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The question I ask my self is Syria heading for another genocide. The region (ME) had already its fair share of genocide: the Armenians by the Ottomans/Turk and the Kurds under Saddam are notorious. Syria already witnessed a genocide: Hama. When I read and stories about Syria nowadays concerning shooting at will at protesters, mass graves, dumping containers with corpses in sea it might be Syria is heading for another genocide under the lead of Assad.

His wife was on the cover of Vogue not so long ago.

Really is sad, really not up to date on the situation over there but from the sound of it can't be good. Hopes something positive comes out of this.

Agreed - quite sad.

Ghadafi remaining stubbornly in power shows the limitation of the Arab Spring and unfortunately gives a bad example. Not to mention the other Arab dictatorships in the region - Kuwait, Saudi, Bahrain etc.

Power corrupts..

Cheers,
Shafique

The situation seems horrible there. I certainly hope that change happens, and quickly.

FD, if I were you I would neither blame, Armenians,Ottomans,Kurds, Turks, nor Saddam,Syria or whomever you can name in the name of middleast leadership and folks..

I’ll repeat this again and again...with the Sykes–Picot Agreement, all those above nations lost their political control which then was transfered to the hands of the westerners and western supported ME ruler/Bureaucrats that were only carrying out orders to reshape ME according to the new colonisation map, as well in support of the approaching cold war era ..

The artifical path those nations were being put through during this cold era, just had to be a bloody one unfortunately, as dismantling people from their good ‘ol traditions were very diffucult thing to tackle(due to resistance), for they were being under the process of nation building with new borders and camps.

So in the beginning just as they were destabilized via ruthless options, getting them back to normalisation after the fall of soviet regime is also happening via a bloody path is well.. Unfortunetly this is the sad part of the history that we have left for onwards to face today and confront ourselves with..I wish people have never been put to all this tragedy earlier on with the start of the 1st world war, as you can see its aftermath still continues to be scary...

But after the storm, there comes the sunshine again..Once the arab nations stabilised by normilisation, Israel and Iran will take their turns for normal democratic path, and only then we will abondon and replace secular inhuman sharia with the authentic humane one taking place in entire ME. (I hope)

I really am sorry for all those lifes we have lost so far, going all the way back to Europe’s history as well..But then again the world is not the perfect place for absolute justice, as we believe most of its injustices will be settled in the next life, as well in this life upon strife towards peace.

I’ll finish by dramatising the situation of Muslim world with laughter, presented by Turks..

Berrin sorry to say mate but your a one trick pony, just like EH. He blames everything on the Islam and muslims, you are on the other end of the specturm by blaming everything on the west.

Nobody disagrees certain countries have meddled in other countries bussiness, supported/support tyrants and dictators to forward their own intrests, But its high time to pull up the socks and stop trying to play the victim or pass on the blame.

desertdudeshj wrote:Berrin sorry to say mate but your a one trick pony, just like EH. He blames everything on the Islam and muslims, you are on the other end of the specturm by blaming everything on the west.

Nobody disagrees certain countries have meddled in other countries bussiness, supported/support tyrants and dictators to forward their own intrests, But its high time to pull up the socks and stop trying to play the victim or pass on the blame.

Hear hear, and I'm doubly happy, if somewhat surprised, that comment came from you DDS!

desertdudeshj wrote:Berrin sorry to say mate but your a one trick pony, just like EH. He blames everything on the Islam and muslims, you are on the other end of the specturm by blaming everything on the west.

Nobody disagrees certain countries have meddled in other countries bussiness, supported/support tyrants and dictators to forward their own intrests, But its high time to pull up the socks and stop trying to play the victim or pass on the blame.

What you don't understand is that if the westerners aren't willing to give up that leash on the muslims, then how can you expect the rulers to uprise when they are all tied down,all over the place as small countries institutionalised with infested western ideology and people, deprived from proper armies/population,proper industrial develepment and efficient education system for masses..When muslims were let down, Do you think Israels economic develepment and its western support was for a miracle or for a joke or something..

