Spine For Spine Justice

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Spine for spine justice Aug 20, 2010
A Saudi man convicted of paralysing a fellow countryman in a cleaver attack is being threatened with having his spinal cord cut in a tit-for-tat punishment.

The ultra-conservative desert Kingdom enforces Islamic law and on rare occasions metes out punishments based on the ancient code of an ‘eye-for-an-eye’.

The case judge in the northwestern province of Tabuk has sent letters to several hospitals seeking their advice on whether it is medically possible to render the attacker’s spinal cord non-functional, local newspapers said.


One leading hospital said that it could not perform the operation, apparently on ethical grounds. The King Faisal Specialist Hospital – a leading medical facility in the Saudi capital, Riyadh – said in a letter of response to the court that 'inflicting such harm is not possible'.

Another hospital reportedly said it is possible to cut the spinal cord but it was not clear whether it is prepared to do so.

The punishment can be waived if the victim chooses to accept 'blood money' in reparation.

The same also applies in capital cases, such as murder. There have been several instances over the years where a convicted murderer’s life has been spared at the 11th hour when his victim’s family has eventually decided to show mercy.


On some occasions the executioner was poised with his sword over the condemned man’s neck when the reprieve came.

But in this instance the victim, Abdul-Aziz Al-Mutairi, is insisting that his attacker – who has not been named by Saudi media – suffer the same crippling injury.

Mutairi, 22, said the culprit had confessed in court to hitting him with a cleaver during a fight more than two years ago, Saudi media reports.

His attacker has spent several months in jail.

Such ‘eye for eye’ punishments are rarely carried out in Saudi Arabia, and Saudi reformists are infuriated when such sentences are passed.

'No hospital will cut this man’s spinal cord. Any doctor who did could find himself in court,' said a senior Saudi journalist, who did not wish to be named.

'This is part of an extremist tradition that has nothing to do with Islamic law which places a high value on mercy,' he said.

Four years ago a Saudi court pardoned an Indian man, Abdul Lateef Noushad, whose eye was to be gouged out. He had blinded another man in a fight over money. The victim eventually pardoned the Indian after the case threatened to cause a diplomatic row. The reprieve came a day before Saudi’s King Abdullah arrived in India on a state visit.

But ten years ago, an Egyptian worker had an eye surgically removed in a Saudi hospital as punishment for disfiguring a compatriot in an acid attack six years earlier.

That was said to be the first time in 40 years that a Saudi court had applied literally the principle of “an eye for an eye”, local media said at the time.

The Egyptian’s victim had refused a blood money offer of £87,000. In 2008, an Iranian court sentenced a man to be blinded with acid after he did the same to a woman he was stalking. It is not clear if the punishment was carried out.

Human rights groups invariably describe such ‘eye for an eye’
punishments as 'abhorrent'. They also say that trials in Saudi Arabia fall far below international standards.Trials usually take place behind closed doors and without adequate legal representation.

The Kingdom has one of the highest execution rates in the world after China and Iran. The most common method of execution in Saudia Arabia is beheading. The sentences are usually carried out in public.

But King Abdullah, the Saudi monarch, has been trying to clamp down on extremist ideology and improve the country’s forbidding image. Although in his 80s, he is a reformist. He recently banned unauthorised clerics from issuing bizarre religious decrees known as fatwas.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... z0x9PndXt3

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Re: Spine For Spine Justice Aug 20, 2010
I remember reading somewhere 'an eye for an eye'.. now... where was it? ;)

I hope that the mullahs in Saudi are shamed into sense with the publicity this is getting - and hope the doctors continue to refuse this sentence. Sometimes you wonder whether common sense is beaten out of these guys in their training!?


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Re: Spine for spine justice Aug 20, 2010
Human rights groups invariably describe such ‘eye for an eye’
punishments as 'abhorrent'.


I never understand why such human rights groups opt to protect the criminal and punish the victim..
No person has the right to become criminal and give bodily damage to another person in the first place..
In case of disputes there are courts to resolve matters for justice,..acting cruel to give bodily harm can be irreversable, something that courts cannot do anythig about, for there would be nothing left to resolve other than asking the victim what he wants!
So why is there so much tolerance against such criminals? the more we retrieve and give lesser punishments in the name of the victim, the higher the laws and human rights get neglected.

The second form of punishment is called Qisas, which is the punishment for homicide and assault. Whenever a person causes physical harm or death to another, the injured or family of the deceased has the right to retaliation. A unique aspect of Qisas, is that the victim's family has the option to insist upon the punishment, accept monetary recompense, or forgive the offender, which could even avert capital punishment. This leaves the door open to compassion and forgiveness. Settlements are therefore encouraged outside of court, as a judge must exact the punishment.


Read more: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Sate ... z0x9qnRFC8

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Re: Spine for spine justice Aug 20, 2010
Respect for being logically consistent.

