Too bad Hamas has a history preventing Gazans to the Hajj.
Where is their flotilla?:
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- Flying Dutchman
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FD - I applaud your tenacity. You should really put yourself up for an award from the Israelis for taking on this lost cause. You do realise that the loons/fanbois that believe the spin is a small minority, don't you?
It must really hurt you guys to see that the siege of Gaza has been an epic failure and that Bibi has had to make such an embarrassing u-turn and claim that LIFTING the siege is now in Israel's best interest.
(See thread: Haaretz: Are loons dumb)
But hey, if you want to continue to flog this dead horse.. let me respond to your latest attempts at spin:
As for the loon propaganda above in the poster - it Fails on a number of levels.
Firstly, Darfur is the most Muslim region of Sudan - all are Muslim there. All are ethnically black, all speak Arabic. The 'Arabs' and the 'Blacks' are the same race, religion and nationality - just different tribes or different social status' within the tribes. Therefore the loon caption 'not Arab enough' is an epic failure (but an understandable one if one doesn't go beyond the media headlines). In Darfur Sudanese Arabic speaking Black Muslims are fighting Sudanese Arabic speaking Black Muslims. (And please don't confuse this clarification with any sort of condoning of the violence and suffering taking place there.)
As for the photos of the Gazans making the most of life under siege last year - it is heart-warming to see that banned chocolate was smuggled in so that the children did not have go without. I can imagine FD arguing that the Warsaw Ghetto under Hitler wasn't too bad a place because those living there drank wine each Sabbath and danced on holidays!
But is FD really arguing that Israel is as bad as the Janui in Darfur? !!
Has FD forgotten the destruction wreaked by Israel that refuses to send in construction material:
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/at-wha ... r-comfort/
But that said, fascinating how when presented with evidence that the Israeli govt spin is being dismissed in Israel (as well as being ridiculed by the rest of the world), the loons try and change tack and invoke the tu quoque argument.
What must really make loons/fanbois hearts drop is the repeated reports that contradict the Israeli spin. Not least the pronouncement from Baroness Ashton yesterday that the Gaza siege should be totally lifted.
Anyway, call me crazeeee, but I'm siding with these guys and rejecting the Israeli line:
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=18895
Cheers,
Shafique
It must really hurt you guys to see that the siege of Gaza has been an epic failure and that Bibi has had to make such an embarrassing u-turn and claim that LIFTING the siege is now in Israel's best interest.
(See thread: Haaretz: Are loons dumb)
But hey, if you want to continue to flog this dead horse.. let me respond to your latest attempts at spin:
shafique wrote:Hey, let me help you out with the Israeli govt propaganda:
dubai-politics-talk/gaza-paradise-jerusalem-post-t42064.html#p338325
You'll find other funny references to football teams to go with the swimming pools, restaurants etc.
Didn't convince Jerusalem Post back in May, but you don't seem to have got the message.
As for the loon propaganda above in the poster - it Fails on a number of levels.
Firstly, Darfur is the most Muslim region of Sudan - all are Muslim there. All are ethnically black, all speak Arabic. The 'Arabs' and the 'Blacks' are the same race, religion and nationality - just different tribes or different social status' within the tribes. Therefore the loon caption 'not Arab enough' is an epic failure (but an understandable one if one doesn't go beyond the media headlines). In Darfur Sudanese Arabic speaking Black Muslims are fighting Sudanese Arabic speaking Black Muslims. (And please don't confuse this clarification with any sort of condoning of the violence and suffering taking place there.)
As for the photos of the Gazans making the most of life under siege last year - it is heart-warming to see that banned chocolate was smuggled in so that the children did not have go without. I can imagine FD arguing that the Warsaw Ghetto under Hitler wasn't too bad a place because those living there drank wine each Sabbath and danced on holidays!
But is FD really arguing that Israel is as bad as the Janui in Darfur? !!
Has FD forgotten the destruction wreaked by Israel that refuses to send in construction material:
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/at-wha ... r-comfort/
But that said, fascinating how when presented with evidence that the Israeli govt spin is being dismissed in Israel (as well as being ridiculed by the rest of the world), the loons try and change tack and invoke the tu quoque argument.
What must really make loons/fanbois hearts drop is the repeated reports that contradict the Israeli spin. Not least the pronouncement from Baroness Ashton yesterday that the Gaza siege should be totally lifted.