Do you think the people of ME would be allowed to uprise against their goverment, if western nations didn't change their oppresive hostile policies towards ME. Previously How many a times uprising sincere rulers and Bureaucrat have been assassinated and uprising intellectuals and opposition jailed and tortoured to shut up and stay quiet as they were told and ordered. I am sorry but you are living in your fancy world when your imagination doesn't match the truth on the ground.. So just do something good and stay away from me as much as you can...

Berrin wrote:I’ll repeat this again and again...with the Sykes–Picot Agreement, all those above nations lost their political control which then was transfered to the hands of the westerners and western supported ME ruler/Bureaucrats

The Sykes-Picot Secret Agreement? Berrin, you probably mean Molotov-Ribentrop one. Those democratic governments could not have done that in XX century. No... no... of cause not...

What part of "Nobody disagrees certain countries have meddled in other countries bussiness, supported/support tyrants and dictators to forward their own intrests, But its high time to pull up the socks and stop trying to play the victim or pass on the blame."you didn't exactly understand berrin.

I'll give you small but very controversial example here. 2005 Israel withdraws from Gazza, shortly afterwards it even bans Israelis from entering. Now we all would have thought this was the begining of a lasting peace and solution to the conflict. But what happens next ....the morons start to fight between themselves !

Iran is meddeling all over the place from Israel, Lebanon, Bahrain to Iraq to forward its Shia'ism. So what makes it any better than your evil west.

Like I said I don't disagree with you, but there is blame on both sides. Its the corrupt dictators and tyrants who went and made deals and let them in the first place. You can't just accuse the one offering the bribe as guilty but in my opinion the one accepting the bribe is more guilty. Its not utopia and you can't blame anyone for not using their power and influence to better their intrests if they can.

Your beloved Iran has effectively has kept all western influence out for a few decades now. So according to your logic it should a most advanced and model society with justice and peace for all ( sometimes juding from your rants I believe you do ! )

Its a global world now and its keep getting smaller, the sooner you realise the "west" has an equal right to live on this planet as the "east" does the sooner you will come to a better realisation. As the world gets smaller we have to learn to live with each other.

Again I reiterate that I don't disagree with you but just always pointing the finger to the big bad west while sitting on your thumbs is not going to achieve anything. And in this thread its totally irrelavant to whats going on in Syria. But knowing you, you will sooner or later come up with something that links this with Israel or the west.

DD - I agree with your overall sentiment - the Arab regimes and people have been power for long enough that they should just get over the historical meddling that took place. Most have, I'd argue - just look at the Arab spring.

However, the example of Gaza is one that I'd disagree with you in part - the sanctions weren't caused by the Palestinians, and indeed the election of Hamas really was just a reflection of the corruption of Fatah. As for the civil war that ensued in Gaza - well, there is evidence that the CIA were behind this:

Vanity Fair has obtained confidential documents, since corroborated by sources in the U.S. and Palestine, which lay bare a covert initiative, approved by Bush and implemented by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Deputy National Security Adviser Elliott Abrams, to provoke a Palestinian civil war. The plan was for forces led by Dahlan, and armed with new weapons supplied at America’s behest, to give Fatah the muscle it needed to remove the democratically elected Hamas-led government from power. (The State Department declined to comment.)

But the secret plan backfired, resulting in a further setback for American foreign policy under Bush. Instead of driving its enemies out of power, the U.S.-backed Fatah fighters inadvertently provoked Hamas to seize total control of Gaza.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/feat ... gaza200804

[I know this thread is about Syria - so apologies for the slight diversion. On Syria itself - I agree with you]


Berrin - thanks for the recommendation of David Fromkin's book 'A Peace to End all Peace'. Finished reading it last month - very enlightening. I learnt a few new things from it - Winston Churchill, TE Lawrence and all the intrigues in the Turkish arena.. I recommend it too.

