Primitive Fear Of Arabs As Humans

Topic locked
  • Reply
Primitive Fear of Arabs as Humans Feb 07, 2011
Firing from the hip and based on facts/stats/evidence, this piece from Haaretz tackles some topical issues:

Overcoming the primitive fear of Arabs as humans

It seems that British Prime Minister David Cameron and other white Westerners have a primeval fear of the Arab mob.
By Merav Michaeli

British Prime Minister David Cameron said the other day that multiculturalism in his country has failed. It did not succeed in promoting a uniform identity, based on the principles of democracy. Cameron - exactly like German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who said the same thing in October - doesn't really mean multiculturalism in the sense of many and varied cultures, but is rather talking about the "existence of the ideology of extremist Islam." This despite the findings of a poll by the Open Society Institute that found that an overwhelming majority of 86 percent of Muslims living in Britain (who constitute only 3 million out of 62 million residents ), define themselves as British, and only after that as Muslims.

Thus, without any relation to the facts, what Cameron is basically saying is that "this swarthy Islam doesn't fit in so well in our nice white country." It seems that the white Westerner's primeval fear of the Arab mob is uncontrollable, and is sparked even if the mob is in Egypt and demanding freedom. Many Israelis who travel to London and return astounded by the fact that "the streets are full of Arabs," can probably relate. Indeed, this white, Western fear exists here to the same extent, and here too it is reinforced by the masses demonstrating in Egypt. So there's a good chance that we'll soon hear the prime minister or one of his ministers taking a page from Cameron in justifying more measures against the Arab community in Israel.

Yet, there is a difference between Cameron - who, like Nicolas Sarkozy, is addressing anyone who is Western, Christian and white, and excluding everything that is black and Muslim - and Merkel, who in her remarks recognized Islam as part of Germany, and took responsibility for her country's failure to integrate immigrants. Actually, she spoke a truth that is not uttered here: "We lied to ourselves, we thought they wouldn't stay long, that they would disappear one day. But that's not the reality."

Merkel insists that her immigrants and Muslim citizens speak the local language, obey the law and find jobs. In Germany, Britain and Israel, the Muslim and Arab minority speaks the local language and obeys the law, but when it comes to finding employment, the true meaning of multiculturalism emerges.

The demand for multiculturalism arises only when a minority is excluded and discriminated against. When a private individual of any religion or origin achieves equality, when the job market is open to him, when he leads a dignified life, when his personal and civil rights, including freedom of religion and culture, are maintained - there is no need for multiculturalism. The demand by a particular group or nationality for multiculturalism arises when a minority suffers from rejection in a society or state that does not want to include that religious, ethnic or national minority.

The problem is not multiculturalism, but discrimination, racism and deprivation. When members of such a minority suffer from inequality, poverty, unemployment and violence, they segregate in their group, with its religious and cultural values, because society at large does not allow them to integrate and adopt its values.

For a long time Arab society in Israel had no demands regarding nationality or identity. But after many years of discrimination and deprivation directed at Arab society as a whole, and racism and exclusion aimed at Arabs as individuals, in addition to the protracted occupation of the Palestinian people - Israeli Arab society has gradually developed into a national minority with demands. Nevertheless, its overwhelming majority is eager to integrate. Israel knows in principle that economically this integration is in its best interest. The question is, can it overcome the primitive fear of Arabs as human beings.


http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/op ... s-1.341728

shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Primitive Fear of Arabs as Humans Feb 07, 2011
(...)this swarthy Islam doesn't fit in so well in our nice white country." It seems that the white Westerner's primeval fear of the Arab mob is uncontrollable


Playing the racist victim card. Very predictable. Many coloured groups integrated very well, there does seem to be a specific problem with Muslims.

Indeed, this white, Western fear exists here to the same extent, and here too it is reinforced by the masses demonstrating in Egypt


LOL. Demonstrations in Egypt reinforced all that. LOL. Cannot get more ridiculous.

Yet, there is a difference between Cameron - who, like Nicolas Sarkozy, is addressing anyone who is Western, Christian and white, and excluding everything that is black and Muslim


The racist victim card again.

Merkel insists that her immigrants and Muslim citizens speak the local language, obey the law and find jobs. In Germany, Britain and Israel, the Muslim and Arab minority speaks the local language and obeys the law, but when it comes to finding employment, the true meaning of multiculturalism emerges.


I invite Merav to visit Gouda, Amsterdam-West, Utrecht or whatever city with a large Moroccan population. She probably doesn't dare, but still the invitation stands.

