Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk

Maybe everyone should wear electric collars and if they find someone attractive they get a zap!

--- Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:29 pm ---

Next time I see a guy with nice muscles, I'm just going to walk right up to him and run my hands all over him. Its his fault!

^ Please get someone to film his reaction post it here.

Cheers,

Shafique

I wonder what the reaction would be? Any guesses?

Berrin wrote:Is that about only the face veil or outer garment as well?

The whole thing. That verse came for a sepecific situation that was happening in Madina, it is not a general directive. The logic can be extended to other similar situations, but that is a judgement call.

--- Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:34 am ---

I've a question: is it my fault if I flash my big fat wallet full of money in public and somebody steals it? I took it out in the market cpl of times, I did notice there were some eyes on it.

Rape is a form of theft. Only, you take away something that is much more precious than all the jewels together in the world. And something you can't get back ever. Rape can't be compared with material theft, that's ridiculous. It's much more than that. People who are blaming the rape-victim should be shunned by society.

^^ of course. Now back to my question: is it my fault or not (if somebody steals my money in that situation)?

Nucleus wrote:is it my fault or not (if somebody steals my money in that situation)?

Theft is a thieves fault
Murder is a murderers fault
Rape is a rapist fault (and you show the attitude of a rapist, meaning rape isn't the rapist's fault)

Nucleus is on a slippery slope towards justifying rape.

evitav wrote:Theft is a thieves fault

Wasn't difficult was it?

European wrote:Nucleus, do you think most Muslim men think like you? It would explain the cases of child rape that occur in my country by gangs of Muslim men.

huh? what this has to do with rape?

--- Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:10 am ---

European wrote:Is Nucleus saying that if women wear little or revealing clothing they deserve to be raped?

I'm not saying that, but responses do show prejudice. Or some people here just assume things.

European wrote:It would appear that you are saying that men can help themselves to anything on show.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I suppose you mean can't help themselves? Taking my analogy of my wallet, so if I show my fat wallet full of money, people can't help themselves and steal it? That is your opinion?

Nucleus wrote:Wasn't difficult was it?

Didn't know it would upset you.

evitav wrote:Didn't know it would upset you.

haha, another one

Whatever it is Nucleus, I'm sure we can talk about it.

Nucleus wrote:The whole thing. That verse came for a sepecific situation that was happening in Madina, it is not a general directive. The logic can be extended to other similar situations, but that is a judgement call.

I now see what you're saying, yes full body can be covered by ordinary one piece dress or suit that is loose and not transparent , but that would restrict ladies choice of fashion and versatility,so if they opt for wearing outer garment then that would give them freedom to dress any way they like inside(i.e sleeveless blouse,shorter skirt etc.). So I guess we can also say that surah 33:59 was released to protect the rights of women for choice in privacy with their mahram.

--- Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:32 am ---

evitav wrote:Rape can't be compared with material theft, that's ridiculous.

So you think you can behave all the men out in the world in certain modest way.. You have delusional admissions. Please keep telling yourselves that we all living along with deciving satans.. I did you give a link where quran explains the role of man and satan in this world..
But I have a question to you if you come across an atheist man who thinks that his only choice of women and pleasure is restricted to as many, an as much as what he gets in this world, legitimate or illegitimate (rape, assaults included) then Do you think you can ever stop him?, do you think he would have moral grounds for any modest behaviour?.. I mean to him there is no god ladies.., might as well he has all the freedom in the world while he can, there is no life after death, there is never gonna be a higher power questioning his motives and damages he gave in this world.. Just think about it eh? Damn it if a was a disbeliver I'd get out and rape women in every possible moment and in environment I could. LOL...
I mean to an atheist this life in this world must be all about maximizing pleasure while minimizing pain at all cost.. Wouldn't you agree with me, if he/she behaves contrary to this notion then he/she is loosing out in full scale as it is to their disadvantage right?

Berrin wrote:I now see what you're saying, yes full body can be covered by ordinary one piece dress or suit that is loose and not transparent , but that would restrict ladies choice of fashion and versatility,so if they opt for wearing outer garment then that would give them freedom to dress any way they like inside(i.e sleeveless blouse,shorter skirt etc.). So I guess we can also say that surah 33:59 was released to protect the rights of women for choice in privacy with their mahram.

