Please Help Us!

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Please help us! Jul 10, 2010
Thats what the Palestinians in Lebanese refugee camps and the people from Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, Turkey and Iran must be thinking.

Almost every day we can read a plan for a new flotilla sailing for Gaza.

But by every possible indicator Gazans are better of than the Palestinians in Lebanese refugee camps and the people from Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, Tukey and Iran.

Infant mortality in Gaza is around 18 per thousand; in Turkey it is close to 25. The global average is 44 infants per 1,000 births. Gaza is doing much better than the global average!
In Iran infant mortality is over 34: double than Gaza. Life expectancy in Iran (71) is less than Gaza.
Other number about life expectancy:
-Turkey: 72
-Yemen: 63
-Sudan: 52
-Somalia: 50
-Global average: 66

Gaza: 73

Regarding population growth, Gaza ranks 6th in the world!

Glasgow-East is worse of than Gaza:

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/health/factcheck+glasgow+worse+than+gaza/2320267

No coincidence an Egyptian journalist is wishing a 'brutal sieg' for Egypt.

Do I dare saying Gazans are better of than most of their Arab brethern? Maybe...

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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 10, 2010
It must really irk the fanbois that the Israeli line 'it's not that bad in Gaza' doesn't seem to be being swallowed by the world at large. Fanbois really like their selective quotes, it appears.

But then again, perhaps it has something to do with reports such as this one from Amnesty International from this year:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-upda ... 2010-06-01
..Mass unemployment, extreme poverty and food price rises caused by shortages have left four in five Gazans dependent on humanitarian aid. As a form of collective punishment, Israel’s continuing blockade of Gaza is a flagrant violation of international law.
...

Collective punishment
The Israeli authorities have put forward a range of justifications for the blockade - saying variously that it is a response to attacks from Palestinian armed groups, a reaction to the continued holding of the captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, and a means to pressure the Hamas de facto administration.

But whatever its stated justification, the blockade is collectively punishing the entire population of Gaza, the majority of whom are children, rather than targeting the Hamas administration or armed groups.



It's fascinating that the fanbois are using a variation on the theme 'well Mussolini got the trains to run on time'! Point out that the UN and pretty much everyone else are calmly pointing out that Israel is committing crimes against humanity, and you get a barrage of nonsense about Prof Falk, ungrateful Palestinian mothers etc - anything but a concession that Israel is breaking laws.


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Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 10, 2010
As to no surprise, no reference to the people who really need help. The idea for the thread was because Pali's in refugee camps in Lebanon are worse of than Gazans. Still Lebanese find it necessary to send a flotilla to Gazans and not help people under their eyes.

According to the UN there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Food prizes in Gaza are lower than in Egypt. Food is stocked 'wall to wall' in Gaza according to the Washington Post.

For those who wonder where the Hamas leadership dines in Gaza:

http://www.rootsclub.ps/
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 11, 2010
FD - did you provide any evidence that Palestinians living in Lebanon (not under siege) are worse off than those living under siege in Gaza? I didn't see any stats relating to Palestinians living in Lebanon. You're not resorting to your bad habit of fabricating statistics again?

But let's look at one indicator - infant mortality under Israeli occupation is 18 per 1000, infant mortality in Israel is 3.6, and 11.6 in Lebanon. (Actually the WHO says the infant mortality in the occupied terrritories is 23.6! :shock:)

Fail.


I thought I did refer to the people who are under Israeli occupation and linked to Amnesty's report about the state of those under Israel's medieval siege.

As for the Palestinian refugees in other countries - they are all waiting for Israel to end the occupation of land conquered in 1967 too.

As for Loon/fanboi propaganda - who believes them any more? ;)

http://www.gaza-strophe.com/eng/index.htm

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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 11, 2010
Starting to look like a Dutch Habit, same as RG who would pull out imaginary facts from his arse.
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Re: Please help us! Jul 11, 2010
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2002rank.html



http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArchiveDetails.aspx?ID=169701

Three years after intense fighting destroyed the Nahr al-Bared Palestinian refugee camp, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) said that while it is intensifying efforts to rebuild the camp, it faces a financial crisis “unprecedented in scale.”
“We are $209 million short of funds for the reconstruction of Nahr a-Bared. We are struggling to find the funds to provide the displaced residents of Nahr al-Bared with the most basic needs of food and shelter until their homes are rebuilt. Economic opportunity is the basis for stability and progress. We must address the current lack of access to such opportunity to avoid fuelling renewed instability,” UNRWA head Salvatore Lombardo said in a statement on Wednesday.
The 2007 conflict between the Lebanese army and Fatah al-Islam militants left 27,000 refugees displaced. By the end of the year, UNRWA says it hopes to have 2,000 refugees return to their newly constructed homes.
“This should begin to alleviate the very tough conditions that have existed in Nahr al-Bared for the past three years, with many families cramped into converted garages and temporary accommodation units, and all education in the camp taking place in prefabricated buildings on a double-shift basis,” Lombardo said.
Last month, displaced residents called for a popular sit-in to call on the UNRWA to carry out its commitment to pay their rent allowance, which was reduced from $200 to $150.
Meanwhile, US Ambassador to Lebanon Michele Sison last week announced a new $20 million donation from Washington to the Nahr al-Bared reconstruction project.