It's almost beyond belief for someone to criticize paralysis but condone hand and cross (hand and foot chopping on opposite sides) amputation.
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Re: Spine for spine justice Aug 23, 2010
Oh dear, the loon-in-chief has been caught out again. This is from SpencerWatch.com and is about Spencer's take on the story of this thread:

Robert Spencer’s “Cut and Paste” Scholarship


Robert Spencer calls himself a “scholar of Islam”, but the more one delves into his “scholarship,” the more one realizes that he is anything but. In a recent post about a truly shocking news report from Saudi Arabia, Spencer begins by saying, “It’s in the Qur’an…”

It’s in the Qur’an: “We ordained therein for them: ‘Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.’ But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.” — Qur’an 5:45

Now you will tell me, “Wait a minute, Spencer, that’s in the Hebrew Scriptures, too.” So often I hear that the Bible and the Qur’an are equivalent in their messages — something that only someone who hasn’t read either one could say. But in any case, it’s true: “an eye for an eye” appears in Exodus 21:22-25, Leviticus 24:19-21, and Deuteronomy 19:21. However, this phrase has always been understood in Judaism as limiting excessive vengeance, not encouraging it, and has never been taken in Jewish tradition as being a warrant for maiming anyone. It is likewise limited in Christianity by Jesus’ statement: “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also” (Matthew 5:38-39).

But in Islam, the literal force of the Qur’anic passage is paramount.


He then goes on to quote the news report from Saudia Arabia, and then ends his post by writing: “So there’s no discussion of whether it is cruel and unusual punishment. After all, it’s in the Qur’an.”

His disdain for Islam is palpable, and that disdain colors his “scholarship.” Take the verse he quoted, 5:45. The way Spencer introduces the verse, you would think that this “eye for and eye” principle came from the Qur’an. Yet, in this verse, the Qur’an was talking about the principle that was laid down in the Biblical scriptures: Read the verse again:

We ordained therein for them: ‘Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.’ But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.”


Who is the “them” in the verse? Spencer makes the reader think that the “them” refers to Muslims. In context, however, one realizes that the verse is actually talking about the Jewish people:

Verily, it is We who bestowed from on high the Torah, wherein there was guidance and light. On `its strength did the prophets, who had surrendered themselves unto God, deliver judgment unto those who followed the Jewish faith; and so did the [early] men of God and the rabbis, inasmuch as some of God’s writ had been entrusted to their care; and they [all] bore witness to its truth. Therefore, [O children of Israel,] hold not men in awe, but stand in awe of Me; and do not barter away My messages for a trifling gain: for they who do not judge in accordance with what God has bestowed from on high are, indeed, deniers of the truth!

And We ordained for them in that [Torah]: A life for a life, and an eye for an eye, and a nose for a nose, and an ear for an ear, and a tooth for a tooth, and a [similar] retribution for wounds; but he who shall forgo it out of charity will atone thereby for some of his past sins. And they who do not judge in accordance with what God has revealed – they, they are the evildoers! (Quran 5:44-45)


Of course, Spencer “the scholar” will not mention this at all. Now, Spencer does admit that this “eye for an eye” principle is in the Bible, but he quickly seeks to qualify their meaning:

But in any case, it’s true: “an eye for an eye” appears in Exodus 21:22-25, Leviticus 24:19-21, and Deuteronomy 19:21. However, this phrase has always been understood in Judaism as limiting excessive vengeance, not encouraging it, and has never been taken in Jewish tradition as being a warrant for maiming anyone.


But, Spencer gives no such allowance for Islam:

But in Islam, the literal force of the Qur’anic passage is paramount.


Yet, read the verse again, and it becomes clear that it actually encourages forgiveness:

But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself.


Isn’t that exactly the same as what Spencer says about Jewish tradition? Doesn’t this verse seek to “limit excessive vengeance,” or even any vengeance at all? Sure it does, but Spencer will never admit to this.

This same principle of forgiveness is found in the other Qur’anic verse about retribution (emphasis mine):

O YOU who have attained to faith! Just retribution is ordained for you in cases of killing: the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the woman for the woman. But if the culprit is pardoned by his aggrieved brother, then restitution to his fellow man shall be made in a goodly manner. This is an alleviation from your Lord and an act of mercy. (Quran, 2:178)


Again, the verse extols the virtue of forgiveness. But, Spencer will never tell you this. His hatred for Islam is so blinding, that he can’t even see the weakness of his own arguments. And they call him a “scholar”?


Now we know where mini-me/wannabe Spencer got his schooling from! ;)

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Shafique
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Re: Spine for spine justice Aug 23, 2010
Not as much of a punking once you actually read Spencer's previous comments regarding this passage, in addition to Danios's ignorance of the passage itself.

Anyways, any of several passages relating to retaliation could suffice, such as:

42:40

The guerdon of an ill-deed is an ill the like thereof. But whosoever pardoneth and amendeth, his wage is the affair of Allah. Lo! He loveth not wrong-doers.


or 2:178, which is what the Bali bombers cited to justify their massacre.

Anyways, any comment on what the difference between cross amputation and paralyzing someone is ?

Though I do join you in encouraging Muslims to ignore a number of passages in the Koran and to regard those as pertaining to only certain times and places.
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Re: Spine For Spine Justice Aug 23, 2010
No young one - Spencer's quotes have been given in full and he's been exposed for selectively quoting and maliciously misinterpreting the Quranic verse.

Well and truly punked. Repeating your loon fantasies can't obscure this plain fact, so put away those loon-reality-distortion specs.

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