That is not what I'm saying. Verse is not exactly about what to wear. I'll explain it later, if I can.

please...

--- Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:01 pm ---

kanelli wrote:Berrin, it is nice to know that you feel that millions of men just can't help themselves to behave around women and that it is their natural instinct to se.xually harass women.

:) with exception of men who are pious and have taqwa http://islamicinsights.com/religion/rel ... taqwa.html

kanelli wrote:I am often finding men in public attractive. Maybe I should start se.xually harassing them? They'd deserve it, because it is their fault that I found them attractive.

If you are an atheist I think you should, go on lady, go and get them as many as you could please, if he too is an atheist then it is double bingo don forget your only chance of pleasure is what you have here in this world, you don't even know if you're gonna last until tomorrow, so go out now, start hunting and never stop, will you!

So the truth hurts our atheists.. hmmmm I see..

Berrin wrote: If you are an atheist I think you should, go on lady, go and get them as many as you could please, if he too is an atheist then it is double bingo don forget your only chance of pleasure is what you have here in this world, you don't even know if you're gonna last until tomorrow, so go out now, start hunting and never stop, will you!

That is rude.

Nucleus wrote:That is rudeo

Don't worry bro, I know what I am doing. Sometimes if you try to be polite by caring too much of political correctness, you can get nowhere, explaining the same thing in different forms each time,only to get back to square one again. So sometimes it's good to be bold to pinpoint truth in the realm of the two belief systems.(i.e. belief(islam) and disbelief(atheism). I am trying to add sense of humor as much as I could while english being my foreign language:). and I admit that it is diffucult in another language:)

Imagine this scenario - Some women run around and drug good looking men and anally rape them. It would be their fault because they tempted women to do it, right? When the men go to the police station to report the crime, the police can ask, "Are you married?" "What were you doing out in public by yourself?" "What were you wearing?"

Berrin, what does atheism have to do with this?

And by the way, I'm an atheist who doesn't cover all of my skin and I have only ever slept with my husband. I know of a couple of Muslim ladies who wear an abaya and headscarf who had anal and oral se.x with men they were interested in. I even know one who was pregnant out of wedlock but has no child now... Does clothing really determine who is more virtuous?

kanelli wrote:Imagine this scenario - Some women run around and drug good looking men and anally rape them. It would be their fault because they tempted women to do it, right?

No it won't be their fault.

As for my wallet analogy I'll make it simple.
(1) If I openly display it with lots of money in it and somebody grabs it and steals it. Theft is still a crime and should be punished accordingly; it is not my fault but would be considered stupid display it that way if there were chances of somebody stealing it.

(2) Most people are not theifs, and won't steal it but probably there might be few. Not displaying it so openly is just being careful. Depends from place to place, in Dubai it may not get grabbed and stolen, but in Congo, I would probably get killed.

(3) Being careful and a theif stealing the wallet are essentially two separate issues, but most people mix them up since most people expect a person to be careful. For example, if somebody leaves keys in the car and it gets stolen, some people in even blame the person for leaving keys in the car, but it doesn't make it less of a crime.

Any disagreement there?

--- Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:18 pm ---

kanelli wrote:Does clothing really determine who is more virtuous?

Clothing doesn't but if somebody is dressed like a hoochie what would most people think?

USA has one of the highest rates of rapes, why is that?

--- Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:23 pm ---

European wrote:You appear to be saying that if you show your wallet full of money, expect to have it stolen.

Is that correct?

No.

--- Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:44 pm ---

Berrin wrote:Don't worry bro, I know what I am doing.

To be frank, I see it as unbecoming.

kanelli wrote:Imagine this scenario - Some women run around and drug good looking men and anally rape them.

This is not really rape this is torture without limits with the help of crime substance,.. a woman cannot rape a man,and your scenario has nothing to do with conventional rape where a woman victim is specifically chosen for bodily pleasure of man.

kanelli wrote:Berrin, what does atheism have to do with this?

