Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk

muslimbangladeshi wrote: one Bengali pilot/ace had shot down many "Israeli" planes, in fact, if you consider the record of Pakistani (which included today's Bangladeshi) pilots Vs "Israeli" ones, Pakistan lost none of its fighters against them while killing many.

Many... How many? Is there any proof among naratives transfered from a father to a son during last 100 years?

The fact is Israel won during 6 !!! days. If there had been no thread from SU they would've distroyed all Egyptian army with their allies...

They are strong but you are weak... It's the fact...

Red Chief wrote:

muslimbangladeshi wrote: one Bengali pilot/ace had shot down many "Israeli" planes, in fact, if you consider the record of Pakistani (which included today's Bangladeshi) pilots Vs "Israeli" ones, Pakistan lost none of its fighters against them while killing many.

Many... How many? Is there any proof among naratives transfered from a father to a son during last 100 years?

The fact is Israel won during 6 !!! days. If there had been no thread from SU they would've distroyed all Egyptian army with their allies...

They are strong but you are weak... It's the fact...

The numbers can be disputed as "Israel" will hardly want to accede it had lost. "Israel" won during 6 days against secular regimes, and you stating this perhaps strengthens my point further - that it was and is only Islamic countries that can perhaps liberate the occupied people, never puppet or secular regimes that betrayed their mandates.

Had there been no United States, today there won't be any "Israel" to speak of, and neither this thread nor this discussion. Even on this issue of Zionist wanton aggression on innocent civilians backed by the West, mostly USA, the UN wanted to pass a resolution which was vetoed by the USA, as always.

"Israel" is "strong"















in accepting donation from USA. Without it, it's no more than a tinpot militia led by radicals.

Look up Saiful Azam against "Israel" air force, if you doubt my statement.

muslimbangladeshi wrote:Without direct and indirect American aid, "Israeli" economy, military and politics would have been long dead

Wrong. Also, it stands to no comparison of what Pakistan gets for example from the US.

Can you name a few systems that "Israel" indigenously developed? All I can see is only American donation.

Are you ignorant or just joking?

Flying Dutchman wrote:

muslimbangladeshi wrote:Without direct and indirect American aid, "Israeli" economy, military and politics would have been long dead

Wrong. Also, it stands to no comparison of what Pakistan gets for example from the US.

Wrong. It is the largest direct recipient of military and economic aid from the USA, not to mention many indirect aid a lot of which escapes the 'scanner' due to influential Zionist lobby groups like AIPAC in the USA, not to mention stranglehold of Zionists in US banking, financial, media and political sector.

Can you name a few systems that "Israel" indigenously developed? All I can see is only American donation.

Are you ignorant or just joking?

Can you answer the question?

muslimbangladeshi wrote:Wrong. It is the largest direct recipient of military and economic aid from the USA, not to mention many indirect aid a lot of which escapes the 'scanner' due to influential Zionist lobby groups like AIPAC in the USA, not to mention stranglehold of Zionists in US banking, financial, media and political sector.

Ah, spoken as a true antisemite.

Can you answer the question?

Look it up man. Israel produces and develops a lot of weapons itself and sells them also for example to Russia and China.

Flying Dutchman wrote:Ah, spoken as a true antisemite.

Ah, spoken as a true ignoramus.

What does antisemitism have to do with facts? If I state "Israel" is a tiny country, will that be anti-semitism? If I state,"Israel"'s GDP is smaller than UAE's, will that be anti-semitism? They are facts!

Moreover Arabs are a larger semitic group than Jews. You spoke like a true ignoramus.

Can you answer the question?

Look it up man. Israel produces and develops a lot of weapons itself and sells them also for example to Russia and China.

Good way to evade the question. As stated they are all Amerikan donations.

Flying Dutchman wrote: Israel produces and develops a lot of weapons itself and sells them also for example to Russia.

Which one did they sell out, sorry for my ignorance?

You know, it's really not hard to find info - there's this thing called the internet, with a wonderful facility called google!

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... dustry.htm

You know there is this wonderful facility called the google on the internet, where you can find all sorts of drivel from demented youngsters to loony europeans tirading against all and sundry, and clogging up bandwidth with useless made up 'info' that no specialist or well informed person will take a second look at.

Red Chief wrote:

Flying Dutchman wrote: Israel produces and develops a lot of weapons itself and sells them also for example to Russia.

Which one did they sell out, sorry for my ignorance?

Mainly UAVs.

OMG - just goes to show how naive and dumb you really are!

