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Ron Paul was apparently saying America's foreign policy is responsible for the creation of al-Qaeda and their intent to wage violent jihad - ignoring al-Qaeda's reliance on classical Muslim teachings of Jihad to explain their intent....

Ron Paul reiterated AQ talking points that America is being targeted because:

1) Infidel presence in Saudi Arabia (a religious issue)
2) Iraqi infant mortality following the sanctions - that has turned out to be bogus and the authors of the report have retracted their numbers
3) America's support for the non-Muslim state of Israel

Besides the fact AQ was formed before points 1 & 2 and AQ tried to massacre thousands of Americans in the '93 WTC bomb attack prior to the 1995 report claiming 500,000 Iraqi children died due to UN sanctions (as opposed to even more Kurdish children dying due to Iraqi government sanctions from the 80's and 70's), the question then becomes why aren't there any non-Muslim al-Qaeda groups?

Everything on AQ's talking points list can be extrapolated to non-Muslim nations or even Muslim nations but carried out by other world powers - such as the Soviet Union's support for the regimes in Syria, Cuba and Iraq, etc.

As to American foreign policy, I think SE Asia has been far worse off than the Arab world. So, should we expect transnational Buddhist religious extremist groups appearing anytime between the last thirty-five years and now?

If that simple formula results in the creation of AQ, why has it never been reproducible?

If by transnational you mean terrorists who target other countries - then yes, we have Jewish terror groups that have exported terrorists to other countries and who carried out religiously motivated terror attacks against unarmed civilians in a mosque - Baruch Goldstein was a member of the Jewish Defence League in the USA and then went and carried out a terror attack in Hebron, in occupied Palestine.

The French arm of the Kahanist Terror group (as defined by the US - as terrorists) are recruiting those with military experience to go to Palestine - today.

The Jewish Terrorist groups actually started modern day terror attacks - from the King David hotel bombing to booby trapping the bodies of British soldiers. These were mainly Eastern Europeans who had exported their Terror to the Middle East - people like Begin.

These are facts.

The hype is that the handful of terror attacks in Europe and USA are the main threat to Europe and USA - when the facts are that these are vastly outnumbered by home-grown terrorists, who are better armed and more bloodthirsty than all the numpties caught since 9/11.

But given that Americans love conspiracy theories - with reputable polls showing that almost half of Americans believing that Saddam was behind the 9/11 attack at one point - it shows that Ron Paul's kooky views will always find some willing adherents!

eh - with his beliefs in talking donkeys and his ever-morphing religious views appears to be one of the gullible many!

Cheers,
Shafique

facts over hype.

So what are these transnational religious extremists groups I should know about? Certainly there are going to be a few Buddhist terror groups, right?

Probably some Christians ones as well....But I'm not aware of any.

It's also interesting that Ron Paul would believe AQ's revisionist talking points when the facts show that AQ was formed and targeting the US before point #2 (and formed before point #1).

But then again, it's not like a majority of Americans believe in conspiracy theories that the WTC was attacked by the US government or Israelis. Can we say the same about Britain's Muslim population by any chance ???

Then again, there are certain 'British' Muslims who believe Muslim terrorists are less blood thirsty than pipe bombers and dumpster burners, so it's hardly a surprise to see conspiracy theories alive and well among the 'Brit' Muslim posters.

Kahanist Jewish Terror groups:

1. Religiously motivated terrorists
2. Are carrying out trans-national operations.

Questioned asked in thread title and OP, question answered.

Why are you still confused? Could it be because you refuse to condemn the American born terrorist Baruch Goldstein?

Cheers,
Shafique

If that simple formula results in the creation of AQ, why has it never been reproducible?

Nope. Not aware of any non-Muslim, transnational religious terrorist groups targeting the US or West.

Why is that?

It also would appear the example provided is weak to say the least. People with military backgrounds going to Israel hardly constitutes as terrorist activity.

But it's hardly surprising that people who can't address the questions would shift the goal posts.

eh - sometimes you do insist on saying stupid things.

You asked where the transnational religious terrorist groups were - and I gave you one group of terrorists who export their terrorism from the West to the East.

Baruch Goldstein was a white American religious terrorist and attacked the Palestinian worshippers in Hebron. That makes him trans-national.

The Terrorists like Goldstein's friends who bombed New York and Brievik who operate in the EU and US are by definition not 'transnational' but are 'home-grown' terrorists. And as the FBI and Europol stats show, these home grown terrorists are the ones carrying out 90+% of terrorist acts in the EU and USA.

Cheers,
Shafique

Oh, but you seen ratty boy was hoping how we could revel in some Islam bashing here and not actually talk about real stuff. Take a hint shaf ! Seriously sometimes you are so thick ! lol.

Doh!



Cheers,
Shafique

You asked where the transnational religious terrorist groups were

I asked:

If that simple formula results in the creation of AQ, why has it never been reproducible?

No Buddhist al-Qaeda. No Hindu al-Qaeda. No Christian al-Qaeda.

Your measly example doesn't meet the requirements I discussed.

There you go again, exposing your extremism.

