Paranoid Politics: The Denial Of Islamophobia

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Paranoid Politics: The Denial of Islamophobia Jul 28, 2010
From the Huffington post with some great insights, including:

Far from being a fact-based movement, its leaders and thinkers propagate falsehoods and myths towards the discriminatory goal of silencing Muslims in America.
...
the hallmarks of this style: “heated exaggeration, suspiciousness, and conspiratorial fantasy.”
...
Within their narrative of a hateful religion bent on the destruction of the West, opposing any form of Islam in America comes out as justifiable. However, it closes them off to the actual practices and beliefs of the vast majority of Muslims in the United States and the world. They are intentionally ignorant...
...
The Islamophobe is unable to deal with complexity. They do not mention the fact that numerous Muslims died as victims of the 9/11 attacks, that Muslims have been in the United States for hundreds of years, and that the vast majority of American Muslims condemned the attacks on civilians as contradictory to the tenets of Islam.


Full article - very enlightening:

Paranoid Politics: The Denial of Islamophobia

Imagine a fairly widespread, fairly mainstream ethos in which politicians, pundits, and academics convened to denigrate practitioners of Christianity or Judaism. Imagine that these commentators picked apart the New or Old Testament to find its most heinous contents, then used those phrases to justify their hatred and distrust. Imagine a world in which this was utterly acceptable, even encouraged. Now turn on your television.

The debate over the proposed Muslim community center near Ground Zero and the more recent community mobilization against a Muslim group's attempted purchase of a vacant convent in Staten Island are indicative of the unhealthy Islamophobia that has taken root in right-wing American politics. Far from being a fact-based movement, its leaders and thinkers propagate falsehoods and myths towards the discriminatory goal of silencing Muslims in America.

This type of race and religion-baiting politics is not at all new. The tactics and orientation of those opposing Muslim-American institutions bring to mind what Richard Hofstadter called "the paranoid style in American politics." Hofstadter, writing in 1964, described the hallmarks of this style: "heated exaggeration, suspiciousness, and conspiratorial fantasy."

The idea that a vast Muslim conspiracy exists to take over the United States and Europe from within is simply ridiculous. Yet it serves as the grounds for their opposition to the freedom of American Muslims to practice their religion in their own communities, such as Staten Island.

The inherent suspiciousness of the anti-Islam movement is so rich that its participants are unable to reconcile the contradiction between their narrative of secretive Islamic terrorists pursuing "jihad" and the high-profile, publicly conciliatory moves such as the Cordoba Initiative's efforts to purchase a building near Ground Zero and convert it into a public community center. In opposing both the secretive and the public display of Muslimness, they reveal that their actual goal is simply the silencing of Muslims in America. This is most clearly displayed in the way they claim to only target militant extremists, and then proceed to include the most mainstream and popular Muslim organizations in that category.

Within their narrative of a hateful religion bent on the destruction of the West, opposing any form of Islam in America comes out as justifiable. However, it closes them off to the actual practices and beliefs of the vast majority of Muslims in the United States and the world. They are intentionally ignorant because, as Hofstadter wrote, "The paranoid spokesman sees the fate of conspiracy in apocalyptic terms -- he traffics in the birth and death of whole worlds, whole political orders, whole systems of human values." Though Hofstadter wrote of fears over Masonic and Jesuit conspiracies, his descriptions are easily applied to the anti-Islam movement.

It is ironic that in Staten Island so many Catholic parishioners sought to block the sale of an empty convent to the Muslim American Society (MAS) because they feared the spread of Islamic extremism, or what one group crudely calls "the Islamization of America." They contend that MAS is the "public face" of the Muslim Brotherhood despite the fact that both organizations deny a link and none has been found by America's now 900,000-strong intelligence community. Such flimsy evidence is common to the paranoid crowd.

A case about which Hofstadter wrote was the trend of anti-Catholicism in 19th-century America, which took the form of heightened suspicion of Jesuits. It was in much the same manner as today's suspicion of Muslims. Hofstadter cites the example of an 1855 Texas newspaper article, which read, "It is a notorious fact that the Monarchs of Europe and the Pope of Rome are at this very moment plotting our destruction and threatening the extinction of our political, civil, and religious institutions."