The problem is not multiculturalism, but discrimination, racism and deprivation. When members of such a minority suffer from inequality, poverty, unemployment and violence, they segregate in their group, with its religious and cultural values, because society at large does not allow them to integrate and adopt its values.


Yes, when you rob, harass women, spit on people on the street, there is apparently nothing wrong with you. Its society's fault. Get real!
Flying Dutchman
Dubai Forums Zealot
Posts: 3792
Location: Dubai

  • Reply
Re: Primitive Fear of Arabs as Humans Feb 07, 2011
It is also interesting to read Michaeli's article from last week, She makes equally valid observations in that too - and it is related to the subject matter in the OP. :

How to promote stability

The growing religious fundamentalism in Israel is actually Jewish, not Muslim.
By Merav Michaeli
Image
...


http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/op ... y-1.340273

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Primitive Fear of Arabs as Humans Feb 07, 2011
This is where Merav bases her thesis on according to the article that Israel is becoming more religious fundamentalist:

The Ministerial Committee for Legislation debates a bill that would ban the wearing in public of the burka, the garment worn by some Muslim women that covers the face and body. It's a proposal that the Palestinians angrily termed "a racist campaign against Palestinian identity in Israel" last summer.


A proposed bill for banning burka! Then she goes on, comparing the burka to the dress of religious Jewish women:

While there is no disputing this, the truth is there is no fundamental difference between the regular head coverings worn by Muslim and Jewish women. The disparity is only a matter of degree
Flying Dutchman
Dubai Forums Zealot
Posts: 3792
Location: Dubai

  • Reply
Re: Primitive Fear of Arabs as Humans Feb 07, 2011
Image

Will someone Identify this lady ? Im curious what the rest of her looks like ?
zubber
Dubai Forums Veteran
User avatar
Posts: 1459
Location: x222222

  • Reply
Re: Primitive Fear Of Arabs As Humans Feb 07, 2011
LOL - just do a Google search, you may get lucky.

In regards to the tag line to the second article - it is merely quoting the fact in the closing paragraph:

The growing religious fundamentalism in Israel is actually Jewish, not Muslim. While the Arab population here becomes more secular, the religious Jewish public is getting stronger. Instead of fearing Muslims in power in Egypt and Israel, it is worth setting our sights on Jewish fundamentalism and the latest law that it is promoting.


Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Primitive Fear of Arabs as Humans Feb 07, 2011
zubber wrote:Will someone Identify this lady ? Im curious what the rest of her looks like ?


Dude WTF ?
desertdudeshj
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 6258

  • Reply
Re: Primitive Fear Of Arabs As Humans Feb 07, 2011
The growing religious fundamentalism in Israel is actually Jewish, not Muslim. While the Arab population here becomes more secular, the religious Jewish public is getting stronger. Instead of fearing Muslims in power in Egypt and Israel, it is worth setting our sights on Jewish fundamentalism and the latest law that it is promoting.


As in the article of the OP, the writer doesnt seem to realize there is a difference between Arabs and Muslims and vica versa.
Flying Dutchman
Dubai Forums Zealot
Posts: 3792
Location: Dubai

  • Reply
Re: Primitive Fear of Arabs as Humans Feb 07, 2011
Firing from the hip and based on [selective] facts/stats/evidence, this piece from Haaretz tackles some topical issues:


Fixed it for you.

It doesn't help the author's credibility much if she/he is only willing to cite certain polls of British Muslims to make a point.

For that one single poll, I could show a half dozen others showing British Muslims are far from integrated - by integrated, adopting the views and beliefs of most British citizens - from homophobic attitudes, to racism against Jews to hatred and prejudice against non-Muslims/Westerners to desiring to replace a rights-based system of governance with their own laws most in Britain would detest to criminalizing speech that for years before the massive Muslim influx no British citizens in sizable numbers had any problems with.
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: Primitive Fear Of Arabs As Humans Feb 07, 2011
Ms Michaeli says:

The growing religious fundamentalism in Israel is actually Jewish, not Muslim. While the Arab population here becomes more secular, the religious Jewish public is getting stronger. Instead of fearing Muslims in power in Egypt and Israel, it is worth setting our sights on Jewish fundamentalism and the latest law that it is promoting.


Is there any evidence that she is wrong in stating that the Arab population is becoming more secular (this would apply to Arabs of all religious beliefs, wouldn't it?) - the fundamentalism that is on the rise isn't amongst the Christian Arabs and Muslim Arabs, but amongst the Jews.

The fear, though, is indeed directed at the Muslims - so I think she's completely right to point that out. The ones who confuse Arabs with Muslims are the ones she's criticising, not the Arabs themselves.

