Proposed Georgia Law: Death Penalty for Abortions

desertdudeshj

http://www.newser.com/story/112773/georgia-state-rep-bobby-franklin-wants-to-make-miscarriages-abortions-punishable-by-death.html

And not just abortions but even miscarriages !

And just when you thought it could not get any whackier

Nebraska is thinking of declaring open season on Abortion docs ! 🙄

http://www.newser.com/story/112787/now-nebraska-could-make-killing-abortion-docs-legal.html

The article also states a similar bill was proposed in South Dakota aswell !

JoeTGF

It seems the liberal v conservative divide can't get any bigger than it does on abortion in the US. I for one am pro-choice but at the same time if it came down to it I would never choose for my partners to have an abortion.

Bethsmum

It seems the liberal v conservative divide can't get any bigger than it does on abortion in the US. I for one am pro-choice but at the same time if it came down to it I would never choose for my partners to have an abortion.

What about if the child had severe disabilities Joe?

event_horizon

The Nebraska bill, on the other hand, would allow any third party to do so, Mother Jones reports.

Christensen says he did not intend to target abortion providers, but simply wanted to allow pregnant women to defend their unborn children without being charged with a crime.

The Nebraska bill is proposing that persons have the legal right to defend an unborn child, just as anyone has the right to defend a child, including through the use of lethal force.

This was spun in the story as saying anyone could target abortion doctors.

But my view on that is, if you don't believe in targeting abortion doctors, just don't target an abortion doctor yourself.

JoeTGF

As I wrote that post that did cross my mind but I didn't want to add specific circumstances. I guess I just don't know but it would be the only one that would make me think. I would not want my child to have half a life but the alternative is no life at all - who am I to choose? Nevertheless it would be a tough decision and one I could probably only make once confronted with it.

A good friend of my wive's has just discovered that her unborn child will have a very severe disease (forgive me I don't know what it is) and she is getting an abortion but still struck with guilt and indecision. She has two girls and this one was a boy - so sad.

Bethsmum

That's a very sad story about your friend Joe, but it has to be the right decision in my opinion. Unfortunately I was in that position a long time ago when I was advised to go down that route by my doctor. I've never regretted it but I sometimes think about what might have been. Your friend's wife needs to be strong and comfort herself with the knowledge that it is best for both the family and the unborn child. If I had to make the decision again it would be the same one.

shafique

I initially thought that this might be about the country Georgia!

Wow, proposing to kill a woman for an abortion (and presumably the doctors, nurses etc would accessories to murder, if not murderers themselves). 😮

What is sad, is that these extremist views give religious people a bad name in general.

That this is usually done in the name of Christianity is doubly ironic - for Jesus' central message was one of forgiveness. He interceded on behalf of a convicted woman about to be stoned to death, for example.

But it goes to show - religious extremists are everywhere.

(I have no issue with pro-lifers in general - it is extremist views like this that I think give them a bad name.)

Cheers,
Shafique

Bethsmum

Shafique, wouldn't you call yourself a religious extremist? It does appear to be the only thing you can bang on about.

You never give a genuine reply to any post.

Bora_Bora

A fine example of people abusing their government positions for their own agenda. This is too crazy to even debate.

I don't see where religion comes into either article. It has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with making choices. The "whys" as to the people who chose to abort a fetus belongs to the person or persons who make that decision.

desertdudeshj

It goes as far as even miscarriages, now there are many cases of this happening naturally. If passed the woman is presumed guilty until proven innocent

His 10-page bill would make any “prenatal murder” a felony punishable by death or life in prison—and that includes miscarriages, in the event the woman cannot prove that there was "no human involvement whatsoever in the causation"

shafique

Bob Franklin, Christian Extremist:

Franklin is a fierce opponent of abortion and gay rights. Franklin holds that America has strayed from its Christian past and the country needs to be changed into a Christian nation. Franklin believes that legislation that is in direct opposition to God's word will bring about the wrath of God. In 2010, Franklin stated, "Islamic terrorism is not the greatest threat facing America. God is." Franklin claims that President George W. Bush "praises the gods of pagan religions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Franklin