Such rhetoric is never entirely without evidence. Participants in the anti-Islam movement are often quick to point to the 9/11 attacks, as well as subsequent attacks around the world, as justification for their hatred of Islam. The evidence of linkage is often weak. They may cite these attacks as reasons for denying the sale of the convent without showing that MAS was responsible for any.

The Islamophobe is unable to deal with complexity. They do not mention the fact that numerous Muslims died as victims of the 9/11 attacks, that Muslims have been in the United States for hundreds of years, and that the vast majority of American Muslims condemned the attacks on civilians as contradictory to the tenets of Islam.

They even go to the extent of denying the most clearly formed and documented counter-evidence. For example, in a recent debate over the proposed mosque on Staten Island on Russia Today's Alyona Show, Pamela Geller -- a blogger and self-styled "expert" on Islam and jihad -- claimed that backlash against Muslims in the United States following the events of September 11, 2001 has been "non-existent": "[T]here is no Muslim backlash ... [T]hat's part of this Islamic narrative ... [Y]ou cannot cite any hate crimes ... [T]here have been no hate crimes ... America has gone out of her way to make sure that there is no backlash."

In reality, hate crimes perpetrated against Muslims since 2001 and particularly in the years immediately following are well-documented. Just three years after the attacks, a report by the Council on American-Islamic relations found that in 2004, more than 1,500 hundred cases of anti-Muslim harassment and violence occurred, including 141 documented hate crimes, a 50-percent increase from the 2003.

Nine years after the attacks, the attitude toward Muslims in America that allows such attacks to continue, an attitude perpetuated by bloggers like Geller, show no signs of abating. According to a February 2010 report from the The United States Department of Justice, its Civil Rights division, along with the FBI and the U.S. Attorneys offices, have investigated "over 800 incidents since 9/11 involving violence, threats, vandalism and arson against Arab-Americans, Muslims, Sikhs, South-Asian Americans and other individuals perceived to be of Middle Eastern origin."

Geller is by no means alone in her attempts to deny the existence of Islamophobia. Though Tea Party leader Mark Williams was recently ousted for his racist diatribe directed at the NAACP, comments made months earlier in which he referred to Muslims as worshipping a "monkey god," went almost unnoticed by the media. Right-wing pundit Pat Robertson has regularly referred to Islam as a "fascist group" on television, and academic Daniel Pipes has denied the existence of Islamophobia entirely, asking, "What exactly constitutes an 'undue fear of Islam' when Muslims acting in the name of Islam today make up the premier source of worldwide aggression, both verbal and physical, versus non-Muslims and Muslims alike? What, one wonders, is the proper amount of fear?"

Even the Wikipedia article for "Islamophobia" contains an entire section on the debate surrounding the term. Of course, Wikipedia is a crowdsourced project, but perhaps that makes it all the more telling, and reflective of popular opinion. The page for "anti-Semitism" contains no debate, nor is it likely that any would be accepted by the public; while anti-Semitism means, rightly, social death, Islamophobia might get you a television spot, a column in a newspaper, or academic tenure.

In the paranoid Islamophobic mind, Islam is the perpetrator. Thus, Muslims cannot be victims. Islam is a monolith, acting in coordination towards the nefarious end of overturning Western civilization, according to their paranoid schema. So how could Muslims be anything but ill-willed? How could they be victims of any backlash when the West equals civilization and Islam so clearly conflicts with that idea? Were these views merely flights of personal fantasy, they would be harmless. The danger is that they have become part of the mainstream and are denying the freedom of Muslims to practice their religion, a freedom enshrined in the Constitution.

Luckily, significant portions of Americans who work or study with, live next to, or otherwise interact with American Muslims reject the simplistic hate-mongering of these groups. However, if Islamophobes really believe Muslims are a grave threat, the kind of post-9/11 violent backlash against them will grow.