Whatever! Carry on in your deluded little world!

muslimbangladeshi wrote:Good way to evade the question. As stated they are all Amerikan donations.

I will start with a few, tell me if you want more or have problems working the Google machine.

Uzi
Dror
Galil
Merkava tank
Iron Dome
IAI UAV
EROS satelittes

And tell me your facts about "stranglehold of Zionists in US banking, financial, media and political sector."

muslimbangladeshi wrote:You know there is this wonderful facility called the google on the internet, where you can find all sorts of drivel from demented youngsters to loony europeans tirading against all and sundry, and clogging up bandwidth with useless made up 'info' that no specialist or well informed person will take a second look at.

Blinded with hatred!

Pointless dude! We're all wrong and he's right! Because he knows everything about everything, even when it's there in black and white in front of his nose stating facts to the contrary!

Flying Dutchman wrote:

muslimbangladeshi wrote:Good way to evade the question. As stated they are all Amerikan donations.

I will start with a few, tell me if you want more or have problems working the Google machine.

Uzi

Based on earlier Czech design. Not the first nor the last submachine guns.

Dror

Common Jewish name, one Dror was shot down by PAF. Which one are you talking about?

Galil

Small arms are not invented by "Israel" they were in operation long before Zionists even dreamt of this menace called "Israel".

Merkava tank

Proved its effectiveness despite Western media hype against Hezbollah

Iron Dome

A total failure admitted by the Zionists themselves. Check Haaretz report.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/956859.html

IAI UAV

Which one you are talking about? Any tiny nation can and does manufacture UAV. I think at least 30 other nations that manufacture a UAV. It's not necessarily a sign of advancement or indigenous effort, nor financial capability to survive without American aid in all forms.

EROS satelittes

Again most third world countries have a satellite or two. Fact is they needed to be launched by Russia.

And tell me your facts about "stranglehold of Zionists in US banking, financial, media and political sector."

AIPAC for a start.

Moreover all of the weapons you included were developed with American aid, cooperation, transfer of technology etc, not only that many of them failed, most are copies of other systems.

Flying Dutchman wrote:

Red Chief wrote:

Flying Dutchman wrote: Israel produces and develops a lot of weapons itself and sells them also for example to Russia.

Which one did they sell out, sorry for my ignorance?

Mainly UAVs.

I listened that gossip. I thought you have some new one...

If there had been no England, there would be no Israel, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. If there had been no Muhammed there would have been no Pakistan and Bangladesh either, Iran would be Zoroastrian, and Indonesia Hindu. If there had been no Hitler, there may not have been an Israel.

Oh the lovely what ifs.......

puppypup wrote:If there had been no England, there would be no Israel, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. If there had been no Muhammed there would have been no Pakistan and Bangladesh either, Iran would be Zoroastrian, and Indonesia Hindu. If there had been no Hitler, there may not have been an Israel.

Oh the lovely what ifs.......

Even if there had been England, had some people not betrayed their oath, their loyalty to the Sultans, or to the Mughal rulers, Hind would have been under Mughal rule. No need for Pakistan or Bangladesh then. Moreover, unlike Pakistan which was carved out by the British, Bangladesh won its own independence from Pakistan.

Iran wouldn't have been Zoroastrian as we dont know how God has deigned things should happen. Zoroastrianism may also not have started in Iran too if it had not been for Zoroaster.

If not for Indians spreading their views, parts of Indonesia would never be Hindu either.

Point is, England is the cause of the trouble. Not what would happen if such and such had happened, but what is the cause of an event, this misery that this thread is about. On the same note, if not for USA political maneuvering, and all forms of aid to Zionists, the problem would be long over in all likelihoods.

muslimbangladeshi wrote:

puppypup wrote:If there had been no England, there would be no Israel, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. If there had been no Muhammed there would have been no Pakistan and Bangladesh either, Iran would be Zoroastrian, and Indonesia Hindu. If there had been no Hitler, there may not have been an Israel.

Oh the lovely what ifs.......

Even if there had been England, had some people not betrayed their oath, their loyalty to the Sultans, or to the Mughal rulers, Hind would have been under Mughal rule. No need for Pakistan or Bangladesh then. Moreover, unlike Pakistan which was carved out by the British, Bangladesh won its own independence from Pakistan.

Iran wouldn't have been Zoroastrian as we dont know how God has deigned things should happen. Zoroastrianism may also not have started in Iran too if it had not been for Zoroaster.

If not for Indians spreading their views, parts of Indonesia would never be Hindu either.