Anyway, call me crazeeee, but I'm siding with these guys and rejecting the Israeli line:
Gaza: Blockade 'Easing' not enough, say leading NGOs, as EU's Baroness Ashton visits
Posted: 18 July 2010
Amnesty International UK, Broederlijk Delen, CAFOD, Christian Aid, Christian Aid Ireland, CCFD, Cordaid, Diakonia, FIDH, Finn Church Aid, Handicap International, ICCO, IKV Pax Christi, Medical Aid to the Palestinians, medico international, Quaker Council for European Affairs, Secours Islamique, War Child UK
The EU must insist on the full lifting of the blockade of Gaza, not just its easing, if it is serious about helping the economy of Gaza recover and allowing its people to rebuild their lives, says a group of 18 international development, human rights and peace-building organisations, as EU High Representative Catherine Ashton visits Gaza today (18 July). A group of European foreign ministers is also expected to visit Gaza soon.
...
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=18895
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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I almost forgot (again):
You forgot to answer this question:
You forgot to answer this question:
shafique wrote:BTW, did you decide to start this thread before or after you clicked on this link:
http://www.gaza-strophe.com/eng/index.htm
- shafique
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Perhaps, Gazans themselves saying that food aid is something they donot need and that supermarkets are stocks wall to wall is missed. Based on that I would say food can be better send to Darfur than Gaza. Gazans donot need it (their own words), while in Darfur they do. Thought that was simple.
Interesting that Gazans prefer Israeli fridges over Arab fridges.
- Flying Dutchman
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What is causing you most concern FD - the fact that the Gaza siege is in the process of crumbling, or that no one (not Jerusalem Post, Amnesty International etc) are buying the Israeli spin?
Fascinating that you now seem to be arguing that the Gazans are living it up whilst under siege - pretty much arguing that the siege did not work!
But let me ask you once again:
BTW, did you decide to start this thread before or after you clicked on this link:
http://www.gaza-strophe.com/eng/index.htm
Cheers,
Shafique
Fascinating that you now seem to be arguing that the Gazans are living it up whilst under siege - pretty much arguing that the siege did not work!
But let me ask you once again:
BTW, did you decide to start this thread before or after you clicked on this link:
http://www.gaza-strophe.com/eng/index.htm
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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The argument isn't that Gaza is a summer resort. The argument is that Gaza isn't doing that bad as the foaming left suggests. Nobody is starving and GDP grew with 5,5% in 2009. And yes, I find it cynical that the Gaza rulers (Hamas) find resources to open an Olympic size swimming pool, an air-conditioned shopping mall and dine in luxureous restaurants.
Obviously there is hunger in Darfur. I can only guess for the reason people still think Gazans need food aid more (although they deny it themselves) than people in Darfur.
Obviously there is hunger in Darfur. I can only guess for the reason people still think Gazans need food aid more (although they deny it themselves) than people in Darfur.
- Flying Dutchman
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Ok, so you disagree with the people who view your arguments as no more than cynical Israeli government spin.
Fair enough. I'm with the Jersusalem Post on this one - they don't buy the 'it's not that bad in Gaza' line.
As for food aid, given that the UN states that 80% of Gazans are dependant on food aid, I really wonder whether you actually believe what you type or are just having some fun. (Also, I couldn't find a reference which said it was the Government of Gaza that paid for the swimming pool at the sports club - perhaps you have such a reference? I don't think it is a bad thing for a goverment to spend on such facilities, but I'm asking for a reference for your statement in the previous post.)
Cheers,
Shafique
Fair enough. I'm with the Jersusalem Post on this one - they don't buy the 'it's not that bad in Gaza' line.
As for food aid, given that the UN states that 80% of Gazans are dependant on food aid, I really wonder whether you actually believe what you type or are just having some fun. (Also, I couldn't find a reference which said it was the Government of Gaza that paid for the swimming pool at the sports club - perhaps you have such a reference? I don't think it is a bad thing for a goverment to spend on such facilities, but I'm asking for a reference for your statement in the previous post.)
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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Sky News report from Saturday. Seems to be consistent with the general consensus of accounts of the situation under the siege, and notably different from what some have chosen to believe:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Israel-Eases-Blockade-Of-Gaza-Although-Luxury-Goods-Remain-Scarce/Article/201007315666276?lpos=World_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_7&lid=ARTICLE_15666276_Israel_Eases_Blockade_Of_Gaza%2C_Although_Luxury_Goods_Remain_Scarce
Lisa appears not to have gone for a swim or a gourmet dinner!
