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Morocanns in Holland donot like to give interviews much, but when they do, as can be also seen in the past, it is just jaw dropping.

http://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.depers.nl%2Fbinnenland%2F635370%2FHallo-provinciaaltje-Kassa-open.html

Who is to blame that Rachid and Jamal are on violent robbery trips? Exactly almost everybody (police, welfare, etc.), except themselves. They even have the gal, to blame the robbed! The great disconnect!

"If jewelers would cooperate better, it would be less violent"

Jamal seems to have a vision though: "when I know somebody has money, I shoot him in the leg. The money goes to going out, debts, fines, cars, a sniff of coke and whores".

So are you implying that all Moroccans in Holland are violent criminals?

The majority of Moroccans donot violently rob jewelers, but the majority of violent jewelers robberies is done by Moroccans. Concerning jewelery robbery, there is 20% chance to get caught, and 12% chance of a conviction.

Flying Dutchman wrote: majority of violent jewelers robberies is done by Moroccans.

Oh, dear - deja vu.

FD quoting stats about Dutch Moroccans doesn't augur well. Let's hope he checked the statistics this time round.

FD - can you show us the statistics that 50% or more of violent jewellry robberies in Holland are committed by Dutch Moroccans - numbers and period measured please, as well as source. (And also to put things in context, give us the total robberies and total robberies of jewellery stores that aren't violent - I suspect you've just selectively quoted a small part of the crime stats - probably taken from some anti-Muslim blog site)

Cheers,
Shafique

Ok FD, let's see if you can produce the stats. In any case, if I humoured you and took your word for it, what is your explanation for why Moroccans engage in violent jewellery theft?

kanelli wrote:Ok FD, let's see if you can produce the stats. In any case, if I humoured you and took your word for it, what is your explanation for why Moroccans engage in violent jewellery theft?

I'll post the mug shots later, can't do it now. Why Moroccans engage in violent jewellery theft? Because there is something wrong with their upbringing for starters.

What do you think is wrong with how Moroccans specifically are brought up?

You have all the mug shots of the robbers? Cool - can't be that many then. Don't forget the complete statistics for all robberies and robberies of jewellery stores that weren't violent.

I do hope that there were more than 2 robberies, otherwise it will be a bit too easy to calculate the %s!

Cheers,

Shafique

kanelli wrote:What do you think is wrong with how Moroccans specifically are brought up?

Lack of parental supervision for example.

I recall that the majority of prisoners in the Netherlands aren't Moroccan, and that crime rates were falling to an extent that prisons were being closed? Do I recall correctly FD?

The majority of non-Moroccan prisoners - are their parents also to blame for their crimes in your view? I do think that parental supervision is indeed important though - don't get me wrong.

If I have misremembered - please post the numbers and % of prisoners who are Dutch Moroccan. (But don't forget your stats and source on robberies)

Cheers,

Shafique

shafique wrote:are their parents also to blame for their crimes in your view?

The human paradox: we are not responsible how we are brought up, but we are responsible for ourselves as an adult.

shafique wrote:please post the numbers and % of prisoners who are Dutch

I'll check later, but I do know a third of youth prisons population is Moroccan.

So, Moroccan youth aren't supervised by their parents enough. Can you think of any possible reasons? Are Moroccans the only group to have lack of parental supervision?

Cool - I agree with the gist of your argument. We are indeed responsible for the choices we make as adults.

I hope that the statistics will show that the vast majority of Dutch Moroccans are law abiding - and I am also sure that once you allow for social status and other factors, Dutch Moroccans are no more likely to commit crimes than other similar groups in Dutch society.. but let's look at the raw statistics first before we look at other causal factors (other than immigrant status of parents).

Cheers,

Shafique

That's what I'm waiting for... stats and discussion of factors... Usually FD had Islam on his mind, so I'm wondering where he's going with this topic on Morroccans in the Netherlands.