Kahanist Terror groups are listed by your own government as terrorists - and have carried out Terrorist attacks on US soil (indeed, they've carried out MORE terror attacks - bombings and killings etc - than Muslim terrorists - as we saw in the FBI stats).

Baruch Goldsteins heinous attack on worshippers in Palestine was a trans-national attack.

But at least be honest - you didn't expect we'd be exposing your support for Jewish religious trans-national terrorists, would you?

Cheers,
Shafique

indeed, they've carried out MORE terror attacks... killings etc

Really? They've managed to kill more than Islamic terrorists? I'd like to see the evidence.

But since your group isn't what Ron Paul was referring to (and doesn't meet the criteria for this thread), I'm surprised (not really) you'd be mentioning them.

Oh what a short memory you have eh. But nice attempt at changing the goal posts - I said that the Jewish terrorists carried out more attacks in the USA than Muslim terrorists (and these included bombs and assassinations):

dubai-politics-talk/terrorism-the-the-facts-t41878-30.html

Cheers,
Shafique

So Jews have not killed more American citizens than Islamic terrorists?

How many American citizens in the US have been killed by Jews and Islamists, respectively?

Now, back to the thread, why isn't there a Buddhist/Hindu/Christian al-Qaeda?

Is Ron Paul wrong (yes)?

I'm glad we've cleared up the issue of the number of terrorist attacks carried out by Jewish (religiously motivated) terrorists in the USA is indeed greater than those carried out by Muslim terrorists.

You asked about other terrorist groups. Now that you're asking about how many they killed, I guess you've finally conceded that these groups exist. That's a great start, young one.

Now, explain to us again why you don't condemn Kahanist terrorists and view the term as racist? Have you taken this up with your own government?

Cheers,
Shafique

Why no Buddhist al-Qaeda? Surely there should be half a dozen or so?

What's the matter eh - are you embarrassed by the presence of the Jewish extremist terrorist Americans that you refuse to condemn?

It seems that along with the terrorist groups such as the Hutaree, the threat in America is far greater from Bible-believing terrorists than other religious groups. Them there are the facts.

Cheers,
Shafique

I'll wait for when Bible fundamentalists take down numerous commercial airliners.

Why no Buddhist al-Qaeda?

Oh, you mean like the Sikh terrorists did or the terrorists that are being comfort in Miami? I suppose you said 'commercial' so that you'd exclude US terrorist Joe Stack who flew a private plane into a Federal building only last year (and hence was the last suicide terrorist in the USA).

(Cuban terrorists, wanted by Venezuela and indeed Cuba, blew up a Cuban airliner and are in the US with full support of the State Department - and Sikhs also blew up an Indian airliner).

But hey, why let facts of actual terrorist attacks get in the way - eh?

Did you get round to confirming that the Jewish religious terrorists DID carry out more terror attacks in the US than Islamic terrorists?

Cheers,
Shafique

Oh, you mean like the Sikh terrorists

What's the name of this transnational Sikh religious fundamentalist movement that must number in the 100's-1000's and has members from around the world - US, Canada, Britain, India, Pakistan, etc. - clamoring to join the ranks of the Sikh Jihad (and that was formed as a result of US foreign policy (because otherwise Ron Paul would be wrong that anti-American terrorist groups are only formed as a result of US policy)?

Notice how I was referring to these Christian fundamentalist terrorist groups that are alleged to exist (but aren't nearly as active as the Muslim fanatics in the US who want to commit mass murder)?

Did you get round to confirming that the Jewish religious terrorists DID carry out more terror attacks in the US than Islamic terrorists?

What's the casualty count?

I see you're avoiding the difficult questions - are you trained to do this or is this something you were born to do?

Let's take some baby steps for you:
1. What were the reasons given for the WTC attack in 93 by the terrorists. (Hint: Letters were sent spelling out the reasons. Hint 2: They weren't religously motivated reasons)
2. In what way were the bombing of the airliners by Sikhs and Cubans not terrorist attacks for political reasons?
3. A simple 'yes, I can confirm that Jewish religious terrorists have indeed carried out more attacks than Muslim terrorists in the USA' would suffice. We know that you want to count fatalities because 9/11's one attack was so high a figure. (You haven't looked up what 'outlier' means have you. tut tut)

4. And let's get back to the core question in the thread - Kahanist Terror groups, listed by the US gov as terrorists, are a prime example of a trans-national terror organisation. As they started before Al Qaeda, you could say they are the trailblazers for terrorism in the USA.

If you are still confused over these facts, let me know and I'll clarify. If you want to change the subject - we can safely assume you have no comeback for these facts.

Cheers,
Shafique

LoL. Facts, schmacts.

Are you now trying to claim the al-Qaeda terrorists who bombed the WTC weren't religious extremists and members of an Islamic terrorist group whose end goal is the re-establishment of an Islamic theocratic state?

Wow.

Bringing up Cuban terrorists illustrates the entire point I'm making. They *AREN'T* religious fanatics carrying out violent acts in the name of religion unlike your coreligionists who eat and breathe religion - just like you.

