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Center for Security Policy [Politics]

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=2176469

Just more fear mongering. More us vs them from the likes of Fox news and Glenn beck, and some less informed folk fall prey to that and thats why the tea party is gaining some momentum and recently one of their candidates Christine O'Donnell also won. But most Americans are smarter than that to fall for such pointless and baseless fear mongering.

Like I said earlier these people would like everyone to beileve that the billion man army is on the war path and knocking on their door steps. And the poor fools who fall for such propaganda deserve to live in a jihadi fear filled paranoid fantasy world, while the rest of us sane people carry on enjoying our normal lives.

I hope you're right, but I'd be damned to ignore such high level research at my own peril...

I'm reading the entire report and if your really interested in these matters, I recommend you read it also for basic awareness. Not everything you read is propaganda.

Nothing new in there, even includes the classic out of context verses, its getting pretty old and lame after 9 years of regurgitating the same spin over and over.

RobbyG wrote:Center for Security Policy [Politics]

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=2176469

For America to live under Sharia, it would have to be militarily occupied and ruled by the Moslems…..

A far, far, far fetched possibility….

The Moslems are having a hard time building just one frigging mosque in NY, and you think they can occupy and rule the entire country!!!

Very funny….!

One more ridiculous aspect of the current fear mongering campaign, as DD said.

A these are the type of tea baggers who are suppose to lead the fictional war against Jihad !

It is clear to me, that you DD aren't exactly familiar with American politics. The TEA party has got nothing to do with 'a war against Jihad', other than 'bringing the troops home' with regards to foreign policy. Most of all, they are fiscal conservatives and supporting a great cause against big government.

But then again, screaming is one thing, knowing your stuff is another.

Try and read the stuff I posted, it might open some eyes.

@Jones: If you understand the fact that in about 15 years in the current pace of immigration and birthrates, the Netherlands will have more muslims than native Dutch (50+ percent), you'd understand that democracy will eventually rule in favor of muslims, which could destroy our freedoms and values we so cherish.

That majority rules remember? Minority suffers...in their own country...ffs.

Since there are many Muslims on this forum, I would be interested in knowing, who is not striving for a global caliphate with sharia.

There hasn't have to be a majority of Muslim in order for sharia to be implemented. In Europe at least Muslims are pushing for sharia courts. If there rulings stay within the respective constitutions, that shouldn't be a problem. It becomes a problem of course when their rulings contradict the national law, even it applies to family law. And that's whats happening indeed. While some sharia courts donot hold any legal power, Mulsims declare that they only recognize the sharia courts ruling and not national law. Thats worrisone.

RobbyG, here is a study from 2007 based on CBS data, claiming that if circumstances stay the same, the Muslim population will be 8% in Holland:

http://www.nidi.knaw.nl/en/output/demos/2007/demos-23-09-debeer.pdf/demos-23-09-debeer.pdf

I will look into it a bit later on. Thnx.

update: Just read the piece.

8 percent in scenario 1.
12 percent in scenario 2.
24 percent in scenario 3 in 2050.

I stand corrected. This 2025 (15 years out) figure I quoted, was mentioned on TV recently. Apparently you can't trust anyone at face value these days. Thanks.

RobbyG wrote:It is clear to me, that you DD aren't exactly familiar with American politics. The TEA party has got nothing to do with 'a war against Jihad', other than 'bringing the troops home' with regards to foreign policy. Most of all, they are fiscal conservatives and supporting a great cause against big government.

But then again, screaming is one thing, knowing your stuff is another.

Try and read the stuff I posted, it might open some eyes.

@Jones: If you understand the fact that in about 15 years in the current pace of immigration and birthrates, the Netherlands will have more muslims than native Dutch (50+ percent), you'd understand that democracy will eventually rule in favor of muslims, which could destroy our freedoms and values we so cherish.

That majority rules remember? Minority suffers...in their own country...ffs.

Your not up to date are you. This was in reference to current events taking place. Tea party'ers like beck, palin and people who support them or think along similar lines like your geert and fox news are at the fore front of the fear mongering today.

The teaparty consists of numerous people from different backgrounds who initially where rallied by voices like Ron Paul, but since have been associated with the Glen Becks and Sarah Palins who speech at those rallies. After all, the Republican party was always the most fiscal conservative and with the Democrats running a fiscal train wreck, they (GOP) try to portray that again.

Its sad to see Ron Paul being pushed to the background. Beck and Palin are pushing the neocon agenda (interventionist foreign policy) while Ron Paul (libertarian) is the one who wants to bring the troops home and mind America's own business and balance the budget.

You should understand that the TEA party is a grassroots gathering, totally sick of politics as usual and current day politicians try to associate themselves with the TEA party for Republican votes in the November midterm elections.

Politicians hope to use fearmongering to gain votes (populism, playing emotions). But that doesn't change the fact that Islam (thus Shariah) is an ideology incompatible with the US constitution and the values of the Western World in general. Some just don't see this yet.

It will come, eventually. Repetition is key to that, together with showing the ideologic actions at the grassroots level (ME fundies).

Again doesn't change anything. No body said shariah is compatible with the US consititution, and nobody is trying to impose it on the US or the west. Its an self made fantasy by these fear mongers.

Also no one said the the US consitution is the bench mark which everything else should be measured against. For example Canada up north has a much better charter of rights or the UK. But it is only the US who is trying shove its form of democracy down other peoples throat.

The threat ( Its not even a threat now its a reality ) from the US trying to impose its system is much more than vice versa. So maybe the old saying does apply that people living in glass houses should not be hurling stones at others. When it come to this issue.