UNRWA cannot count on Arab/Muslim donations. The humanitarian distress is not of interest to them.

World wide obsesitas figures 2004:

obs.jpg


I hope this number has been improved in 2010.
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 11, 2010
FD - help me out here.

Where in the CIA factbook pages does it say that Palestinians living under siege in Gaza have it better than those living in Lebanon?

Where does the NowLebanon quote make this comparison?

And what are you trying to show from the 2004 obesity stats - I couldn't see Gaza in that list either.


Have you started celebrating the World Cup final early?

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Re: Please help us! Jul 11, 2010
On NowLebanon an interview is available with the head of UNRWA in Lebanon, Salvatore Lombardo:

in comparison with other [branches of UNRWA] we have in Lebanon the highest number of what we call “special-hardship cases”, which is “the poor of the poor”. We have 50,000 people in this situation, 20 to 30 percent of the [Palestinian] population, who live in deplorable poverty conditions. This is the highest percentage compared to all other [areas].
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 11, 2010
FD - so the CIA stats and 2004 obesity stats were just thrown in for fun? I asked what they had to do with the request for evidence that Gazan residents are better off than those not living under siege in Lebanon.

I still can't see where the UNRWA says the situation of the Palestinians in Lebanon is worse that the situation for the 1.5 million under siege in Gaza. He says there are 50,000 very poor refugees in Lebanon - the UN also reports that 80% (i.e. over 1 million) Gazans are dependant on food aid.

(And what is it with a lack of links with you? Can you give us the link to the interview so I can check it out)



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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 11, 2010
Ok, I found the story:

http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArchiveDe ... ?ID=170562

Here's a quote:
Why is there such a situation in Lebanon and not in other Arab countries hosting Palestinian refugees?

Lombardo: There are different reasons. One is obviously their lack of access to socio-economic rights, the right to work especially. It’s true that a number of Palestinians work informally, but the lack of social security, the low payments, the lack of a recognized wage… This certainly has an impact on them. And then there is obviously the procrastination of the situation that has been going on for a long time; there is nothing being done to improve their situation.

An improvement of the situation of the Palestinians would be an improvement for Lebanon too, because if you add a group of individuals who live in better conditions and they’re happy, you’ll have an improvement in the situation in the country.

Another factor is that there hasn’t been a solution for 60 years. And the right of return, which represents the absolute priority for everyone – the Palestinians, the Lebanese and for us as well – is not there. The stagnant peace process… This is certainly not helping to see a solution nearby; on the contrary.


However, I still can't see where he compares the bad situation in Lebanon with the whole of the Gazan population living under siege.

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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 11, 2010
This whole thread is ridiculas, even if whatever being said was true at best you would be saying something like. The prisoner on death row in the US is living better and is more healthy than the majority of the population of the in the third world. Which is true.
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Re: Please help us! Jul 11, 2010
Do people on death row have microwaves in their cell?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/02/AR2010060204687.html

Yet if you walk down Gaza City's main thoroughfare -- Salah al-Din Street -- grocery stores are stocked wall-to-wall with everything from fresh Israeli yogurts and hummus to Cocoa Puffs smuggled in from Egypt. Pharmacies look as well-supplied as a typical Rite Aid in the United States.
"When Western people come, they have this certain image of Gaza," said Omar Shaban, an economist who heads Pal-Think for Strategic Studies in Gaza. "We have microwaves in our homes, not only me, everybody. If you go to a refugee camp, the house is bad, but the people and the equipment are very modern. The problem is the public infrastructure."
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 11, 2010
Yawn.

What more quotes when I ask for evidence?

FD - just enjoy the world cup final and stop making up stories - no one is listening to you any more.

Your selective quoting is getting even more desperate - in the paragraph preceding the one you quote, it says:
Gazans lament where they can't go more than what they can't buy. They also decry the lack of employment -- with no building supplies and few trade possibilities, joblessness is rampant. Once an exporter of fruits and other goods, Gaza has been turned into a mini-welfare state with a broken economy where food and daily goods are plentiful, but where 80 percent of the population depends on charity. Hospitals, schools, electricity systems and sewage treatment facilities are all in deep disrepair.


So, having microwaves is hardly a sign they are better off than Palestinians living in Lebanon where they are not under siege.

