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The chorus has been singing songs of falsehood and lies. We are all in the chorus saying there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. We are all part of the chorus claiming the occupation of Gaza has ended, and that the flotilla is a violent attack on Israeli sovereignty - the cement is for building bunkers and the convoy is being funded by the Turkish Muslim Brotherhood. The Israeli siege of Gaza will topple Hamas and free Gilad Shalit. Foreign Ministry spokesman Yossi Levy, one of the most ridiculous of the propagandists, outdid himself when he unblinkingly proclaimed that the aid convoy headed toward Gaza was a violation of international law. Right. Exactly.
The Hamas leader in Gaza Ismail Haniyeh said Saturday that if Israel behaved like pirates and attacked the international Freedom Flotilla carrying 10,000 tons of aid meant for Gaza, then the Palestinians will have won.
"The flotilla's message is clear and it will reach the entire world," Haniyeh said Saturday morning during a press conference held at the Gaza port where the ships were expected to dock.
RobbyG wrote:You know those preambles are mere provocations. That doesn't change Israels consistency to do what its safety requires. Who knows what those ships carry, other than aid...
They handled it like they always do. Did you see this video? Do comment on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKOmLP4y ... re=channel
The Israeli Govt supports the delivery of humanitarian supplies to the civilian population in the Gaza strip
shafique wrote:event horizon wrote:Contrary to the spin fed to us by the Western and Islamic/Arab media, respectively, it was the Pal-Arabs who rejected the UN partition plan of '47 whereas the Jews accepted the UN plan.
That's true - the 1947 plan gave Israel 55% of the land and Palestine 45% of the land. The Arab side did indeed reject this.
Now they are willing to settle for the 22% that was left before the 1967 war and let Israel keep the 78% they have. Unfortunately, Israel is not happy to 'only' keep this 78% and want more.
As the partition vote in the UN approached, it became clear little hope existed for a political solution to a problem that transcended politics: the Arabs' unwillingness to accept a Jewish state in Palestine and the refusal of the Zionists to settle for anything less. The implacability of the Arabs was evident when Jewish Agency representatives David Horowitz and Abba Eban made a last-ditch effort to reach a compromise in a meeting with Arab League Secretary-General Azzam Pasha on September 16, 1947.
Pasha told them bluntly:
The Arab world is not in a compromising mood. It's likely, Mr. Horowitz, that your plan is rational and logical, but the fate of nations is not decided by rational logic. Nations never concede; they fight. You won't get anything by peaceful means or compromise. You can, perhaps, get something, but only by the force of your arms. We shall try to defeat you. I am not sure we'll succeed, but we'll try. We were able to drive out the Crusaders, but on the other hand we lost Spain and Persia. It may be that we shall lose Palestine. But it's too late to talk of peaceful solutions.
The categorical rejection of partition by the Arab Higher Committee led by Haj Amin al-Huseini as well as the newly created Arab League represented an all-or-nothing attitude that was ultimately counterproductive. It resulted in the utter defeat of Palestinian dreams for independence, for at least half a century.
The Arabs not only rejected partition, but attacked Israel from all sides. The armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq invaded Israel on May 15, 1947, the day after Israel's Independence Day, with the clear intention of killing the infant state in its cradle.
On the day before the Gaza flotilla confronted the Israeli navy, Al-Jazeera TV documented the pre-battle atmosphere created by men on board the flotilla, who chanted a well-known Islamic battle cry invoking the killing and defeat of Jews in battle:
"[Remember] Khaibar, Khaibar, oh Jews! The army of Muhammad will return!"
Khaibar is the name of the last Jewish village defeated by Muhammad's army in 628. Many Jews were killed in that battle, which marked the end of Jewish presence in Arabia. There are Muslims who see that as a precursor to future wars against Jews. At gatherings and rallies of extremists, this chant is often heard as a threat to Jews to expect to be defeated and killed again by Muslims.
Al-Jazeera also interviewed a woman who said that the flotilla participants' goal was "one of two happy endings: either Martyrdom or reaching Gaza."
desertdudeshj wrote:Infidel ? Now your just adding what you want to hear ( and probally see )
I know your doing your regular routine and trying to ruffle some feathers by being the antagonist here. But come on man 4th largest Army decends on a group of civilians armed with pitch forks and sticks who were trying to supply some relief to other civilians under seige and kills a bunch of them. Thats just plain wrong and against humanity man. Just plain wrong.
But then again when did Israel ever care about that or showed any.
Turkey threatens action; Israel on alert
Two Turkish activists were reported to be among those killed in the flotilla. Ankara warned that further supply vessels will be sent to Gaza, escorted by the Turkish Navy, a development with unpredictable consequences.
Israeli Explanation
Officials estimated that passengers will show slight resistance, and possibly minor violence; for that reason, the operation�s commander decided to bring the helicopter directly above the top deck. The first rope that soldiers used in order to descend down to the ship was wrested away by activists, most of them Turks, and tied to an antenna with the hopes of bringing the chopper down. However, Flotilla 13 fighters decided to carry on.
Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.
However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.
One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other �don�t shoot, don�t shoot,� even though they sustained numerous blows.
�I saw the tip of a rifle�
The Navy commandoes were prepared to mostly encounter political activists seeking to hold a protest, rather than trained street fighters. The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs. They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.
The planned rush towards the vessel�s bridge became impossible, even when a second chopper was brought in with another crew of soldiers. �Throw stun grenades,� shouted Flotilla 13�s commander who monitored the operation. The Navy chief was not too far, on board a speedboat belonging to Flotilla 13, along with forces who attempted to climb into the back of the ship.
The forces hurled stun grenades, yet the rioters on the top deck, whose number swelled up to 30 by that time, kept on beating up about 30 commandoes who kept gliding their way one by one from the helicopter. At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness.