Cheers,
Shafique

See Shaf, thats what I'm trying to say here. If Fatah and Hamas actually put asides their differences, overall they basically are on the same side isn't it. An independent and free Palestine or am I wrong ? And used that withdrawal to come toghter and further the peace process instead of havin' a go at each other.

One day they are at it with the Israelis, then the Israelis move out.

"Hmmm...what do I do now, I just bought a new AK 47 "






" Why you no good Fatah b@stard !"

America might have supplied the arms, but if they were not at each others throat in the first place ... ?
You see all this meddling bussiness is like the jedi mind trick. Only works on the feeble minded ( Yeah, been watching too many Star Wars movies recently ! )

Like I said people WILL stick their nose in your bid'niz....if you let them that is.

Hizbollah stands by their man:

BEIRUT // Hizbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah yesterday pledged support for the Syrian government, saying that an end to the Assad regime would only serve American and Israeli interests.

Speaking on the 11th anniversary of Liberation Day - marking the day Israeli troops withdrew from Lebanon in 2000 - the head of the Lebanese Shiite group also called for the rejection of sanctions against Syria and claimed the regime was committed to reform.

"No one denies that Syria has committed mistakes, but no one can deny the historic achievement of Syria to Lebanon, also Syria's stance on Israel and the Palestinian resistance," he said.

Mr Nasrallah again reiterated his claims that the UN-backed investigation into the assassination of the Lebanese prime minister Rafiq Hariri was politicised. His comments come after claims made earlier this week by the US president, Barack Obama, that the Lebanese Shiite group was responsible for political assassinations and car bombings. Mr Nasrallah dismissed the remarks as "US hostility" towards Hizbollah and said that Mr Obama had not just levelled accusations at the movement, but also passed "judgment about us".

While he addressed the changes sweeping across the Arab world, Mr Nasrallah also harkened back to when the regional "equation changed", with the end of the 22-year Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon and the west Bekaa region.

"Liberation Day is not the occasion of a particular party or sect, but a national occasion," he said in the televised speech. "What happened on May 25, 2000, changed the face of Lebanon and that of the region."

http://www.thenational.ae/news/worldwid ... d-in-syria

The Armenian genocide started before Sykes-Picot. Anyways, only extremely weak people blame everything on anybody else.

desertdudeshj wrote:See Shaf, thats what I'm trying to say here. If Fatah and Hamas actually put asides their differences, overall they basically are on the same side isn't it. An independent and free Palestine or am I wrong ? And used that withdrawal to come toghter and further the peace process instead of havin' a go at each other.

Can't argue with that.

The recent agreement, brokered by Egypt, between Hamas and Fatah achieves this aim. We still have nutters such as Islamic Jihad (but just as in Northern Ireland where we have the 'real IRA' nutters - the nutters shouldn't be allowed to derail the peace).

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:(but just as in Northern Ireland where we have the 'real IRA' nutters - the nutters shouldn't be allowed to derail the peace).

Cheers,
Shafique

What connection those Irish freedom fighters have with genoside in Syria I am ashamed to ask. There are also Basques, Chechens. Pardon, the last ones are Muzlimz. My fault.

It appears things are getting worse and worse in Syria±

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=224480

Syrian helicopter gunships fired machine guns to disperse a large pro-democracy protest in the town of Maarat al-Numaan on Friday, witnesses said, a dangerous escalation of force at the end of a day in which 32 civilians were reported killed by Assad's forces across the country.

Last time in Dubai I spoke with a Syrian guy and he said `the violence has to stop´. Told him, yeah things in Syria really donot look well. He looked surprised, irritated and a bit angry. He said `NO, I AM TALKING ABOUT ISRAEL`.

More and more I start to think that intense hatred beats self-preservation.

I got a haircut recently and the fellow cutting my hair revealed he was Syrian, I said terrible things happening over there at the moment, he looked surprised and said Naaaaah it's nothing, I speak with my family all over Syria and they say there's no problem!