BTW - I trust you are getting the reference that shows the Government of Gaza paid for the swimming pool.
Cheers,
Shafique
Supplies For Gaza But Situation Still Dire Share
3:59pm UK, Saturday July 17, 2010
Lisa Holland, foreign affairs correspondent, in Gaza
A month after Israel announced it was easing its blockade of Gaza, food supplies are getting better. But the overall humanitarian situation remains dire.
Israel agreed to ease the blockade after international pressure
We witnessed a food truck arriving at a supermarket direct from Israel for the first time in four years.
The supermarket owner shouted "Wow!" as he lifted up the shutters of the vehicle to discover crates of orange juice and water.
It may not sound like a remarkable delivery but, for these people, it was a remarkable event.The blockade has meant that only basics like flour, rice and sugar have been allowed into Gaza from Israel. Everyday items like tomato ketchup and canned drinks like Coca Cola have been viewed as luxury items.
The Palestinians have had to smuggle them in through tunnels from Egypt - usually it means they arrive battered and dirty and are sold for double the normal price. That has changed because food supplies are being allowed in - imported direct from Israel.
The big attraction in the supermarket where we were was digestive biscuits made in Turkey. Israel agreed to ease its blockade of Gaza a month ago after intense international pressure.There are signs of an improvement in the Gaza Strip but it will take much more than full supermarket shelves to have a real impact on the miserable existence of most Gazans.
A boat from Libya last week tried unsuccessfully to beat the blockade
Two thirds of the people in Gaza rely on food aid from the United Nations and other organisations.
And even though restrictions on food imports have been lifted, ordinary civilians still can't bring in building materials such as steel and concrete.
Israel fears it will be seized by Hamas, the Islamist rulers of Gaza, and used to build military installations.
Outside one of their distribution centres in Gaza, John Ging, head of the UN's Relief and Works Agency in Gaza, told me: "Now we have to focus on the economy.
"We have 800,000 refugees queuing at our food distribution centres.
"They can't afford to buy cans of Coca Cola from Israel.
"All they can do is come here and collect their five basic food items and that's all they have to live on.
"We now have to focus on getting these people back to work, on starting an economy, and that's all of course about bringing in raw materials, starting the construction industry and then exports.
"The big issues have yet to be achieved but we've taken the first steps."
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Israel-Eases-Blockade-Of-Gaza-Although-Luxury-Goods-Remain-Scarce/Article/201007315666276?lpos=World_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_7&lid=ARTICLE_15666276_Israel_Eases_Blockade_Of_Gaza%2C_Although_Luxury_Goods_Remain_Scarce
Lisa appears not to have gone for a swim or a gourmet dinner!
BTW - I trust you are getting the reference that shows the Government of Gaza paid for the swimming pool.
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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Firstly, Darfur is the most Muslim region of Sudan - all are Muslim there. All are ethnically black, all speak Arabic. The 'Arabs' and the 'Blacks' are the same race, religion and nationality - just different tribes or different social status' within the tribes. Therefore the loon caption 'not Arab enough' is an epic failure (but an understandable one if one doesn't go beyond the media headlines). In Darfur Sudanese Arabic speaking Black Muslims are fighting Sudanese Arabic speaking Black Muslims. (And please don't confuse this clarification with any sort of condoning of the violence and suffering taking place there.)
LoL
Epic fail there.
FD's point was that the suffering of non-Arabs does not merit the same attention as the plight of Arabs does for loons and Muslims.
Or perhaps another reason why Darfur is the 'acceptable' 'genocide' in the Muslim world is because the killers are Muslims and, like the Kurds killed by Saddam Hussein, Muslims have selective outrage.
End the genocide in Darfur ! Hahah......just kidding. Boycott Denmark !
- event horizon
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^Are you too comparing the Israelis with those committing atrocities in Darfur? Strange, I had you down as a fanboi. 
I guess you have to resort to rhetoric when the facts on the ground are that no one believes the Israeli spin. No wonder you have no comment to my last post!
But hey, you know what has to be done when you post your favourite loon images of Moooslims...
Cheers,
Shafique
I guess you have to resort to rhetoric when the facts on the ground are that no one believes the Israeli spin. No wonder you have no comment to my last post!
But hey, you know what has to be done when you post your favourite loon images of Moooslims...
