegesis of the quranic text is technically illegal according to the Sharia.

event horizon · Dec 04, 2010

Don't tell shafique that.

He says you don't need scholars to interpret the Koran for Muslims.

I actually think you do.

zubber · Dec 04, 2010

Then this shafique character is mistaken, and will be held accountable for heresy, if tried in a court of law (sharia)

event horizon · Dec 04, 2010

zubber wrote:Then this shafique character is mistaken, and will be held accountable for heresy, if tried in a court of law (sharia)

I agree with you.

Actually, shafique isn't Muslim though.

He belongs to a deviant sect of Islam whose founder verbally abused Muslim clerics (people who actually studied Islam and knew Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the founder of Ahmadiyyism, to be a crack-pot) and insulted Prophet Jesus.

zubber · Dec 04, 2010

event horizon wrote:.. the founder of Ahmadiyyism, to be a crack-pot) and insulted Prophet Jesus.

Aptly put Mr.Horizon,

It is not the way of islam to slander any biblical prophets in anyway, these sects are as a result of the false understanding, misrepresentation and a backlash of their founders from the subjugation they have received from all government systems based in theocracy, IMHO they are innovative, destructive and completely confusing, look at SCIENTOLOGY anyone who has studies it will tell you they are full of $hit.

desertdudeshj · Dec 04, 2010

Which faith does someone belong to is one thing, none of your bussiness and next time can be considered as reveleaing personal info about a member of DF on the public forum and will be deleted as such.

Bora Bora · Dec 04, 2010

shafique wrote:
Bora Bora wrote: So, if Sharia law was recognized and practiced in non-Islamic countries, this guy would walk free.

No he wouldn't.

Even the Saudis lock up wife beaters - and they certainly have severe interpretation of Shariah when it comes to women's rights:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3763123.stm
(Unfortunately, it is only on blogs such as Jihadwatch where 'scholars' like Bob Spencer - who hasn't actually read the whole Quran - issue 'fatwas' saying that Islam allows men to batter their wives. In reality the frightening statistic that in Europe one in five women is subject to violence seems to be a feature of all societies around the world.)

Sorry to burst your bubble there Bora.

Cheers,
Shafique

Geez Shaf, did you miss the ? (as in question) mark???? I was actually asking a question, not making a wish. Nor did I post any smilies. I'm not sure what "bubble" you are referring to Shaf. I guess I'm not allowed a serious moment without someone thinking otherwise. :roll:

event horizon · Dec 04, 2010

desertdudeshj wrote:Which faith does someone belong to is one thing, none of your bussiness and next time can be considered as reveleaing personal info about a member of DF on the public forum and will be deleted as such.

Ha ha.

Actually, shafique has a history of asking which faith other members are, as well as if they're male or female, come from a single child home, race, nationality and even age.

And religious identity is not personal info, as in, personally identifiable information.

But posting on a forum with your name, occupation and where you've lived is information that is more identifiable than religious identity.

You seriously don't even know what you're talking about, just making it up as you go along, aren't you, Mr. Bigshot Moderator?

can be considered as reveleaing personal info about a member of DF on the public forum

But revealing where I and another member live isn't?

desertdudeshj · Dec 04, 2010

New rules mate and shaken on

Flying Dutchman wrote:
desertdudeshj wrote:Anyways fine I'll go along for now a little tighter control and editing, but that does mean everybody has to be civil. No MUD SLINGING personal or otherwise. Discussion and arguments will be allowed but just pointless bashing without any actual points being made and plain propaganda won't, will be edited or plain deleted and no arguments and crying foul when done so, total discrection of the mods. Similar threads on same topics will bunched up toghter or split vice versa and I can personaly do this in section I am mod only. Lets see how it goes

Deal ?

Sure dude.

If you don't like them move along. If you continue to whine, thread will either be locked or deleted

shafique · Dec 04, 2010

Bora Bora wrote:
shafique wrote:
Bora Bora wrote: So, if Sharia law was recognized and practiced in non-Islamic countries, this guy would walk free.

No he wouldn't.
..

Geez Shaf, did you miss the ? (as in question) mark???? I was actually asking a question, not making a wish.

Sorry, Bora - I did see the question marks in the previous sentences, but it was the sentence above that I was responding to.