Sigh.


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Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 11, 2010
Charity from the EU, US and UNRWA (with virtually no Arab donations). Yes, UNRWA also has an office in Gaza, as a poster in this thread forgot. :?
Local Gazan sellers are already complaining about the flooding of food, which ruins their business. :shock:
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Re: Please help us! Jul 11, 2010
A word of advice FD.

In future, instead of saying things which you can't back up with evidence.. such as:
Flying Dutchman wrote:But by every possible indicator Gazans are better of than the Palestinians in Lebanese refugee camps ...


Why don't you stick to the truth... eg:

'But by every possible imagined statistic, we want to persuade others that Israel is not really as bad as all the international crimes, videos, photos etc that are out there. Please, please believe me (and don't ask us for any statistical evidence for our beliefs). Oh, and all Muslims are war mongerers anyway - don't you know'.

Enjoy the final tonight. ;)

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Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 11, 2010
LOL, 70% of Gazans can follow DF:

http://www.neareastconsulting.com/surveys/all/p43/out_ct_region_t1.php

cell phone per population:
Sudan 27%
Somalia 6%
Cuba 3%
Gaza 58%

But Gaza is worse of than Canada: 64%
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 11, 2010
Yawn.

I understand that 97.485% of Dutch don't believe in your spin and 98.636% of DFs don't care. ;)

(Hey, this pulling stats out of one's ar.se saves a lot of time! :alien: )

BTW, did you decide to start this thread before or after you clicked on this link:
http://www.gaza-strophe.com/eng/index.htm

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Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 11, 2010
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=285242

Gaza – Ma'an – Gaza's first Olympic-standard swimming pool was inaugurated at the As-Sadaka club during a ceremony on Tuesday held by the Islamic Society.
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 11, 2010
Given that there are more than one Olympic-sized swimming pools in Lebanon, are you now providing evidence that Gaza is (after all) in a worse off situation than Lebanon? Or perhaps you're applauding what the government is doing despite the siege?

I see no refutation that 80% are dependant on food aid or any real evidence to back up your claim that Lebanese residents are worse off than Gazans.

Must try harder.

Given that Israel is having to loosen the siege and Bibi is arguing (perversely) that this is now in Israel's interest to loosen the siege, what is the point in trying to falsely paint Gaza as a peaceful haven?

You forgot to answer this question:
shafique wrote:BTW, did you decide to start this thread before or after you clicked on this link:
http://www.gaza-strophe.com/eng/index.htm



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Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 12, 2010
Flying Dutchman
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Re: Please help us! Jul 12, 2010
Hey, after the failure last night - let me help you out in the name of charity.

Here's an extract from the Jerusalem Post piece in 'Gaza - A Paradise' thread:

SO WHO are these goddamn Jew-haters and their boats, The Rachel Corrie – the “St. Pancake” they should call it. Who are these Nazi human rights organizations? And who is this John Ging, this terrorist who runs UNRWA in Gaza? “We recommend the world send ships to Gaza,” he says. “Breaking the siege on Gaza is possible.”

We should put him on a ship and sink it.

The UN. Anti-Semites, all of them. They try to make everything in Gaza look terrible. Read this garbage by the “UN Office for the Coordinator of Humanitarian Affairs, Occupied Palestinian Territory.” (“Occupied.” I love that.) They put out a report every week about how awful it is for the poor Palestinians. Look at this crap from their last one, for May 12-18:

“Imports of industrial fuel to operate the Gaza power plant further declined this week… this week’s figure represents 27 percent of the actual estimated weekly amount of fuel required for the power plant to operate at full capacity. As a result, the majority of the population continues to experience power cuts of eight to 12 hours per day, forcing them to rely on generators run by fuel… These generators, which are imported largely through tunnels under the Gaza-Egypt border, can be unsafe… [A] generator fire broke out inside a house this week, killing two members of one family and injuring five others. Since the beginning of the year, 31 Palestinians have been killed and 41 others injured in generator-related incidents.”

They’re not careful – that’s our fault? They probably started the fires on purpose to blame it on Israel. Here’s some more garbage:

“Quantities of imported cooking gas also further declined this week… representing only 64% of the average weekly needs… As shortfalls continue, the rationing scheme for cooking gas, introduced in November 2009, remains in place.”

Oh, too bad, they won’t be able to heat their ice cream. A tragedy. Now look what big, bad Israel is doing to the poor fisherman in Gaza:

“Israeli restrictions on Palestinian access to fishing areas beyond three nautical miles from shore also continued to be enforced; in at least two incidents this week, Israeli naval vessels opened ‘warning’ fire toward Palestinian fishing boats, forcing them ashore.”

dubai-politics-talk/gaza-paradise-jerusalem-post-t42064.html

I mean, it's a bit rich to quote the UN report from May 2010 as 'fact' (even in a sarcastic way) - but as the Israeli government says, Gaza is a paradise and who is the 'UN' etc to contradict this?

