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Flying Dutchman wrote:Fact remains, you couldn't have done what Mr. Schuringa did. You are incapable of that.

kanelli wrote:If you haven't met Shaf, how do you know if he's plump or not? It was an American airline, likely most of the passengers were too plump to do anything . If most of the passengers were Europeans they were likely too drunk to do anything. So yes, thankfully the fit and sober Dutch guy was able to save the day! However, if the bomber was more skilled, the Dutch guy would likely have been blown to bits mid-pounce. Still a hero for trying though!

shafique wrote:^Yes, they would have shouted Allahu Akbar after they'd stopped the incompetent bomber.


Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:The young guy is definitely a terrorist.

The point was exactly that in Afganistan, Iraq and indeed Pakistan they know how to make IEDs - and that in Europe the right-wing terrorists just need Google to help them make bombs. Surely if the loons were right about the extent of the real threat, we'd see more Muslim Brieviks than the Muslm numpties.

kanelli wrote:THE YOUNG GUY IS DEFINITELY A TERRORIST. How much more explicit can Shaf be? He has not stated any support or excuses for the terrorist at all.

shafique wrote:The young guy is definitely a terrorist.

The point was exactly that in Afganistan, Iraq and indeed Pakistan they know how to make IEDs - and that in Europe the right-wing terrorists just need Google to help them make bombs. Surely if the loons were right about the extent of the real threat, we'd see more Muslim Brieviks than the Muslm numpties.

shafique wrote:Where do I acknowledge the terrorist is a terrorist?

How about in the first sentence in my reply to you below:

shafique wrote:The young guy is definitely a terrorist.

The point was exactly that in Afganistan, Iraq and indeed Pakistan they know how to make IEDs - and that in Europe the right-wing terrorists just need Google to help them make bombs. Surely if the loons were right about the extent of the real threat, we'd see more Muslim Brieviks than the Muslm numpties.

(I posted this in this thread.. look back)

Cheers,
Shafique

kanelli wrote:THE YOUNG GUY IS DEFINITELY A TERRORIST. How much more explicit can Shaf be? He has not stated any support or excuses for the terrorist at all.

shafique wrote:I totally agree BM and benwj - but thank goodness he was such a doofus. He seems to have come from a good family in Nigeria - and the Nigerians I spoke to there were horrified that this had happened.

And yes, given that he'd got the explosives on board - what's with setting your crotch on fire?

What's puzzling is that there's no shortage of explosives expertise out there - in Afghanistan and Iraq they are killing soldiers with IEDs, Brievik and his friends are managing to make explosives that work from instructions on the internet - so the lack of success from these wannabe jihadists is either they are from the very, very shallow end of the genepool or that somehow Al Qaeda operatives can't make bombs outside of the Middle East. (Remember the shoe bomber - same thing there as well!)

7/7, Madrid and 9/11 look like exceptions - but given the number of numpties out there, it's only a matter of time before some of them get lucky again.

gertrude wrote:So, what punishment would you recommend for a Muslim "numpty" caught in a terrorist attempt, a slap on the hand?

In August, 2001, the American television channel CBS aired an interview with a Hamas activist Muhammad Abu Wardeh, who recruited terrorists for suicide bombings in Israel. Abu Wardeh was quoted as saying: "I described to him how God would compensate the martyr for sacrificing his life for his land. If you become a martyr, God will give you 70 virgins, 70 wives and everlasting happiness." Wardeh was in fact shortchanging his recruits since the rewards in Paradise for martyrs was 72 virgins. But I am running ahead of things .

Since September 11, news stories have repeated the story of suicide bombers and their heavenly rewards, and equally Muslim scholars and Western apologists of Islam have repeated that suicide is forbidden in Islam. Suicide (qatlu nafsi-hi) is not referred to in the Koran but is indeed forbidden in the Traditions (Hadith in Arabic), which are the collected sayings and doings attributed to the Prophet and traced back to him through a series of putatively trustworthy witnesses. They include what was done in his presence that he did not forbid, and even the authoritative sayings and doings of his companions.

But the Hamas spokesman correctly uses the word martyr (shahid) and not suicide bomber, since those who blow themselves up almost daily in Israel and those who died on September 11 were dying in the noblest of all causes, Jihad, which is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Koran and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined for the purpose of advancing Islam. While suicide is forbidden, martyrdom is everywhere praised, welcomed, and urged: "By the Being in Whose Hand is my life, I love that I should be killed in the way of Allah; then I should be brought back to life and be killed again in His way..."; "The Prophet said, 'Nobody who enters Paradise will ever like to return to this world even if he were offered everything, except the martyr who will desire to return to this world and be killed 10 times for the sake of the great honour that has been bestowed upon him'." [Sahih Muslim, chapters 781, 782, The Merit of Jihad and the Merit of Martyrdom.]

What of the rewards in paradise? The Islamic paradise is described in great sensual detail in the Koran and the Traditions; for instance, Koran sura 56 verses 12 -40 ; sura 55 verses 54-56 ; sura 76 verses 12-22. I shall quote the celebrated Penguin translation by NJ Dawood of sura 56 verses 12- 39: "They shall recline on jewelled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine (that will neither pain their heads nor take away their reason); with fruits of their own choice and flesh of fowls that they relish. And theirs shall be the dark-eyed houris, chaste as hidden pearls: a guerdon for their deeds... We created the houris and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand..."

One should note that most translations, even those by Muslims themselves such as A Yusuf Ali, and the British Muslim Marmaduke Pickthall, translate the Arabic (plural) word Abkarun as virgins, as do well-known lexicons such the one by John Penrice. I emphasise this fact since many pudic and embarrassed Muslims claim there has been a mistranslation, that "virgins" should be replaced by "angels". In sura 55 verses 72-74, Dawood translates the Arabic word " hur " as "virgins", and the context makes clear that virgin is the appropriate translation: "Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents (which of your Lord's blessings would you deny?) whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched before." The word hur occurs four times in the Koran and is usually translated as a "maiden with dark eyes".

shafique wrote:(Remember the shoe bomber - same thing there as well!)

shafique wrote:Sometimes numpties get lucky (and we're all out of luck then) - but in the EU and USA the successful terrorists are largely 'white guys' as you put it.

According to this data, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism within the United States than Islamic (7% vs 6%). These radical Jews committed acts of terrorism in the name of their religion. These were not terrorists who happened to be Jews; rather, they were extremist Jews who committed acts of terrorism based on their religious passions, just like Al-Qaeda and company.

Perception is not reality. Due to the right wing’s influence and propaganda, people mistakenly think that
Islamic terrorism is the greatest threat to the Western world. It is even a commonly held belief that Islamic terrorism poses an existential threat–that the very survival of the Western world is at stake. Of course, the reality is that there are other groups that engage in terrorism on a much larger scale, yet these terrorist incidents are minimized. Acts of terrorism committed by Muslims are purposefully sensationalized and focused upon, culminating in the idea that “(nearly) all terrorists are Muslims.”