Here is an interesting government report for reference:

http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/documenten-en-publicaties/rapporten/2010/11/22/rapport-overvallen-in-nederland.html

Unfortunately it doesn't specify jewelry robberies specifically, and doesn't specify violent robberies with ethnicity.

we schatten dat bij ongeveer 39% van de overvallen getinte daders betrokken waren, bij circa 31% van de overvallen negroïde daders, bij 28% blanke daders en bij 3% Aziaten

Translated: "we estimate that around 39% of robberies is done by light coloured people, 31% by blacks. 28% by whites and 3% Asian".

getint (light coloured)=PC for North African=Moroccan.

We are talking 2% of the population being responsible for 39% of robberies. (((hello))). McFly!

In 2010 there were 74 jewelery robberies. When google "getint/juwelier/overval/2010" I get massive hits. If I have time I'll count the individual ones, but I am sure it will add up to a majority.

Young goodwilling delinquents (yes there are wel willing young delinquents) need three things:
-trust
-boundaries
-responsibility

-For whatever reason trust is a major issue for them, and more than likely never had somebody they could trust. The well willing are longing for somebody they can trust, because they probably never had that. To show that somebody genuinly cares for them, can make the world of difference for them.
-Boundaries of course. People with healthy boundaries wouldn't go into criminality. Firm boundaries need to be set. No more BS.
-Responsibility. They have to own their mistakes. They survived by blaming others, making excuses, the worst you can do is reinforcing that. Unfortunately many 'helpers' reinforce that feeling that others or circumstances are to blame. You might as well send them straight to the street and a live of criminality.

Many, when given the chance and considering the three points above, take a chance to a live of normality when given the opportunity. other don't. Criminals Morocanns generally don't (90% criminal Morocann stay criminal). Based on research, the most probable cause is that Morocann boys are brought up from a very young age as prince. From a very young age there is no parental supervision and wander the streets. The % of personality disorders is also larger than other ethnicities. No conclusion is made why.

Based on research... links please?

Links have been posted in previous threads, but I will digg them up, going to bed soon, tomorrow is a busy day. In the mean time Shaf can calculate how many 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation Moroccans will have to live with a cut off hands, when sharia would be applied to them. It can be anything between 10% to 40%. I am curious.

Good grief!

Hey its not me seeing sharia in Europe as a positive thing, very much the opposite. Its shaf who sees it positive amongst others, he wants robbers and other criminals without hands.

Sharia laws that say hands have to be cut off are completely barbaric. I would never stop people from stealing because there are people who do it out of poverty and desperation, addiction and debt, and also due to mental disorders like kleptomania. Still, I haven't seen Shaf discussing Sharia here. For some reason you started a thread about Moroccans in the Netherlands on Dubai Forums Politics. I'm not really sure why.

kanelli wrote: Still, I haven't seen Shaf discussing Sharia here.

You brought Islam into this thread

kanelli wrote:For some reason you started a thread about Moroccans in the Netherlands on Dubai Forums Politics. I'm not really sure why.

Threads about the EDL, BNP, neo-nazi's in Europe is all fine, but Moroccans in Holland not. Who would have thought.

Yes, but Shaf didn't.

You certainly can bring up Moroccansin the Netherlands on this forum, but the blacks also have high crime rates according to your stats, but you have chosen Moroccans specifically as your target du jour. Forgive me if by your other posts I did assume you were focusing on Moroccans because they are mostly Muslim.

Can we just clear up the statistics before we get into strawmen such as shariah (not sure why Jewellery theifs will want shariah.. surely they are the last ones to want to have their own hands chopped off.. )

So, FD - I see very little in the way of hard numbers to back up your initial statement that the 'majority of violent jewelry robberies' are by Morrocans.

You say there were 74 jewelry robberies in 2010 - could you give me a link to this number? I recall that the Dutch police do keep good stats on crime - can you just link to this page (which I'm sure will contain the numbers of robberies in total).

Of these 74, some were 'violent', and of those you said the 'majority' were by Moroccans. But I don't see this backed up in any evidence - indeed, you seem to be quoting a source which doesn't mention the word Moroccan at all.