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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shafique wrote:Sky News report from Saturday. Seems to be consistent with the general consensus of accounts of the situation under the siege, and notably different from what some have chosen to believe:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Israel-Eases-Blockade-Of-Gaza-Although-Luxury-Goods-Remain-Scarce/Article/201007315666276?lpos=World_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_7&lid=ARTICLE_15666276_Israel_Eases_Blockade_Of_Gaza%2C_Although_Luxury_Goods_Remain_Scarce
Shafique
Why so selective Shafique? Normally you love posting the comments don't you?
- Misery Called Life
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The first comment (i.e. the latest comment) currently is:
Fortuitous, n'est pas?
And bob's earlier comment:
I quoted the article in full, and the article describes what the journalist saw. Remember fanbois are notorious for jumping in and giving Israeli spin (just look at any Economist article that mentions Israel and look at the comments).
Cheers,
Shafique
Posted by: bob149 on July 19, 2010 4:01 PM
If honestreporting is being claimed as a valid critique claiming a web page giving the truth then please view both the dot com and the dot org version and the viewpoints of associated international links.
Shooting oneself in the foot comes to mind
Fortuitous, n'est pas?And bob's earlier comment:
Posted by: bob149 on July 19, 2010 11:52 AM
I cannot believe the lack of humanity and ignorance of many of the comment writers here. Please visit theonlydemocracy pages and fiind out what is truly happening. Stop hiding your heads in the sand. Israel has the right to exist but not to commit war crimes in the guise of self defence. If anyone can give any real unbiased publication supporting many of the views espoused here on the state of Gaza and the people now, please post its reference, it would make interesting and laughable reading. To condemn Lisa Holland's article and other Skynews writers for revealing the truth is criminal and to criticize the BBC, one of the world's most unbiased news providers, it beggars belief. What next, condemn the United Nations it's unfair to Israel.
I quoted the article in full, and the article describes what the journalist saw. Remember fanbois are notorious for jumping in and giving Israeli spin (just look at any Economist article that mentions Israel and look at the comments).
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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Another aspect of this whole loon argument that the media is lying to the world about Gaza is rather deliciously ironic.
Fanbois are complaining that the world is believing something the fanbois are frantically jumping up and down and declaring as spin. The world isn't listening though and toys are now being thrown out of the pram!
Hmm - in some ways it would be even more humiliating for the Israeli government if it did actually transpire that they siege failed and they had to disband it fully because they were outmanoeuvred by PR!
However, when I hear hooves I think horses - when the UN, Amnesty International, Baroness Ashton, Jerusalem Post, Sky News (and heck, even Obama) talk about the situation in Gaza being dire etc, I rather think the fanbois protest too much!
Cheers,
Shafique
Fanbois are complaining that the world is believing something the fanbois are frantically jumping up and down and declaring as spin. The world isn't listening though and toys are now being thrown out of the pram!
Hmm - in some ways it would be even more humiliating for the Israeli government if it did actually transpire that they siege failed and they had to disband it fully because they were outmanoeuvred by PR!
However, when I hear hooves I think horses - when the UN, Amnesty International, Baroness Ashton, Jerusalem Post, Sky News (and heck, even Obama) talk about the situation in Gaza being dire etc, I rather think the fanbois protest too much!
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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shafique wrote:^Are you too comparing the Israelis with those committing atrocities in Darfur? Strange, I had you down as a fanboi.
I guess you have to resort to rhetoric when the facts on the ground are that no one believes the Israeli spin. No wonder you have no comment to my last post!
But hey, you know what has to be done when you post your favourite loon images of Moooslims...
Cheers,
Shafique
So you're agreeing with me that Muslims and loon Leftists are selective when it comes to certain grievances (I couldn't say perceived human rights abuses since publishing some cartoons is not a perceived human rights abuse, that I know of)
- event horizon
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According to an UNRWA 2007 report 41% of Gaza women suffer from obesitas and a third of Gaza men suffer from obesitas.
- Flying Dutchman
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Arabs (including Pal-Arabs, IIRC) have higher rates of obesity than Americans.
Put the Big Mac down, sheik, and go out for a jog !
Put the Big Mac down, sheik, and go out for a jog !
- event horizon
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Flying Dutchman wrote:According to an UNRWA 2007 report 41% of Gaza women suffer from obesitas and a third of Gaza men suffer from obesitas.
Death Row inmates in the US have better health care than most of the American public and all of the third world.
You can be live rent free and be fed three squares for life right here in Dubai Prisons, And your point is ?