Hofstadter would even predict that Islamophobes, like other paranoid movements in the past, would become more like the enemy they project. He pointed out that the "Ku Klux Klan imitated Catholicism to the point of donning priestly vestments, developing an elaborate ritual and an equally elaborate hierarchy." Also, the John Birch Society emulated "Communist cells and quasi-secret operation through 'front' groups, and preache[d] a ruthless prosecution of the ideological war along lines very similar to those it finds in the Communist enemy."

The best hope is that Islamophobia be pushed back into the fringes and local and federal authorities aggressively prosecute anti-Muslim violence and discrimination. Concerned communities should engage in dialogue with Muslims and their organizations, and learn more about them, rather than rely on the types of prejudices and paranoia being hawked by Islamophobes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jillian-y ... 59497.html

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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial of Islamophobia Jul 28, 2010
Imagine a fairly widespread, fairly mainstream ethos in which politicians, pundits, and academics convened to denigrate practitioners of Christianity or Judaism. Imagine that these commentators picked apart the New or Old Testament to find its most heinous contents, then used those phrases to justify their hatred and distrust. Imagine a world in which this was utterly acceptable, even encouraged. Now turn on your television.


LoL.

I don't think one needs to imagine 'academics' convening to denigrate Christianity.

Where is this lady from, Mars ?

But that was pretty funny. Because far from 'picking apart' Islam, mainstream politicians, academia, commentators, etc, go out of their way to provide a positive spin on Islam.

Now, I want you to imagine the last time the president of the United States went on television and told the nation that Buddhism is a religion of peace.

I want you to imagine commentators always making sure to mention that Hinduism is 'hijacked' by a small minority of misunderstanders.

Go ahead. Imagine. Because I guarantee you have never heard that said about any, *ANY* religion other than Islam.

As a result of this type of unashamed pandering and servility, we have a large group of people who scratch their heads and realize that something is not right. So, of course these people are looking to get informed.

They're looking to get the straight dope. Because they know they can't get the unadulterated truth from mainstream media. There's absolutely no way. And who could blame them ?

But perhaps the author is slightly confused. She must be. After all, she seems perplexed why 'Islamophobes' would go through the texts and teachings of Islam with a fine toothed comb.

Apparently, to do is Islamophobic. It's race baiting. Surely the blogosphere (not the mainstream media or academia, mind you) don't go through Islam's texts to quote passages because Muslims themselves are the ones who to cite their texts and teachings as the justification for their terrorism. That would be too simple.

Oh no. On planet Mars, Americans bring up the texts and teachings of Islam because they're Islamophobic.
They're racist. No sirree. Muslims terrorists absolutely, positutely never are the ones to cite Islam's texts and teachings as reasons for their butchery.

I mean, if Islamic agents of destruction did cite Islam's texts and teachings then, perhaps it would be a good idea to analyze the Koran - certainly logical. After all, not doing so would be absurd.

But, after all, Muslims never would do that. So, it's just a case of "Islamophoes" being Islamophobic. Something to dismiss. Because, as we all know, Muslims are the new Jews.

Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders
World Islamic Front Statement

23 February 1998

Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin
Ayman al-Zawahiri, amir of the Jihad Group in Egypt
Abu-Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, Egyptian Islamic Group
Shaykh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan
Fazlur Rahman, amir of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh


Praise be to Allah, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped, Allah who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders.

The Arabian Peninsula has never -- since Allah made it flat, created its desert, and encircled it with seas -- been stormed by any forces like the crusader armies spreading in it like locusts, eating its riches and wiping out its plantations. All this is happening at a time in which nations are attacking Muslims like people fighting over a plate of food. In the light of the grave situation and the lack of support, we and you are obliged to discuss current events, and we should all agree on how to settle the matter.

No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone:

First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.

If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it. The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless.

Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.

So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors.

Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there. The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.

All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on Allah, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al-Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said: "As for the fighting to repulse [an enemy], it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed [by the ulema]. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life."

On that basis, and in compliance with Allah's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:

The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah."

