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Outrage as vicar urges women to submit to husbandsCongregation finds sermon more in keeping with 'dark ages'

A vicar has caused outrage among his congregation after urging women to "be silent" and "submit" to their husbands.


Angus MacLeay, rector of St Nicholas Church in Sevenoaks, Kent, made the comments, which some parishioners thought were more in keeping with a sermon from the dark ages than the modern Church of England, in a leaflet entitled "The Role of Women in the Local Church".

In it, he said women should "not speak" if asked a question that could be answered by their husbands and should "submit to their husbands in everything".

Using Bible references to justify his comments, he wrote: "Wives are to submit to their husbands in everything in recognition of the fact that husbands are head of the family as Christ is head of the church.

"This is the way God has ordered their relationships with each other."

In another passage, which appeared under the heading "More Difficult ­Passages to Consider", he continued: "It would seem that women should remain silent … if questions could legitimately be answered by their husbands."

But MacLeay's words were too difficult to swallow for the dozens of women who cancelled direct debit subscriptions to the Anglican church and vowed not to return.

On Sunday, the curate at St Nicholas delivered a sermon entitled "Marriage and Women" which also urged women to submit to their husbands.

Reverend Mark Oden blamed the "modern woman" for high divorce rates and told the congregation: "We know ­marriage is not working. We only need to look at figures … Wives, submit to your own husbands."

Despite the anger and offence caused, Oden stood by his comments. "I did not set out to unnecessarily offend people, but I stand by what God has said in his word, the Bible," he said.

One female member of the church said she was "disgusted" by Oden's sermon. "How can they talk that way in the 21st century? No wonder the church is losing touch if this is the kind of gobbledegook they want us to believe. I will not be going back to that church and will have to seriously consider my faith if this is the nonsense they are spouting now," she said.

Another member said: "What kind of medieval sermon is that? We are not in the 15th century."

The words may also shock Dr Rowan Williams, head of the Church of England, who holds progressive views.

Rev Mark Oden defiant on call for wives to be ‘submissive’

[Following caption is given below a photo of the two]
Rev. Angus MacLeay, left, and Curate Mark Oden, who did not want his wife to be interviewed about his comments

\A clergyman who sparked a row by calling on wives to be submissive and claiming that modern marriage was in crisis has refused to back down.

After a defiant service at his church in Kent, the Rev Mark Oden claimed that he had received numerous letters backing his opinion, a view that he admitted some people would see as “medieval”.

Two weeks ago the curate delivered a controversial sermon at St Nicholas’s Church in Sevenoaks in which he triggered outrage by partly blaming the high divorce rate on women no longer submitting to their husbands.

“Whatever we do, it [modern marriage] is not working,” he had said. “The Bible’s claim is that God invented marriage. Marriage was God’s idea. God knows how it works.”

Many members of the congregation closed ranks in support of the curate after a follow-up sermon yesterday entitled “Marriage MoT”, in which he admitted that his teachings “might not be palatable” but “we need to hear them.”

Mr Oden, 35, a former Royal Marine commando who is married with three young daughters, has been at the church since his ordination a year ago. He told The Times that no one had approached him directly with their concerns.
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A full reading of the New Testament would show that women can be apostles and speak in church, have their own opinions, etc.

shafique wrote:Well, given I agree with you - I guess we'll both have to argue with Kung then.

Is 'garden of England' - Kent thinking of implementing Shariah law anytime soon and allowing wife beating? Do you see Mooslims everywhere eh - or is it like an instinctive reaction every time someone preaches from the Bible and you are embarrassed by what the Bible says?

But let me check - surely you're not arguing that the Bible should be followed in this case? You surely agree with me that the Priests should not go around quoting the Bible so!

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Eh - you need to get over there and tell the good vicar he should ignore these verses!

“Whatever we do, it [modern marriage] is not working,” he had said. “The Bible’s claim is that God invented marriage. Marriage was God’s idea. God knows how it works.”

shafique wrote:RG - thanks for highlighting the problem

God is talking about replacing previous scriptures

But, back to the Bible and these vicars. 'Women, know your place' and submit to your husbands - pretty clear message. The women of Kent didn't like it though - and as eh says, pretty unconventional to go round quoting the Bible in Church!!

So, eh, thanks for admitting that your only option was to change the subject after admitting that the Vicars were correctly quoting the Bible (that women should submit to their husbands, not speak in church)- but that they should have focussed on the contradictory verses which imply women could speak in church.

event horizon wrote:Hey, I agree with you that your interpretation of the New Testament is at odds with what the New Testament really says.

event horizon wrote:But yes, the vicar should study the New Testament more to fully understand its passages.