Only after this injury did Flotilla 13 troops ask for permission to use live fire. The commander approved it: You can go ahead and fire. The soldiers pulled out their handguns and started shooting at the rioters� legs, a move that ultimately neutralized them. Meanwhile, the rioters started to fire back at the commandoes.
�I saw the tip of a rifle sticking out of the stairwell,� one commando said. �He fired at us and we fired back. We didn�t see if we hit him. We looked for him later but couldn�t find him.� Two soldiers sustained gunshot wounds to their knee and stomach after rioters apparently fired at them using guns wrested away from troops.
Israel is lost at sea
05.31.2010 | Financial Times
Attack on blockade-busters damages its legitimacy
With yesterday’s brazen act of piracy, Israel dealt a blow to the legitimacy of its own struggle. The killing of activists aboard the captured ships sent Israel’s way of defending its security, which it was already imperative to return within the bounds of international law, hurtling into lawlessness.
Israel claims the activists had links with extremist groups and that some attacked Israeli soldiers with knives and sticks (and in some accounts the odd light firearm). Even if true, this would not justify the illegal capture of civilian ships carrying humanitarian aid in international waters, let alone the use of deadly force.
Outrageous as this behaviour was, the true outrage is the illegal blockade of Gaza that it enforced. Since the January 2009 Gaza war, which exposed Israel’s determination to destroy Hamas’s capabilities regardless of the cost to innocent Palestinians, Israel and Egypt have colluded to prevent the enclave’s reconstruction. According to the United Nations, three-quarters of the damage has not been repaired and 60 per cent of homes do not have enough food.
The ostensible goal is to weaken Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood offshoot that rules Gaza (and whose Egyptian incarnation is Hosni Mubarak’s only real opposition ). But the blockade aimed at crushing it, besides the illegal collective punishment it implies, only shores up Hamas’s support. If Israel and Egypt wanted to turn Gaza into a mafia-run statelet, they could hardly do better than sever any alternatives to Hamas’s smuggling network, leaving the population even more at its mercy.
Hamas engages in terrorism and fires occasional rockets into Israel, but it is an example of that rarest of Middle Eastern species: a popularly elected government. It has also signed up to the 2002 comprehensive peace offer by the Arab League and the Organisation of the Islamic Conference. If this is a bluff, it is one Israel has yet to call. That is what this is ultimately about. Israel’s government has been pretending it is ready to negotiate for peace, but that there is no one to negotiate with on the other side. The attack on the blockade-busters lays bare the country’s slide into contempt for international law, intolerance of dissent and wilful sabotage of viable representation for Palestinians.
Israel has always known the importance of its conduct being judged legal by the world’s leading powers. Those powers – in the body of the Quartet and the UN Security Council – must now make clear it has gone too far.
Israel has imposed an information blackout, making it difficult to gather first-hand accounts from the campaigners.
Hamas engages in terrorism and fires occasional rockets into Israel, but it is an example of that rarest of Middle Eastern species: a popularly elected government. It has also signed up to the 2002 comprehensive peace offer by the Arab League and the Organisation of the Islamic Conference. If this is a bluff, it is one Israel has yet to call. That is what this is ultimately about. Israel’s government has been pretending it is ready to negotiate for peace, but that there is no one to negotiate with on the other side. The attack on the blockade-busters lays bare the country’s slide into contempt for international law, intolerance of dissent and wilful sabotage of viable representation for Palestinians.
desertdudeshj wrote:Your missing the point compadre. Attack and murder in international waters equals to piracy. Illegal, no two ways about it.
What would you say a bunch of somali pirates boared a vessel and the crew attacked these pirates ? Would you say the pirates were in their full rights to open fire at the crew or passengers ?
Lets take it step by step
1- Was the boarding of the vessel even legal ?
Besides either which ways the floatilla would be entering Isreali space. So if one has to intercept them, why wait until they enter your space?
Misery Called Life wrote:And Robby you questioned the motives behind Turkey's actions?
It's Votesssss!
PS Rob, impressive arguments!
Before Erdohans conviction, the Welfare Party, of which he was a member at the time, was declared unconstitutional and shut down by the Turkish constitutional court on the grounds of threatening the Kemalist nature of Turkey. Erdogan became a constant speaker at the demonstrations held by his colleagues from the banned Welfare Party.[10]
He was given a prison sentence after he had read poetry regarded as a violation of Kemalism by judges. It included lines translated as "The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers..."[3]
The poem was quoted from a book published by a state enterprise and one that had been recommended to teachers by the Ministry of Education.
event horizon wrote:but Israel on the other hands, said no to every peace initiative.
Contrary to the spin fed to us by the Western and Islamic/Arab media, respectively, it was the Pal-Arabs who rejected the UN partition plan of '47 whereas the Jews accepted the UN plan.
RobbyG wrote:PS Rob, impressive arguments!
Good point MCL! That Erdohan fella from Turkey is a freak also. In his earlier years he said he wanted to create an Islamic state and he was using democracy for doing so! He also tried to replace the Constitutional courts judges to his favor once.
He seems to be another religious dope. Sic!
..
symmetric wrote:Why would you force a whole nation to accept sharing their land with total aliens?
Good point MCL! That Erdohan fella from Turkey is a freak also.
(Hamas) has also signed up to the 2002 comprehensive peace offer by the Arab League and the Organisation of the Islamic Conference. If this is a bluff, it is one Israel has yet to call. That is what this is ultimately about. Israel’s government has been pretending it is ready to negotiate for peace, but that there is no one to negotiate with on the other side. The attack on the blockade-busters lays bare the country’s slide into contempt for international law, intolerance of dissent and wilful sabotage of viable representation for Palestinians.