I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and will wait for some real evidence to support your view. However, if this is all you have to go on - I will have to conclude that once again your 'statement of fact' turns out to be a 'statement of belief' that is not actually based on real evidence, but seems to be just prejudice.

You're fully entitled to your beliefs and prejudices against fellow Dutchmen - but if we are to discuss the causalities of criminality in Holland, we should start with verifiable facts rather than beliefs. Don't you agree?

One interview with a convicted criminal is hardly a basis for your conclusions, is it?

Other reports actually paint a more positive picture of crime in your country - for example:

The Dutch government has announced that it does not have enough prisoners to fill its prisons, and as a result is closing down 8 prisons. Currently, the Netherlands has the capacity for 14,000 prisoners, but only has 12,000 people to fill those jails. The shutting down of these prisons are being attributed to an ever decreasing crime rate in the Netherlands.

http://www.lifemeanshealth.com/health-v ... rates.html

Cheers,
Shafique

kanelli wrote:You certainly can bring up Moroccansin the Netherlands on this forum

Thanks for your leniency ma'am. Are you the new moderator, or just a bit arrogant?

Do you have some evidence FD, or just one-liners?

Your sarcasm is hardly a respectful way to discuss a topic.

Cheers,

Shafique

shafique wrote:a respectful way to discuss a topic

That's funny coming from you fatboy.

kanelli wrote:Sharia laws that say hands have to be cut off are completely barbaric. I would never stop people from stealing because there are people who do it out of poverty and desperation, addiction and debt, and also due to mental disorders like kleptomania.

I cannot stop myself from interfering Kanelli.Sorry. This is how a non muslims responds to sharia law without any kind of knowledge or research into it..
Because cutting off the hand is a serious matter, it should not be done for just any case of theft. A combination of conditions must be fulfilled...
desperation out of poverty is not valid condition, addiction to theft as self right,such as pickpocketing is... mental disorders if physically and medicaly confirmed are not valid reason.. There are many more, such as it cannot be implied if property has been seized by force in front of other people, because in this case the owner of the property could have asked for help to stop the thief. The value of the stolen property should be above a certain limit... The stolen property should have been taken from a place where it had been put away..The theft itself has to be proven, either by the testimony of qualified witnesses or by the confession of the thief. The person from whom the property was stolen has to ask for it back; if he does not, then the thief's hand does not have to be cut off. See If we were shariah judge or laywers we would know so much about these conditions

But I am all for sharia law for the reasons explained in this video..

Berrin - I think it would have been better to have your post in the religion forum in a new thread - but thanks for posting.

Let's just see whether FD does follow his own advice about respectful posts and provides us with some evidence to discuss. I for one am interested in examining the evidence.

Cheers,
Shafique

(BM, try and refrain from trolling)

shafique wrote: but thanks for posting

Yes, thanks for sharing Berrin. Just proving that not only are you a stirrer but a total nutter into the bargain.

--- Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:50 pm ---

shafique wrote:(BM, try and refrain from trolling)

When you stop baiting, fatboy.

Bethsmum wrote:Yes, thanks for sharing Berrin. Just proving that not only are you a stirrer but a total nutter into the bargain.

Yes, every piece of body is very precious for those who have no belief in the afterlife, this is understandable without belief and works.. So whatever corruption everyone does in the society for self gain and worthiness is valid without the rule of law...What matters most it that you get rich as quicly as you can, no matter how you do it,or how you betray the rights of others, just live up as much crooked life as possible before death finds you. You have life for once, not twice...sooo what..steal as much as you can. You get jailed once, sooo what, come out of jail and continue..get jailed twice, sooo what tax payers will take care of you in prision to the best of standards.. Who cares if my tax rate goes up to 60% / month to care for criminals..At the end of the day those who choose to steal have right to live good life in luxury just before they die.. Sad sad outlook on life..but unfortunatly this is the truth for most like yourself..

With your logic, why should some of us stay innocent and behave while others continue to steal and get away with it, might as well we all steal and all corrupt eachother to the point of killing one another. That would be the way of life for us, if you could call it life to exist, wouldn't it..