Point is, England is the cause of the trouble. Not what would happen if such and such had happened, but what is the cause of an event, this misery that this thread is about. On the same note, if not for USA political maneuvering, and all forms of aid to Zionists, the problem would be long over in all likelihoods.

Sorry buddy,

England is NOT the cause of the trouble. If it was not for us, you would not be communicating on this forum in ENGLISH, a launguage you have obviously been taught in an EDUCATION system. Something that you were probably LEGALLY required to do....all things brought to your country by England.

Without us matey you would still be killing each other with spears, communicating with 2 baked bean cans and a piece of string...in feckin GERMAN !!!

Stop being so damned up yer own arse about being Bangladeshi and read the history of your own damned country! You were given independence as a Muslim state (Eastern Pakistan) however had to fight against Pakistan under Pandit Nerhu and India to retain that independence.

I remember seeing the graphic black and white photographs by Don McCullin taken during your independence war, of Indian prisoners of war being publicly bayonetted by Muslim Bangladeshi soldiers!

Get off your high horse and get some learning!



Knight

If it weren't for the Jews there would be no Muslims and no Bangledeshis and Pakistanis. If it weren't for that caveman there wouldn't be.......

Whilst in Saudi Arabia, I was doing a TV show with the Minister of Islamic Affairs for the Kingdom. This is a very senior Islamic scholar who was a highly educated and intelligent man.

During our discussion before going on air, I asked him several questions:

Q. Was The Prophet Mohammed actually the founder of Islam?
A. Technically yes, however Allah always existed, he just used The Prophet Mohammed to interpret His word for man.

Q. So before he became the interpreter, he could not actually be Muslim as it didn't exist until then?
A. Yes

Q. So what religion was he before that?
A. Ah....er...this is a difficult question...

Q. How is it difficult? He must have been brought up in a religious environment?
A. Actually he was raised as a Coptic Christian!

Q. So he would have been exposed to the Bible then, the early unabridged version?
A. Yes, he would have learned it by hearing it told to him as he could not read or write.

Q. Have you read the Bible yourself?
A. Yes, I studied it at University as part of my overall religious education.

Q. So do you not find the similarities between the stories, parables and tales told in the Kor'an and those in the Bible to be more than a matter of chance?
A. Allah told The Prophet Mohammed these stories as they are a part of His word to man. Obviously they have similar origins.

Q. But surely these tales are about Jewish people in Palestine, not Christians, not Muslims because Christianity only came into being after the 'prophet' Jesus and Islam only came into existence after the Prophet Mohammed? So Islam is only in existence because of the Jews?
A. Er...if you look at it this way, yes.

Q. So how can you deny the existence of Israel, the Jewish homeland, which is actually Palestine as defined in the Bible, when your religion and your Kor'an is actually based directly on Judaiism?
A. We have no problem with the Jewish religion, only with the state of Israel.

Q. Why? The Jews have a legitimate claim to it by your own admission!

I never got an answer to that!

The political reasons given for the hatred of Israel are non defensible in a theological argument. They are purely ones of petty jealousy, bigotry political chicanery and anti semitism.

Anyone who wants to give me a SOUND argument can take it to the Philosophy and Religion Forum. I would be interested to hear open, fair debate from both sides without any jingoiistic tub thumping. Don't just spurt peurile religious hatred and dogma as I will ignore it!



Knight

There are seemed to be few people in this forum fully knew that what Israel has been doing to the Palestinians is wrong, inhumane and unjustifiable. Please, stop calling those people who have the courage to stand up and speak against injustice anti-Jewish. The world all over has come to the realization of the Palestinians’ plight, and they are now starting to dig deep below the surface to understand the truth, they knew the Media tend to distort facts, and they cannot be relied upon.

One of my majors at the University was Media Studies, so I know how they operate. Interestingly enough, I’ve been watching the media in few Western countries, and all what I’ve seen and heard is the Israeli’s point of views, and their PR practitioners putting out some sneaky statements and reasons to why they have been killing close to 400 innocent Palestinians so far.

