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Will an effigy of Muhammad be hung or burned? At least Jones isn't accepting the displacement of responsibility.

Despite clear evidence that his actions have led to multiple murders and widespread violence in the Middle East, controversial Florida pastor Terry Jones has vowed to step up his provocative campaign against Islam.

The radical pastor said that he was considering putting Islamic prophet Mohammed 'on trial' for his next 'day of judgement' publicity stunt.

His last, in which he oversaw the burning of a copy of the Koran after a six-hour mock trial, has been directly responsible for a wave of violence that began last night and has left 30 people dead and more than 150 injured.

Jones explains his actions:

He told the New York Times: 'It was intended to stir the pot; if you don’t shake the boat, everyone will stay in their complacency.

...

'Did our action provoke them? Of course. Is it a provocation that can be justified? Is it a provocation that should lead to death?

'When lawyers provoke me, when banks provoke me, when reporters provoke me, I can’t kill them. That would not fly.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lence.html

Whilst I fully support the right to free speech and whatever, why is Pastor Jones so hellbent on rattling the cage of our Muslim mates? Everyone knows that they are irrational and mostly a bunch of Religious nutters but surely he has a conscience? Why is he insisting on putting lives at risk just because he wants a publicity stunt?
I think he's made his point, and people have suffered as a result. I hate to say it but enough is enough.
I am offended when the Muslims demonstrate against our troops parading through a town on their return from Afghanistan and when they burn poppies, but it wouldn't make me want to kill anyone. We are not dealing with normal, rational people unfortunately.

haha, Good ol terry is soon going to give birth to sextuplets

I like Terry Jones a lot and respect what he's doing.

The Muslim situation won't change if no one is willing to stand up for free speech.

If Rosa Parks never sat at the front of the bus, how long would it have taken for whites to begin allowing blacks civil rights?

Why is free speech an issue by liberals only when it comes to Muslims? Have liberals ever condemned Bible or flag burners?

EH, I've never felt that strongly about something that I would want to risk anyone else's life. If you want to risk your own, that's one thing, but there is just no reasoning with nutters. There has to be another way.
I despise those who burn the Union Jack and poppies, but it wouldn't want to make me kill anyone.

Fanatics.

You have to marvel at the chutzpah liberals have to blame some pastor in Florida for the killings people in far away lands - a week after the incident - are carrying out.

Anyways, I have no idea what 'poppies' are or what they symbolize to Brits. Could you explain that?

event horizon wrote:I like Terry Jones a lot and respect what he's doing.

The Muslim situation won't change if no one is willing to stand up for free speech.

If Rosa Parks never sat at the front of the bus, how long would it have taken for whites to begin allowing blacks civil rights?

Why is free speech an issue by liberals only when it comes to Muslims? Have liberals ever condemned Bible or flag burners?

You people fail to understand one thing..

The West has neglected -generally- all terms of respect to all religious symbols, but the thing is you cannot force all people to isolate religion from their life.
It's a basic element, came in one package since day one of Adam & Eve. You cannot enforce one-side's opinion on the other sides, which you should appreciate to an extent for resembling the classical form of thoughts that resembled ancient civilizations.

I have another opinion opposing yours, but I rather be careful not to hurt others feelings, specially with regard to very sensitive issues. Even when I comment harshly, its just my way to balance the attacks & defends.
The clash we witness today is literally between people adhereing conservative thoughts varrying in their degrees between moderate and extreme, and people neglecting any form of conservative thoughts and then utilizing the leftovers of their religious backgrounds for their own purposes in a very twisty attitude to serve their endless & aimless objectives that only trys to oppose the conservative side.

Freedom of speech concept -with no control- is nothing but a chaotic system itself. You can never have things widely open randomly. For every begining, there is an end. Ever seen an engine with missing switch on/off buttons? It should have both.
Even the human heart that keeps on pumping blood non-stop, will reach an end at some point.

My simple-mind advices me with the following: Freedom of speech is needed, and essential. The world's different nations and civilizations must sit down and approach a fixed standard for the concept of "Freedom of Speech" signed by everyone in order to set laws and controls to avoid any chaos.

You can't compare the Western schools to the Eastern schools, we're talking about middle ages here as it isn't far away from our modern history.
The Western ideoloygy dont seem to appreciate the classic form we Easterns adhere.
The Western media, always had a mutated image of the East, and there is a dirty agenda behind it, yet I don't like to put blame on the West, rather I blame the East for not putting extra efforts to oppose the Western intrusions in the East.