Well one can only commit such crime if fears no authority either in this or the next world. Besides this, while a comitted believer would prevent him/herself from all sorts of bad behaviour due to responsibility, atheists on the other hand may fear nothing at all since they'd recognise no authority over themselves as they have very limited time and sources in this world.

kanelli wrote:And by the way, I'm an atheist who doesn't cover all of my skin and I have only ever slept with my husband.

fine, I am not saying atheists cannot stick to moral standards, there are many of them who are better then so called pious people but what I am saying is that without the religion atheists have no grounds/rationality to explain their morality in this world as their time and money is limited for what they can do before they die. Do you see my point of view?

kanelli wrote:Does clothing really determine who is more virtuous?

No it doesn't, what I can say is that other then it is being the order of Allah, it also helps protection against some people that may have intentions to hurt you,... clothing does not necessarily explain that whoever dresses modest is a pious person with taqwa... You can be conservative but not strictly following the principles/binding duties of religion.

--- Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:16 pm ---

Nucleus wrote:To be frank, I see it as unbecoming.

I do not accept your alteration. I accept the fact that I am a fruitcake. Then all I can say is that you tell me why you like or hate the taste so that I can improve it next time.. But this is a forum where people debate, you should be prepared both for bad and good taste..

Berrin wrote:please...

Hypocrites used to harass muslim women (maybe on purpose) and when brought to questioning they used to say something along the lines that they thought they were prostitutes. To shut them up and make a clear distinction this verse was revealed. Next verse gives little more background:
If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who spread false news among the people in Al-Madinah, cease not, We shall certainly let you overpower them, then they will not be able to stay in it as your neighbours but a little while.[Quran 33:60]

--- Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:20 pm ---

Berrin wrote:I do not accept your alteration. I accept the fact that I am a fruitcake.

Fruitcake was rude, I don't usually say such things. Unbecoming is more appropiate.

Berrin wrote: Then all I can say is that you tell me why you like or hate the taste so that I can improve it next time.

I told you it was rude, take a break, then come back and read what you wrote yourself. Maybe it will make you understand what I'm trying to say here. Or somebody else can explain it with better articulation.

And what has this verse got to do with our chatter and how do you think I am harassing ladies here. First according to your sample verse I am not talking to a believing lady here, on the contrary a disbelieving lady is trying make her argument while I debate her in the light of my understanding of religion. I myself can't see anything wrong in this, you have to be very specific so that I can see your point of view..

Berrin wrote:

Nucleus wrote:That is rudeo

Don't worry bro, I know what I am doing. Sometimes if you try to be polite by caring too much of political correctness, you can get nowhere, explaining the same thing in different forms each time,only to get back to square one again. So sometimes it's good to be bold to pinpoint truth in the realm of the two belief systems.(i.e. belief(islam) and disbelief(atheism). I am trying to add sense of humor as much as I could while english being my foreign language:). and I admit that it is diffucult in another language:)

Mmmmmm. Rantings are very familiar from a few months ago.

The money exchanging must be quite.

--- Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:41 pm ---

European wrote:Nucleus, It would appear that you are saying that men can help themselves to anything on show. That's very worrying. That would explain why Muslim men think they can help themselves to vunerable young white girls in my country.

Looking from a professional perspective, perhaps Nucs had an experience as a little boy that sticks firmly in his mind. This can often drive the individual to seek some sort of revenge with the weakest individual which in this case would be female.

This is not an alleged statement but only an analysis point of view.

Nucleus wrote:I told you it was rude, take a break, then come back and read what you wrote yourself.

Have you heard any of these in writing.... http://www.bookchums.com/blog-detail/wr ... /MjMx.html

Berrin wrote:And what has this verse got to do with our chatter and how do you think I am harassing ladies here.

I'm giving the histotical context of that verse, like I said verse isn't exactly about dress code but it is addressing specific situation created by the hypocrites at that time for muslim women.

Please go back and go through the posts again, see context of that post.

--- Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:54 pm ---

Berrin wrote:Have you heard any of these in writing....

Good luck with your humor, imo, it is not ideal in these kinds of discussions, but you are entitled to your opinion. I guess you fit right in with BM and co, although I had higher hopes for you.