You seriously cannot be such a huge fanboi that you don't see the stupidity of your own posts ?
- desertdudeshj
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Don't underestimate the stupidity of the fanbois!
They are arguing that the Pals are out-spinning the Israelis - talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!
Cheers,
Shafique
They are arguing that the Pals are out-spinning the Israelis - talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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desertdudeshj wrote:Death Row inmates in the US have better health care than most of the American public and all of the third world.
Which isnot fair IMO. In some (or many) Western societies there is discussion about coupling the level of health service to life style (obesitas, alcohol and smoking p.e.). According to the same UNRWA report close to half of Gaza men are smokers.
desertdudeshj wrote:You can be live rent free and be fed three squares for life right here in Dubai Prisons, And your point is ?
I have an acquintance who stayed in RAK prison a few months, According to her, there was no Olympic size swimming pool, no airco shopping mall and no restaurants to choose from with boeuf provencial a la chef on the menu.
desertdudeshj wrote:You seriously cannot be such a huge fanboi that you don't see the stupidity of your own posts ?
Gaza has the 6th highest growth rate in the world...
- Flying Dutchman
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Flying Dutchman wrote:Gaza has the 6th highest growth rate in the world...
Sorry for doubting your loyalty to the spin.- desertdudeshj
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^DD - I did warn you you
shafique wrote:Don't underestimate the stupidity of the fanbois!
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shafique wrote:The first comment (i.e. the latest comment) currently is
Cheers,
Shafique
So you chose to quote 1 poster in what 5 pages of quotes???
That smacks of insecurity man. It's not about whose right or wrong it's about being impartial. You simply cannot force your opinion down people's throats. So you linked the article fair play, but you could make a mention of the comments whereby the overwhelming majority were indeed skeptical about the article. And then let people make up their minds for themselves!!!
Comprendre amigo?
- Misery Called Life
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Yep - I chose which of the quotes to quote, shock horror!
I take your point that I didn't point out that the comments would be largely fanbois objecting - but that is par for the course for any article on the web that contradicts what Israeli govt headquarters puts out.
In this thread, I've quoted the UN, Amnesty International, EU commissioners, linked to a documentary called gaza-strophe and also quoted the Jerusalem Post which listed the fanbois/Israeli spin and which ridiculed it.
But you are right, I apologise if it appeared that I was saying people should not be free to believe in the fanbois version of 'life in Gaza'. They are. In fact we should be especially tolerant of these minority views.
Cheers,
Shafique
I take your point that I didn't point out that the comments would be largely fanbois objecting - but that is par for the course for any article on the web that contradicts what Israeli govt headquarters puts out.
In this thread, I've quoted the UN, Amnesty International, EU commissioners, linked to a documentary called gaza-strophe and also quoted the Jerusalem Post which listed the fanbois/Israeli spin and which ridiculed it.
But you are right, I apologise if it appeared that I was saying people should not be free to believe in the fanbois version of 'life in Gaza'. They are. In fact we should be especially tolerant of these minority views.
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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More pics of the new Gaza shopping mall:
http://www.alresalahtalk.net/vb/showthread.php?t=3636<br%20/>
http://www.alresalahtalk.net/vb/showthread.php?t=3636<br%20/>
- Flying Dutchman
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Thanks FD - that's pretty impressive.
Now that the siege is in the process of being lifted, I guess we can expect many more projects like this - I mean if under a Hamas government under Israeli siege the enterprising Palestinians can complete projects like this, when the siege is over and building materials, stocks etc come in and exports go out, there'll be much more disposable income (and not to say fewer people needing food aid than the 80% who currently do).
I mean, there's no shortage of building work required - so let the reconstruction and construction boom begin!
Cheers,
Shafique
Now that the siege is in the process of being lifted, I guess we can expect many more projects like this - I mean if under a Hamas government under Israeli siege the enterprising Palestinians can complete projects like this, when the siege is over and building materials, stocks etc come in and exports go out, there'll be much more disposable income (and not to say fewer people needing food aid than the 80% who currently do).
I mean, there's no shortage of building work required - so let the reconstruction and construction boom begin!