Its a fact, an extremist like you should admit it, that the West has been intruding in the East like a vampire in thirst of blood. This blood is translated into many things, for instance oil and gas, as well as trading routes, and even worse the aggresive desire to enforce the corrupted Western idealogy that we Easterns will never accept not in a million years.

Its very ironic, Easterns (mainly the Muslims) feels more offended when someone insults Jesus than those Westerns who are supposed to be Christians. But the situation has changed dramatically that, we rarely see Westerns adhereing any proper religion! Where as even those liberal Muslims, regardless their very liberal life style would still have religion as a core element in their heart and its very rare to find someone who totally neglects religion.

Freedom of Speech, based on your standards allows me to act aggressivly against you, for instance I can post your full personal details for everyone in the web if I ever had it, along with your fotos and some offensive comments as well. If someone asked me why I'm doing that, I can easily claim that you're a bad guy and spreading bad ideas. But all of that is so chaotic, thus we need controls for freedom of speech to avoid this mess.
Now if Terry Jones failed to understand how dear a religious symbol is to 1.6 billion people in the world, then it only shows he's no different than those extemists of Al Qaeda who also do not fit in the 1.6 billion population of Muslims. Having to see people defending such ignorant extremist, is just as ugly as seeing idiots showing support to criminals such as Bin laden.

If the cold West insisted on enforcing their ideology on our warm East, then let our warmth overwhelm you!
Look at yourself EH, what are you doing in Dubai or Dubai forums? This is an Eastern zone!
The more you oppose it, the more you'll fall for it.

My eyes just glazed over.

Take some advise from my signature that other forum members never heeded.

I'm sure you can condense what you wrote in one or two sentences at the most.

Take this advice of mine .. Shut Up

event horizon wrote:You have to marvel at the chutzpah liberals have to blame some pastor in Florida for the killings people in far away lands - a week after the incident - are carrying out.

Anyways, I have no idea what 'poppies' are or what they symbolize to Brits. Could you explain that?

The Royal British Legion Est 1921, provides welfare to the whole Armed Forces family, serving, ex-Service and their dependants. It also campaigns on a range of issues affecting Service people, is the custodian of Remembrance, runs the annual Poppy Appeal and is one of the UK's largest membership organisations.

How the Poppy Appeal began

Some of the bloodiest fighting of The Great War, renamed WW1 in 1939, took place in the Flanders and Picardy regions of Belgium and Northern France. The poppy was the only thing which grew in the aftermath of the complete devastation. John McCrae, a doctor serving there with the Canadian Armed Forces, deeply inspired and moved by what he saw, wrote these verses:

In Flanders' Fields, John McCrae, 1915

In Flanders' fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place: and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders' fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe;
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high,
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders' Fields.

On the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month in 1918, the First World War ended. Civilians wanted to remember the people who had given their lives for peace and freedom. An American War Secretary, Moina Michael, inspired by John McCrae's poem, began selling poppies to friends to raise money for the ex-Service community. And so the tradition began and continues to this day in remembrance of those fallen servicemen, who fought for our freedom in The Great War and subsequent conflicts.

So you see it's a symbol of remembrance of 'people who have given their lives for peace and freedom' not just British subjects, they are all remembered in the UK at 11:00 on 11/11 every Year.

A popular ode that is read at remembrance services throughout the UK on this day is a poem by Laurence Binyon, sometimes only the 4th verse is read with the title of 'Lest we forget'.

For the Fallen.

With proud thanksgiving, a mother for her children,
England mourns for her dead across the sea.
Flesh of her flesh they were, spirit of her spirit,
Fallen in the cause of the free.

Solemn the drums thrill; Death august and royal
Sings sorrow up into immortal spheres.
There is music in the midst of desolation
And a glory that shines upon our tears.

They went with songs to the battle, they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted;
They fell with their faces to the foe.

Lest we Forget.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old,
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

They mingle not with laughing comrades again;
They sit no more at familiar tables of home;
They have no lot in our labour of the day-time;
They sleep beyond England's foam.

But where our desires are and our hopes profound,
Felt as a well-spring that is hidden from sight,
To the innermost heart of their own land they are known
As the stars are known to the Night;

As the stars that shall be bright when we are dust,
Moving in marches upon the heavenly plain;
As the stars that are starry in the time of our darkness,
To the end, to the end, they remain.

http://www.poppy.org.uk