Sharia is indeed based on the Quran and in the various threads about what the Quran says about treatment of spouses and whether the crime this guy is accused of is allowed in Islam or not, this has been discussed to death.

But in response to your specific point (which I didn't take to be a question - but which you imply was) - I hope I have clarified that under Shariah law a guy guilty of the crimes described would not walk free.

Cheers,
Shafique

Bora Bora · Dec 04, 2010

desertdudeshj wrote:Soap box lady clearly has no idea whats shes talking about.

Did you get an on-line masters degree to become a grease monkey?

DDS I have to say you are probably one of the most miserable people on DF. Negative, negative, negative. Poor you (in many ways).

Move along.

shafique · Dec 04, 2010

So Bora - just to clarify the other point I made - it is only Islamophobic websites that say Islam teaches that this kind of crime is ok in Islam.

Muslim scholars and indeed anyone reading the Quran in totality all agree that this is not the case. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating - where Shariah is the law of the land, those committing the crime described in the OP are locked up and even lashed.

What is funny though, is when non-Muslim bloggers insist that they know more about the Quran than Muslims and Islamic scholars.

Cheers,
Shafique

zubber · Dec 04, 2010

Excellent point, This phenomenon is not only restricted to bloggers, but also includes a vast majority of anti-islamic writers and tv personalities, eg- Wafa Sultan

event horizon · Dec 04, 2010

Here's a good thread on the Muslim perspective of wife beating:

dubai-politics-talk/wife-beating-the-muslim-perspective-t39819.html

What's interesting to note, though, was that this cleric justified his wife beating based on the clear passage of the Koran.

-- Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:46 pm --

Edit: It looks like my thread; UAE - Men can up their wives (legally) !!!, (it's still on the bottom of this page) has been deleted by the mods.

Otherwise, I would have linked to that in this thread.

shafique · Dec 04, 2010

zubber wrote:Excellent point, This phenomenon is not only restricted to bloggers, but also includes a vast majority of anti-islamic writers and tv personalities, eg- Wafa Sultan

Wafa shares much with the bloggers - a wilful misinterpretation of Islamic texts and a wilfully ignoring of Quranic exegesis.

But their favourite tactic is to quote texts and snippets out of context - or to look up minority opinions and insinuate that this is the 'orthodox' view.

Cheers,
Shafique

Bora Bora · Dec 04, 2010

Thank you Shaf. The same could be said about non-Muslims and non-practicing Muslims who probably never read the Koran. I am a believer that smart people ask questions and know that there isn't always one answer; it's the ignorant ones who don't ask, but think they have the answers. :wink:

shafique · Dec 04, 2010

Bora - you're welcome. Apologies again for misreading your post - sometimes it is too easy to read emotions/motives not intended into posts.

I always welcome questions.. sometimes to a fault!

Edit (oh - and I agree - there are indeed many Muslims who are ignorant of some aspects of their religion..)

Cheers,
Shafique

zubber · Dec 04, 2010

Bora Bora wrote:.....The same could be said about non-Muslims and non-practicing Muslims who probably never read the Koran. I am a believer that smart people ask questions and know that there isn't always one answer; it's the ignorant ones who don't ask, but think they have the answers.

RIGHT ON ! Bora :bounce:

Bora Bora · Dec 04, 2010

desertdudeshj wrote:New rules mate and shaken on
Flying Dutchman wrote:
desertdudeshj wrote:Anyways fine I'll go along for now a little tighter control and editing, but that does mean everybody has to be civil. No MUD SLINGING personal or otherwise. Discussion and arguments will be allowed but just pointless bashing without any actual points being made and plain propaganda won't, will be edited or plain deleted and no arguments and crying foul when done so, total discrection of the mods. Similar threads on same topics will bunched up toghter or split vice versa and I can personaly do this in section I am mod only. Lets see how it goes

Deal ?

Sure dude.

If you don't like them move along. If you continue to whine, thread will either be locked or deleted

Forgot to mention that those "rules" don't apply to you Mr Moderator.

Oh, look mommy, I'm flexing my muscles.

shafique · Dec 04, 2010

I hate to step into the middle of this fight (my money is on Bora)

- but here's a long thread on the topic about what whether the Quran says it is ok to beat up one's wife or not:

philosophy-dubai/wife-beating-the-koran-split-from-politics-forum-t41127.html

..now back to the main bout..

Cheers,
Shafique

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