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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Oh dear, Bibi has been advised to stop using the argument that there is no humanitarian crisis!
http://coteret.com/2010/07/05/hasbarapocalypse-leaked-frank-luntz-memo-israeli-public-diplomacy-in-us-on-flotilla-failed-dismally/
The Israel Project (TIP), an American Hasbara outfit, commissioned Republican political consultant Frank Luntz to examine the effectiveness of Israel’s public diplomacy in the US on the Flotilla debacle. TIP gave the memo to the Prime Minister’s Office, where someone promptly leaked it to Chico Menashe, Channel Ten TV News diplomatic affairs correspondent.
...
Luntz says Israel must immediately stop using the argument that there is no hunger and no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. He says this fatally destroys Israel’s credibility in light of the images on the television screens. Israel must admit that there is a problem, he says, to gain the listeners’ sympathy
http://coteret.com/2010/07/05/hasbarapocalypse-leaked-frank-luntz-memo-israeli-public-diplomacy-in-us-on-flotilla-failed-dismally/
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H/T EoZ:
Giving rights to Pal Arabs is up for debate ......
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00453.html
Mohammed al-Amin spends his days doing little more than playing billiards and smoking cigarettes in this sprawling Palestinian refugee camp, where gunmen roam narrow alleyways dotted with tin-roofed, cement-block homes.
The 25-year-old studied dental lab technology but works at a small, grubby coffee shop in the camp, making $100 a month. He dreams of working with a respected doctor in Lebanese society and being welcomed like any other foreigner, without being looked down on.
"Sometimes I feel like a pressurized bottle that's about to explode," said al-Amin, who was born in Ein el-Hilweh years after his family fled what is now Israel. "Why should three quarters of the Palestinian people here be selling coffee on the street?"
The approximately 400,000 Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, many of them born here, are barred by law from any but the most menial professions and are denied many basic rights.
Now parliament is debating a new law that would allow Palestinians to work in any profession and own property, as well as give them social security benefits. The bill, due for a vote on Aug. 17, is the most serious effort yet by Lebanon to transform its policies toward the refugees.
Giving rights to Pal Arabs is up for debate ......
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00453.html
- event horizon
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Epic failure again.
I suggest you look on a map and consult with FD - he started this thread to try and propagate the Israeli line that everything is nice in Gaza.
Gaza is the open prison guarded by Israel. Lebanon is the country to the north of Israel - and earlier in the thread FD tried to make the point that Palestinians in Lebanon were worse off than those in Gaza - and failed spectacularly. But good to see you have a go too - it's nice of you to share the pain.
BTW - you may also want to pass on the words of wisdom from Mark Steel to the loon blogger Elder - as it clearly applies to him as well (not for quoting WP, but for his lame attempts at spin):
But bit by bit Israel is finding it has to answer for itself publicly, and the old excuses are not so easily accepted. From now on they’ll have to put a bit more thought into their bollocks, which has got to be for the good.
Cheers,
Shafique
I suggest you look on a map and consult with FD - he started this thread to try and propagate the Israeli line that everything is nice in Gaza.
Gaza is the open prison guarded by Israel. Lebanon is the country to the north of Israel - and earlier in the thread FD tried to make the point that Palestinians in Lebanon were worse off than those in Gaza - and failed spectacularly. But good to see you have a go too - it's nice of you to share the pain.
BTW - you may also want to pass on the words of wisdom from Mark Steel to the loon blogger Elder - as it clearly applies to him as well (not for quoting WP, but for his lame attempts at spin):
But bit by bit Israel is finding it has to answer for itself publicly, and the old excuses are not so easily accepted. From now on they’ll have to put a bit more thought into their bollocks, which has got to be for the good.
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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Here's what FD said:
At least with regards to actually owning property and being able to get a job (among other basic rights), FD is absolutely correct that Pal-Arabs have more rights in Gaza than they do in Lebanon.
are barred by law from any but the most menial professions and are denied many basic rights.
Palestinians to work in any profession and own property, as well as give them social security benefits
To me, these laws seem pretty serious. Pal-Arabs are prevented from holding anything but the most basic jobs, enjoy the benefits of being a citizen (such as social security) or owning property.
But by every possible indicator Gazans are better of than the Palestinians in Lebanese refugee camps
At least with regards to actually owning property and being able to get a job (among other basic rights), FD is absolutely correct that Pal-Arabs have more rights in Gaza than they do in Lebanon.
are barred by law from any but the most menial professions and are denied many basic rights.
Palestinians to work in any profession and own property, as well as give them social security benefits
To me, these laws seem pretty serious. Pal-Arabs are prevented from holding anything but the most basic jobs, enjoy the benefits of being a citizen (such as social security) or owning property.
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