I presume you'll not be ordering Paella or Octopus for lunch (or will you?) :mrgreen:

(Note even though as an actuary I'm itching to tell you that crude death rates are influenced by age profile and need to be standardised for this before comparing two countries, I'll gloss over that fact and also won't remind you today that you still haven't answered the question I posed above)

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Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 12, 2010
http://backspin.typepad.com/backspin/2008/09/scenes-from-the.html

Lauren Booth in 'the largest concentration camp of the world'.

They accepted Master Card.
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 12, 2010
Life expectancy under occupation 73 years, life expectancy in Israel 79 years (at birth).

Jerusalem Post wrote:Gaza is a paradise if Foreign Ministry statements are any indication.
Don’t you just wish you lived in Gaza? Don’t you just envy those people who get to raise their kids amid such abundance? Look at all the stuff they’ve got:

“Truckloads of meat, poultry, fish, dairy products, fruits, vegetables, milk powder, baby food, wheat and other staples arrive in Gaza on a daily basis,” said the Foreign Ministry in advance of the “Freedom Flotilla,” due to either reach Gaza or get intercepted by the navy today.


BTW, did you decide to start this thread before or after you clicked on this link:
http://www.gaza-strophe.com/eng/index.htm
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Re: Please help us! Jul 12, 2010
http://travel.mapsofworld.com/palestine/gaza-tours/restaurants-in-gaza.html

Which restaurant to choose?

The different dishes served in the varied Restaurants in Gaza will make your trip to the city a memorable one. There are many Restaurants in Gaza that offer unlimited opportunities to savor the traditional dishes of the country.

There are many types of Restaurants in Gaza. Tourists as well as locals can savor both traditional and regional flavors of the country. The dishes served in the varied restaurants of the hotel make use of a wide range of local ingredients. The restaurants serve vegetarian as well as non- vegetarian dishes that are prepared with extreme care and precision. You can relish the tortillas and the fajitas.

There are also many restaurants that serve excellent range of international dishes. There are some of the best Mexican restaurants in the city of Gaza. Apart from these there are many specialty restaurants in the city. Locals as well as tourists come to the different snack parlor and the cafe clubs that are scattered throughout the city. Locals mainly visit these places because of the quick services and the reasonable prices of the food. Visitors can relish a variety of local snacks that are prepared with great care.

The prices of the dishes mainly vary from one place to the other. Prices of dishes in most cases are usually moderate excepting a handful number of places. Most of the restaurants of Palestine are beautifully decorated. One can sit and relax in the cozy corners of the restaurants and can have a wide range of dishes. The staff of the restaurants is also friendly.

You can easily get a seat for yourself in the different Restaurants in Gaza. But on festive occasions seats are not available so easily. So it would be wise to book a table for yourself on the different special occasions.

All the Gaza restaurants are well located. There are varied ways of transportation in the city. You can avail any of the different means of transport to reach your destinations. Even if you walk around the city you would come across many restaurants and eateries.
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 12, 2010
Infant mortality in Gaza strip is about 425% of that in Israel (for every one infant death in Israel - per thousand population, there are 4.25 in Gaza strip).
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... 1rank.html

And yet the spin continues.

You're not avoiding my question are you:
BTW, did you decide to start this thread before or after you clicked on this link:
http://www.gaza-strophe.com/eng/index.htm



I understand that you guys hate coming 2nd in competitions - but hey, look on the bright side - you made it to the finals. No need to keep flogging dead horses that even Jersusalem Post thinks is pure propaganda.

But, carry on if it makes you feel a bit better (but don't forget to answer my simple question). ;)

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Shafique
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Re: Please help us! Jul 18, 2010
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Re: Please help us! Jul 18, 2010
Sounds like the infant mortality rate in Gaza is about the same as it is in the W. Bank and Mexico........
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 18, 2010
So, no dispute that a child born in Israel is 4 times less likely to die as infant than a child born a few miles away under Israeli siege conditions. But hey, given that the same number of Mexicans are also dying - that's ok then.

They have swimming pools and luxury malls, after all - just like Mumbai and Rio. ;)

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Re: Please help us! Jul 18, 2010
Gazans not happy with food aid and fridges (it ruines the market):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3smJH8jb6M

:shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: Please Help Us! Jul 18, 2010
Hey, let me help you out with the Israeli govt propaganda:
dubai-politics-talk/gaza-paradise-jerusalem-post-t42064.html#p338325

You'll find other funny references to football teams to go with the swimming pools, restaurants etc.

Didn't convince Jerusalem Post back in May, but you don't seem to have got the message. ;)

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