Your issue is the fear mongering. I agree, it sucks.

If you want change, you need to support the right candidates and vote accordingly (if you can vote).
Some people in the US want to impose democracy on others (neocons at the GOP, some democrats), alot of independants don't. You'll find those independants at the grassroots TEA party level. Most of them never joined politics before. They are sick of it.

Of course the democrats have anti-war supporters also, but when you see the actions of the Democrats in office and/or the Republicans in office, I don't see any difference in foreign policy. Obama is just as much a war president as Bush was. He's a talking head, a puppet who gets played by the strings behind the curtain. The CIA runs the show. The most effective way to change that, is to crack the two party system and erect a third party, hopefully a Libertarian Party with Ron Paul on top including support from the TEA party.

Now that would really change foreign policy and get the US back on its feet economically. Current day political situation in the US is in gridlock. There is no bipartisan support for reform on any major issues. Spending is out of control. There are no targets for spending effectivity. The Obama administration is the most lame duck administration I've ever seen.

My god, I got tricked into believing this President could bring 'Change' to Washington and in effect, the world. Boy was I fooled.

Current political system is broken. The TEA party is an outcry for real change. You'll be amazed what the people's voice can do when they vote out all incumbents in Washington in the midterms. Power to the People. Its a Revolution from the grassroots level and its momentum is huge. You'll see.

Interesting comparison of Sharia vs. the US Constitution.

http://doveworld.org/blog/the-united-st ... in-america

Clearly you cannot have one set of laws for one group, and another set of laws or another group. If Sharia was ever undertaken as "law" in the US (which it will never happen as laws in the state are not derived from religious beliefs, whereas Sharia is based on religious belief) would that allow a Muslim who was found to have commited a crime to opt out of Sharia and be "tried" under US law??

Personally, if you want to enjoy the benefits of freedom and everything else that a free society provides, then pay the price that goes with it - live by the law of the land. If the US Consitution doesn't fit ones religion beliefs and practice, move to an Islamic country.

I think I'm going to start a movement in Dubai that expats (Muslim and non-Muslim) who get banged up should be tried under the laws of their own country.

Bora Bora wrote:Interesting comparison of Sharia vs. the US Constitution.

http://doveworld.org/blog/the-united-st ... in-america

Clearly you cannot have one set of laws for one group, and another set of laws or another group. If Sharia was ever undertaken as "law" in the US (which it will never happen as laws in the state are not derived from religious beliefs, whereas Sharia is based on religious belief) would that allow a Muslim who was found to have commited a crime to opt out of Sharia and be "tried" under US law??

Personally, if you want to enjoy the benefits of freedom and everything else that a free society provides, then pay the price that goes with it - live by the law of the land. If the US Consitution doesn't fit ones religion beliefs and practice, move to an Islamic country.

I think I'm going to start a movement in Dubai that expats (Muslim and non-Muslim) who get banged up should be tried under the laws of their own country.

Someone is changing her stance regarding religion/ideology here. Good development.

So you're starting a movement in Dubai hm? Expect to be the new Sharla Musabi. You'll be deported hon. Persona non grata.

I can always go to the Netherlands.

I'm moderate RobbyG, but realistic!!!!

I'm a fierce freedom fighter. Realistic and Libertarian.

You moderates just make me want to look radical.

Robby G and FD:

I don’t know about the Netherlands, but here in America, I don’t think the Moslems will ever be the majority, even with increased immigration and high birth rate.

Sadly, we hear mostly about the loud radicals, but most Moslems I met here in the West are moderate, peaceful, hard working people -- and, BTW, they don‘t have a high birth rate for economic and other reasons. Many are actually not practicing Moslems --Moslems by name only. They love the Western lifestyle and enjoy living in the West.

Even the conservative Moslems love the freedoms they’re enjoying in the West, esp. women. I’m sure none of them would want to live under the Sharia law.

I was invited recently by a former Dubai resident (a Moslem Pakistani), who now lives here in the US, to a big Eid picnic in the park. There were over 150 Moslem people there - families and singles. Women and men were mixing together and talking (and laughing) with each other. Some girls were not wearing the head cover, and were wearing jeans and tight clothes. I met and talked to many of the people at that picnic. Virtually everyone I talked to was happy to be here in America, despite the recent problems they were encountering at the workplace. Most think it is just a phase, and that it will pass. Even if the problems continue, most say they will continue to live here, because, they feel, living in the West is still a lot better than living in their repressive societies and under their repressive governments back home.

They told me they were the “Silent Majority” because all the Moslems we hear about in the news are the radical Moslems.

So I was thinking,… even if the Moslems became the majority here in America, which I think that would never, ever happen, they still wouldn’t want to live under the Sharia law.

Most of the second generation Moslems in the West are liberal and have assimilated pretty well into the Western societies. So this fear of Shria, being implemented someday in the West, is really grossly over exaggerated, and, in my opinion, the possibility for that happening is virtually non-existent!

RobbyG wrote:I'm a fierce freedom fighter. Realistic and Libertarian.

You moderates just make me want to look radical.

You forgot to mention: .............and can be damn stubborn!!!!

Bora Bora wrote:

RobbyG wrote:I'm a fierce freedom fighter. Realistic and Libertarian.

You moderates just make me want to look radical.

You forgot to mention: .............and can be damn stubborn!!!!

True, true but don't you forget to mention that I'm excellent in bed also! At least, thats what they tell me...

That compensates alot you know.