But hey - I understand that as you guys can't actually tackle the main points in her articles, you've really got to scrape the barrel and invent issues to complain about. Disapointed, but not surprised.

I can sense the frustration at the fact this was written by a Jewish Israeli journalist. ;)

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Primitive Fear Of Arabs As Humans Feb 07, 2011
I'll bet Arabs in the UK are a minority in the UK Muslim community. Some other absurdities of the articles have already been pointed out.

I also see that poster Shafique already starts with the personal card and personal attacks and starts repeating the same quote over and over again. Very weak.

The growing religious fundamentalism in Israel is actually Jewish, not Muslim. While the Arab population here becomes more secular, the religious Jewish public is getting stronger. Instead of fearing Muslims in power in Egypt and Israel, it is worth setting our sights on Jewish fundamentalism and the latest law that it is promoting.
Flying Dutchman
Dubai Forums Zealot
Posts: 3792
Location: Dubai

  • Reply
Re: Primitive Fear of Arabs as Humans Feb 08, 2011
I've always been under the impression that Britain has done more for her immigrants and minorities in the past two or three decades than mainland Europe has. (FD, as a continental European, perhaps could share your POV?)

But the author of this piece informs us that Britain's failure to assimilate her minorities/immigrants has led to the growth of Islamic radicalization.

Which brings us to some questions which need addressing. Why didn't the author address the absence of Sikh or Hindu radicalization when she claimed that Britain has failed her minorities/immigrant community? Are large immigrant communities now being erased when their presence gets in the way of pre-determined belief?

Why do we see in France, which has a much worse track record than Britain at assimilation and multiculturalism, a Muslim population that is several fold more tolerant and pluralistic than Britain's Muslim population - which is actually shown as being one of the most militarized Muslim societies in the world and by far the most radical in the West?

But I'm sure we'll get someone in here to tell us we're not addressing this well thought out article or something like that.
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: Primitive Fear Of Arabs As Humans Feb 08, 2011
^So, that'll be a

'No, we have no evidence that the Israeli journalist is wrong when she says that it is Jewish religious fundamentalism that is on the rise in Israel. And we can't address her main points.'

The smoke and mirrors was weak this time round guys - must try harder. ;)

Just because you want to believe that the 'primitive fears of Arabs' is justified - doesn't make it so.

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Primitive Fear of Arabs as Humans Feb 08, 2011
event horizon wrote:I've always been under the impression that Britain has done more for her immigrants and minorities in the past two or three decades than mainland Europe has. (FD, as a continental European, perhaps could share your POV?)


I wouldnt know really. The history and origin of immigration is also quite different though.

event horizon wrote:But the author of this piece informs us that Britain's failure to assimilate her minorities/immigrants has led to the growth of Islamic radicalization.


Well, many other group integrated very well.

event horizon wrote: Why didn't the author address the absence of Sikh or Hindu radicalization when she claimed that Britain has failed her minorities/immigrant community? Are large immigrant communities now being erased when their presence gets in the way of pre-determined belief?


Thats were the OP article gets absurd indeed. She blames it on the "white" attitude of European. She cannot explain why so many other non-Muslim coloured groups integrated so well.
Flying Dutchman
Dubai Forums Zealot
Posts: 3792
Location: Dubai

  • Reply
Re: Primitive Fear of Arabs as Humans Feb 08, 2011
event horizon wrote:
But the author of this piece informs us that Britain's failure to assimilate her minorities/immigrants has led to the growth of Islamic radicalization.


Why do you think people should be assimilated before they are allowed to integrate?
Anyone who cannot manage to integrate him/herself cannot be assimilated, that's for sure...

Then there comes the question of what's meant to be understood from integration...in which I think lies all the variation of problems due to ingrained local systems/pre-conditions for generations that cannot be easily undone...and this is where I think discrimination, racism and deprivation comes into play...
Berrin
Dubai Forums Veteran
User avatar
Posts: 1390

  • Reply
Re: Primitive Fear of Arabs as Humans Feb 08, 2011
I don't understand what you're asking.

But my above point I was making was that British citizens had no problems with certain forms of speech until 1o years ago.

Now a significant percentage of a minority group wants speech that they are offended by to be made a criminal offense.

Wouldn't it be weird if some guests came over to your house and started telling you that you couldn't say certain things in your own home that you've been saying for all your time there and that no one had been bothered by until these guests showed up?
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

posting in Dubai Politics TalkForum Rules

Return to Dubai Politics Talk


cron