I’ve never heard from these media why some of the Palestinians have been fire their homemade rockets, or why they have been resisting. They don’t like to report that fact that, these people’s lands are under occupation, and they have been deprived and starved under the hand of Israel’s government, which has resulted to these people to resist and fight back.
The truth is that, as long as Israel is protected by the superpower's umbrella it remains deaf to all humanitarian pleas. In truth, thanks to the unconditional support of the US, Israel is the sole country on earth that is a law unto itself. It ignores the Fourth Geneva Convention, which disallows collective punishment and demands an occupying power must provide for the people it occupies, with impunity. It maintains a massive nuclear arsenal under a globally-recognised policy of nuclear ambiguity specific to Israel. In answer to those who dare to criticise it hides behind disingenuous shrieks of anti-Semitism.
Look, the solution is very simple than what you’d imagine. If Israel is genuinely wants peace, then it could says to the Palestinians, here is your lands back, and let us leave peacefully in our lands too – it’s that simple to achieve peace, it’s incredibly what is needed for peace. Israel has brushed aside all the fair peace-resolutions which have been presented to it, the last one was by the French President. Now, you tell me if Israel truly seeks a lasting peace, why it can’t accept something like that, huh.

This conflict is the major creation of hatred toward the US as they have been seen throughout the world 100 % behind Israel whether if it’s wrong or right. Also hatred toward the Jewish people, as they are seems to be greedy, and self-centred at the expense of so many Americans whom in fact hate injustice.

Personally, I just cannot comprehend an impoverished, hungry population whose only weapons are stones and homemade rockets, are being heartlessly massacred by the fourth most powerful army on earth. I thought we pride ourselves as having evolved beyond the cruel level of survival of the fittest. I am honestly embarrassed to be a member of the human race.

Finally, please, stick to the topic and try to make a moral stand or at least have unprejudiced opinions input. Let’s not demean the Jewish people or the Palestinian people, let’s say something that’s just, intelligent and constructive in the hope that it might help others to open up their narrow/ignorant minds and realize peace is achievable if the right thing has been done.


Peace/Love

Knight, my friend. Your input has been educational.

All Muslims knew that the closest religion to Islam is the Jewish one. They are incredibly similar. So there is no dispute in there.

Arabs or Muslim in that matter don’t hate Jewish just because of their religion, no my friend. Jewish people throughout the Middle East are practicing their religion with no problem.

You have to understand, the hate that exist now toward the Jewish that live in Israel has stemmed from the conflict between Palestine and Israel – that’s all there is to it.

If there was no conflict there would be like brothers, really.

Peace/Love

There is never going to be an end to the conflict! It'll go on and on and on.

Humbleman wrote:Jewish people throughout the Middle East are practicing their religion with no problem.

Oh, that's a relief. I was worried about that.

Humbleman wrote: Please, stop calling those people who have the courage to stand up and speak against injustice anti-Jewish.

People who say Zionists control the US media and financial sector are antisemites. A lot of anti-Zionist sentiment originates from antisemtism. On the other hand anti-Zionists are indeed sometimes called wrongly antisemitists.
But when it comes to people who cannot stop talking about Israel and remain quite when it conerns other issues like Darfur or Congo, I cannot escape the thought they like picking on the Jews.

they have been killing close to 400 innocent Palestinians so far.

And on what do you base this conclusion?

It ignores the Fourth Geneva Convention, which disallows collective punishment

And sending thousands of rockets to Israeli urban concentrations isn´t?

If Israel is genuinely wants peace, then it could says to the Palestinians, here is your lands back

And what is Palestinian land?
Hamas says it doesn´t want to negotiate, it says it wants to destroy Israel and its clerics want to murder every Jew.

Dubai Knight wrote:Sorry buddy,

England is NOT the cause of the trouble. If it was not for us, you would not be communicating on this forum in ENGLISH, a launguage you have obviously been taught in an EDUCATION system. Something that you were probably LEGALLY required to do....all things brought to your country by England.

How convenient a lie or ignorance on show! Tell me really, are you just ignorant or a blatant liar? If you are ignorant of England's atrocities, I suggest you do what you advised to me - learn more. If you are not ignorant, but lying here, end of discussion with a liar.

Without us matey you would still be killing each other with spears, communicating with 2 baked bean cans and a piece of string...in feckin GERMAN !!!

False. Without Arab Islamic science Europeans including English would be having open intercourse and enjoying alcohol openly. Well they still do, but they learnt some science and technology along the way.

German was NEVER going to be the language in Bangladesh, and it isn't. Nor is English the language used in Bangladesh, so I suggest you act like you advise and read up before spouting inane comments.

Stop being so damned up yer own arse about being Bangladeshi and read the history of your own damned country! You were given independence as a Muslim state (Eastern Pakistan) however had to fight against Pakistan under Pandit Nerhu and India to retain that independence.