And this is what at least one American lady thinks of his latest proposal in the OP:
http://www.angryblacklady.com/2011/02/23/christian-extremist-ga-rep-bobby-franklin-the-death-penalty-for-all/

😮

Cheers,
Shafique

Bora_Bora

It goes as far as even miscarriages, now there are many cases of this happening naturally. If passed the woman is presumed guilty until proven innocent

His 10-page bill would make any “prenatal murder” a felony punishable by death or life in prison—and that includes miscarriages, in the event the woman cannot prove that there was "no human involvement whatsoever in the causation"

Doesn't that tell you how nuts this guy is, not to mention ignorant!!!

event_horizon

The three major monotheistic faiths all teach that abortion, as a form of birth control, is wrong and advocate the rights of the unborn.

It is in the Muslim world where the rights of the unborn are protected the most. I see no reason to disagree with the three Monotheistic faiths that the unborn need protecting as much as the newborn.

I also believe we should accept the cultural sensitivities of the people of Georgia/Nebraska on where they decide to draw the line on murdering the innocent. I, for one, respect their cultural beliefs and would find it hypocritical to say it's ok for the people of the Muslim world to restrict abortion - ban it entirely as a form of birth control - but not being 'ok' if the people of the United States ban abortion.

shafique

I'm all for reasoned debates and I have no issues with pro-Lifers who are on the whole quite reasonable in their views about the sanctity of human life.

As I said before, it is the extremist fringe represented by Christian Extremists like Franklin that tarnish the reputation of the pro-lifers.

His calls for legislation seem to be directly related to his extremist view of scripture:
Franklin believes that legislation that is in direct opposition to God's word will bring about the wrath of God.

However, it is indeed a fact that the American people have voted for people with these extreme religious views into power. Whilst we may find their views distasteful or even dangerous (as indeed, the American lady I linked to does), - or even 'nuts and ignorant'. 😉

The fact remains they are in power because they were voted into power. Similar principles occur in other countries.

Cheers,
Shafique

event_horizon

Well, I certainly find it hypocritical to oppose someone who advocates a law based on his or her religious beliefs and then support others who advocate laws based on his or her religion.

shafique

Interesting line of reasoning there eh.

Christian extremist views are listed, and your reply is effectively 'but I BELIEVE you are an extremist too'.

Even if I was an extremist, how is that relevant in this thread? Surely this is about the Christian Extremist legislator wanting to women to be put to death for having abortions.

Please try and focus. The new DF is asking you to avoid personal attacks.

Cheers,
Shafique

event_horizon

I certainly sympathize with those Christians in Georgia/Nebraska/South Dakota. They are simply expressing their cultural values - for which they are being attacked.

Can't remember the last time their attackers would dare speak out against those who would lash someone for pre-marital s.ex or execute a child murderer because of their religious beliefs.

Red_Chief

Well, I certainly find it hypocritical to oppose someone who advocates a law based on his or her religious beliefs and then support others who advocate laws based on his or her religion.

It's exactly why the dude started this thread - them against us. The pot calling the kettle black. 😉

shafique

It is clear to me that the Christian extremists in Georgia etc are supporting this proposed law. (I'd say that not all Christians or all pro-lifers are in favour of the extremist law - but if you have evidence to the contrary, please refer me to it).

That they are doing so because of religious extremism is also a fact. There are plenty of posts on DF which criticise extremists of other religions when they propose laws or punishments that are viewed as extreme.

Killing of women for choosing an abortion is something that I would classify as extreme punishment, and I maintain that most pro-Lifers and most Christians would NOT support this Christian Extremist law.

This thread is not about what other religious extremists in other countries propose though - it is about this one particular elected Christian extremist and his extremist law.

At least we've now established that this IS about Christians expressing their wishes based on the Bible (Bora was saying earlier in the thread that there was no indication that this was about religion).

Cheers,
Shafique

event_horizon

Likewise, most Americans view proposing violent punishments for non-violent offenses an extremist position as well.

I guess this is a case of pot calling the kettle black.