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Normally people are not polarized and get along well, but things take different turn in conversation when they have so much common ground.

And from practical perspective I personally know people who have worked on women issues and they have been very successful with a different approach.

So polarizing discussions really help or they make it worse?

I have no problems being friends with or getting along with men who don't view women as equals and who get uncomortable with feminist issues. Change doesn't happen overnight. Women shouldn't remain silent so that they don't rock the boat. Hopefully my topics have provoked some consideration of the double standards and biases that exist that result in the unfair judging and treatment of women. In my society, women's rights has advanced by leaps and bounds compared to other societies precisely because women speak out and organize socially and politically to effect change. More generations of women have been raising their boys to think of their mothers, sisters, aunts, grandmothers and wives as fellow human beings who are deserving of equal treatment. The laws in my country afford me the same rights as men, but this doesn't happen in other countries... Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there isn't any bias and injustice still - its all a work in progress. Even men face se.xist biases that they shouldn't be. Anyhow, I'm not the slightest bit apologetic about my feminist opinions or discussions. If someone doesn't like what I have to say they don't have to read it. If someone doesn't want to be my friend because of it, so be it.

I don't have issues women speaking out against women problems I personally know women who have gone to villages helped women educate, worked against female infecticide, worked against laws, or patriarchal mistreatment of women. One example I gave http://www.tejaspatel.com/2010/02/hats- ... arat-daud/ I personally know her, and supported her and supports in everything she does. And the succesful ones I know like this one, didn't do it in a confrontational way, they worked within the cultural values of those women.

But if you are talking about men wearing trunks and some women wearing abyas on beaches of Dubai, that is simply superficial view of inequality. Taking example from my own family there are both kinds of women in my family who prefer to wear abya on beach and other don't. The one who wear abya won't take it off, even if somebody asked them to.

Topics haven't changed anything for me, it just showed how superficial views some people have (like wearing less clothes gonna change the real issues women are facing, many women choose to wear conservative clothing by themselves) and they still hang on to those to those superficial views even if facts are shown to them.

By the way, I'm neither liberal and nor conservative.

kanelli wrote:If someone doesn't like what I have to say they don't have to read it. If someone doesn't want to be my friend because of it, so be it.

It is not like that you are free to say what you want, but listen to others too. But I wasn't talking about anybody here I said "from practical perspective I personally know people who have worked on women issues and they have been very successful with a different approach." Why did you took that personally and totally out of context?

Nucleus, are you saying that this thread was not directed at me?

I must have missed the part where I said that a woman's clothing is all that feminism is. Perhaps you are the one with a superficial view of feminism?

What is female infecticide? Did you mean female infanticide? I'm 100% supportive of women who are out making changes. I too participate in feminist causes and have done so since my teens.

How about you men? When is the last time you were actively trying to support women's issues like fair treatment under the law. E.g. Have many Emirati men been petitioning the UAE rulers to remove laws that allow a husband to beat a wife. How about protesting the incarceration of women who come forward to report their rape? How about writing a letter to protest when rapists are let off with suspended sentences while the victims get jail sentences and deportation? Are there many Egyptian men outraged and protesting at the se.xual harrassment and abuse of women that has been increasing since the Arab Spring? Are masses of men in India, Yemen, South Africa, or Iran speaking out to end the legal practice of marrying off female children? When you are hanging out with friends, do you discuss current news stories that present the latest injustices done to a woman or groups of women wherever it may be happening in the world? Do you sometimes feel shocked at how differently men and women are treated and are you comfortable with the cultural or religious reasons given for doing so?

kanelli wrote:Nucleus, are you saying that this thread was not directed at me?

It wasn't specifically directed at you, it was a general forum post.

kanelli wrote: Did you mean female infanticide?

Yes.

kanelli wrote:How about you men? When is the last time you were actively trying to support women's issues like fair treatment under the law. E.g. Have many Emirati men been petitioning the UAE rulers to remove laws that allow a husband to beat a wife. How about protesting the incarceration of women who come forward to report their rape? How about writing a letter to protest when rapists are let off with suspended sentences while the victims get jail sentences and deportation? Are there many Egyptian men outraged and protesting at the se.xual harrassment and abuse of women that has been increasing since the Arab Spring? Are masses of men in India, Yemen, South Africa, or Iran speaking out to end the legal practice of marrying off female children?

If you are assuming I don't support against these you are coming from some preconcieved notions. In previous discussion if you had noticed where some of these issues came up I did show support against these things. These are the real issues in my opinion. Ive supported against those, I know both men and women who are working against those.

It is not a black and white world where men are against women.

kanelli wrote:When you are hanging out with friends, do you discuss current news stories that present the latest injustices done to a woman or groups of women wherever it may be happening in the world? Do you sometimes feel shocked at how differently men and women are treated and are you comfortable with the cultural or religious reasons given for doing so?

Yes but in what way? People who are actually changing things and trying to make a change they try to find ways that can progress, and they are from their own communities who understand stand sensitivities better and how to work through them to work on the real issues. You rarely read about them in media. Even if somebody print their story in the media they mainly go unnoticed. They don't recieve much sensation, perhaps because they are not sensational.

This is my last response, I would rather spend my time productively instead on some pointless jibber jabber.

Nucleus, I know you have posted things which show some concern for feminist issues. I wasn't directing all my comments to you, but I can see how it can be interpreted that way because I did refer to you at the start of my post.

I'm getting the message loud and clear that I should only stick to feminist issues in my country... but I don't agree with that. ;D

kanelli wrote:I'm getting the message loud and clear that I should only stick to feminist issues in my country... but I don't agree with that.

You are coming like telling a nun to take off scraf and dress differently like that would improve women issues.

That is completely untrue. After all that I posted it makes me really sad that that is what you came away with.

kanelli wrote:That is completely untrue. After all that I posted it makes me really sad that that is what you came away with.

Sorry, if I misunderstood, but it felt that way.

kanelli wrote:I have no problems being friends with or getting along with men who don't view women as equals

You've got very low self-esteem.