Anyways, troll, the Cuban terrorists you're referring to didn't target the US so your mentioning them is IRRELEVANT to the question I'm asking regarding Ron Paul's comments.

It's funny when you're this dense that you instinctively change the parameters of the debate because your talking points don't cover all points of discussion.

Are you seriously this weak in debate that you can't stick to the topic of a subject cuz you have nothing to say?

3. A simple 'yes, I can confirm that Jewish religious terrorists have indeed carried out more attacks than Muslim terrorists in the USA' would suffice. We know that you want to count fatalities because 9/11's one attack was so high a figure. (You haven't looked up what 'outlier' means have you. tut tut)

A simple reminder that this is off topic is all I need. Please stop showcasing your stupidity and poor reading skills.

4. And let's get back to the core question in the thread - Kahanist Terror groups...blah blah blah

Grade A moron.

Unbelievable. People must get dumber just by virtue of being in your presence. I've never met anyone as dumb and puerile as you. Not even DDS is as dimwitted - and all he has are herp-a-derp, grammatically incorrect one liners.

Wow - see what happens when you present facts to a loon!

Let's just tackle point 1 - eh raised the motivation for the WTC attack in 93 in his OP. Let's see what the terrorists say the reason for the WTC attack in 93 was:

Yousef mailed letters to various New York newspapers just before the attack, in which he claimed he belonged to 'Liberation Army, Fifth Battalion'.

These letters made three demands:
1. an end to all US aid to Israel,
2. an end to US diplomatic relations with Israel,
3. and a demand for a pledge by the United States to end interference "with any of the Middle East countries' interior affairs."

He stated that the attack on the World Trade Center would be merely the first of such attacks if his demands were not met. In his letters Yousef admitted that the World Trade Center bombing was an act of terrorism, but this was justified because "the terrorism that Israel practices (which America supports) must be faced with a similar one."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World ... the_attack

Facts, not hype eh. Facts.

Seems pretty clear why the terrorist chose to attack the USA. The religion of the terrorist targets doesn't seem to be mentioned at all, but ONLY foreign policy of the US government.

Question number 2 is related - in what way are the Cuban terrorist attack on a commercial airliner different from that above.. imagining that the above is because they are 'religious fanatics' and that makes them different exposes the fundamental flaw in your views.

Cheers,
Shafique

imagining that the above is because they are 'religious fanatics' and that makes them different exposes the fundamental flaw in your views.

Sorry, what does the Cuban terrorist attack against a country that isn't the US and that wasn't blamed on US foreign policy have to do with the OP's question discussing Ron Paul's comments about the US, foreign policy and the creation of religious, trans-national terror groups?

Let's just tackle point 1 - eh raised the motivation for the WTC attack in 93 in his OP. Let's see what the terrorists say the reason for the WTC attack in 93 was:

Yes, and this is what we're discussing based on the OP. How is Ramzi Yousef's letter confusing you?

Come, come young one. I said we'd take baby steps through your arguments.

You started by asking what the motivations for the 93 WTC bombings were in your OP. Let's confirm that the reasons given were indeed related to US foreign policy - i.e. political issues. You seemed to be labouring under the wrong notion that somehow it was for religious reasons.

We can then see how this is different from the Cuban terrorist attack on the airliner (where the terrorists are living safe and sound in the USA).

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:You started by asking what the motivations for the 93 WTC bombings were in your OP.

Really? Where? I simply mentioned point #2 was not a factor for AQ's attempt to murder thousands of Americans in the 93 WTC bombing:

event horizon wrote:AQ tried to massacre thousands of Americans in the '93 WTC bomb attack prior to the 1995 report claiming 500,000 Iraqi children died due to UN sanctions

Before that I observed that AQ was formed before points 1 & 2. Something anyone with basic reading comprehension should have figured out.

But go ahead, enlighten me, where did I ask for the motivation for 93 WTC bombings in the OP?

Baby steps, baby steps, young one.

Do we agree that WTC 93 was because of US foreign policy or not?

Yes or no?

If yes, then where is all this 'it was religously motivated' come from when comparing this politically motivated attack with those carried out by Cuban exiles living in the USA when they launched their trans-national terror attack on an airliner?

Cheers,
Shafique

Sorry, didn't quite catch that, what happened to my previous question asking for the motivations for the 93 WTC attack?

You said I asked:

shafique wrote:You started by asking what the motivations for the 93 WTC bombings were in your OP.

Where?

Why can't you simply answer the question - are we now agreed that the WTC 93 attacks were politically motivated - and the reasons were US foreign policy?

A simple yes will do.

Cheers,
Shafique

Why can't YOU answer where I asked for the motivations of the 93 WTC bombings in the OP?

I've been asking this for the past four posts now.

Now, come on - are we now agreed that the WTC 93 were politically motivated and based on US foreign policy?

A simple yes will suffice.

In your opening paragraph you link AQ attacks to Islamic teachings, and then go on to list WTC 93 as an attack.

Your premise is therefore fundamentally flawed. Are we agreed?

Cheers,
Shafique