Take that advice up "yer own arse" and dont come back until you realize you are talking senselessly. Most of the world recognizes UK as the creator of the most troubles in last few centuries. You don't need to teach me the history of my own country because you know almost nothing about it and surely your post proves it, you probably googled a few one liners and remember a few newsflash/articles in your limey media.

Bangladesh never fought UNDER India, India helped Bangladesh to win against Pakistan, but it's convoluted political history that is not relevant to the thread. Apparently you have a penchant for diverting thread topics because you are either ignorant, a malevolent liar or mentally incapable of conducting logical conversations.

I remember seeing the graphic black and white photographs by Don McCullin taken during your independence war, of Indian prisoners of war being publicly bayonetted by Muslim Bangladeshi soldiers!

Like I mentioned, you just proved you know nothing about Bangladesh history. You just googled for a few one liners and remember bits and pieces from here and there, seen a newsflash or article in your limey media and try to preach knowledge about events that you have no effing clue about.

Get off your high horse and get some learning!



Knight

It'd be better if you see the fallacies you used, try to correct them and heed your own advice.

Moreover you need to keep the discussion relevant instead of babbling about Don Mcculum or whoever's photography sessions, or such irrelevant issues.

I hope you get the drift.

Now back to the topic.

puppypup wrote:If it weren't for the Jews there would be no Muslims and no Bangledeshis and Pakistanis. If it weren't for that caveman there wouldn't be.......

Come again.

Where did you pull that one from? There is no indication in any academic source in the world that supports your assertions, nor any other form of evidence to sustain your malevolent "wish-wash"

Dubai Knight wrote:Whilst in Saudi Arabia, I was doing a TV show with the Minister of Islamic Affairs for the Kingdom. This is a very senior Islamic scholar who was a highly educated and intelligent man.

During our discussion before going on air, I asked him several questions:

Q&A..
..

Knight

This is irrelevant, and should be discussed elsewhere like you suggested.

1. I'd like to ask, what proof do we have of your interview? Any video recordings? Who was the official in question? What was the language used for the interview?

2 "Israel" has no right to exist on Palestinian land. It could have been settled in Alaska, Siberia, Germany or whereever the locals never objected to it. The primary responsibility lies with the British for this mess.

3 Judaism and Zionism are not same. There are Jews against Zionism. Learn more before you spout more tripe, it'd do your credibility a lot of good.

4 Islam is NOT derived from Judaism, it is believed that the true message was delivered to many prophets and messengers. The first prophet was Adam (PBUH), the first man, and the last one and most respected messenger was Hazrat Muhammad (May peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Musa (AH)/Mosem, Issa (AH)/Jesus, Yusuf (AH) and many others were sent with the message from God.

5 Judaism is not the first nor last monotheistic religion, even if you look at the issue from a theological student's view point.

Flying Dutchman wrote:

Humbleman wrote: Please, stop calling those people who have the courage to stand up and speak against injustice anti-Jewish.

People who say Zionists control the US media and financial sector are antisemites. A lot of anti-Zionist sentiment originates from antisemtism. On the other hand anti-Zionists are indeed sometimes called wrongly antisemitists.
But when it comes to people who cannot stop talking about Israel and remain quite when it conerns other issues like Darfur or Congo, I cannot escape the thought they like picking on the Jews.

they have been killing close to 400 innocent Palestinians so far.

And on what do you base this conclusion?

It ignores the Fourth Geneva Convention, which disallows collective punishment

And sending thousands of rockets to Israeli urban concentrations isn´t?

If Israel is genuinely wants peace, then it could says to the Palestinians, here is your lands back

And what is Palestinian land?
Hamas says it doesn´t want to negotiate, it says it wants to destroy Israel and its clerics want to murder every Jew.

Humbleman brother, well articulated post with very good points. Justice and fairness should be and has to be the basis for all actions and all codes of action.

Flying Dutchman, are you a Jew? Just curious.

"Israel" could not have survived without Amerikan donation and aid in all forms. Even for this assault killing hundreds of Gazan civilians, the UN resolution was blocked by only the USA, using its veto. And this has been the historic pattern.

Quite rightly everybody knowledgable about this conflict blames USA for propping up "Israel". Now Hamas, AFAIK, never said "Kill Jews in Iran, kill all Jews, from as far apart places as Morocco, Russia, India, or China". Hamas wants removal of the illness, the tumour called "Israel", a fair call.

AIPAC is just one of the many influential Zionist lobby groups in the USA, the media, financial, political and banking stranglehold on Amerikan lives by Zionists is easy to see and factually accurate, for those interested.