This is in addition to the words of Almighty Allah: "And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? -- women and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'"

We -- with Allah's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in Allah and wishes to be rewarded to comply with Allah's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson.

Almighty Allah said: "O ye who believe, give your response to Allah and His Apostle, when He calleth you to that which will give you life. And know that Allah cometh between a man and his heart, and that it is He to whom ye shall all be gathered."

Almighty Allah also says: "O ye who believe, what is the matter with you, that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling so heavily to the earth! Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things."

Almighty Allah also says: "So lose no heart, nor fall into despair. For ye must gain mastery if ye are true in faith."
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial of Islamophobia Jul 28, 2010
I can see that there would be more suspicion of Middle Eastern/Muslim type people in the US, because the US has military operations/soldiers fighting in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan. For 9 years they have been fighting enemies in those countries, and the US people know there is discontent about it amongst people of those backgrounds residing or now citizens of the US. Look at Canada, we had internment camps for Japanese in BC during WW2 because of suspicion of a Japanese threat to national security. Another very embarrassing and unjust part of our history, but that was a direct result of fear of "enemies from within". So long as the wars are continuing in those countries, you will see more Islamophobia and mistrust between ethnic/religious groups in the US. So, educating is fine, but until the wars stop, the problem cannot be solved. I would even say that until the whole Israel/Palesting conflict is solved the wider problem of Islamophobia is hard to solve.
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial of Islamophobia Jul 28, 2010
Thanks eh. I presume you weren't being ironical - so I'll take it you meant the above post.

So, let's check with the characteristics I extracted in the first post:

Far from being a fact-based movement, its leaders and thinkers propagate falsehoods and myths towards the discriminatory goal of silencing Muslims in America.


Check - Falsehoods and Myths. spot on.


the hallmarks of this style: “heated exaggeration, suspiciousness, and conspiratorial fantasy.”


Classic case of exaggeration. Well done.

Within their narrative of a hateful religion bent on the destruction of the West, opposing any form of Islam in America comes out as justifiable. However, it closes them off to the actual practices and beliefs of the vast majority of Muslims in the United States and the world. They are intentionally ignorant...
...


'intentionally ignorant' ...

The Islamophobe is unable to deal with complexity. They do not mention the fact that numerous Muslims died as victims of the 9/11 attacks, that Muslims have been in the United States for hundreds of years, and that the vast majority of American Muslims condemned the attacks on civilians as contradictory to the tenets of Islam.


Again spot on.

BINGO - full house.
:roll:


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Shafique
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial of Islamophobia Jul 28, 2010
kanelli wrote: So long as the wars are continuing in those countries, you will see more Islamophobia and mistrust between ethnic/religious groups in the US. So, educating is fine, but until the wars stop, the problem cannot be solved. I would even say that until the whole Israel/Palesting conflict is solved the wider problem of Islamophobia is hard to solve.


I agree. As long as there is a need for a bogeyman and the best bets are Muslims, you'll find that the Islamophobes vitriol will be believed by some.

I also blame misguided Muslim terrorists for playing into the hands of the loons, but I make a distinction between the ideological loons who deliberately twist the truth etc and those who are just Xenophobic. Xenophobia does indeed increase at times of uncertainty, war etc - but is also correlated to propaganda against the 'other'.

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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial Of Islamophobia Jul 28, 2010
Well, before it was Communists, now it is Muslims. Propaganda definitely does not help.

Out of interest, would you classify Ayaan Hirsi Ali as a loon?

Most certainly event horizon is! :P
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial of Islamophobia Jul 28, 2010
kanelli wrote:I would even say that until the whole Israel/Palesting conflict is solved the wider problem of Islamophobia is hard to solve.


:shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial of Islamophobia Jul 28, 2010
Flying Dutchman wrote:
kanelli wrote:I would even say that until the whole Israel/Palesting conflict is solved the wider problem of Islamophobia is hard to solve.


:shock: :shock: :shock:


Oh no ! now you did it Kanelli you said the "I" word. Look what you did. Now you got all the fansbois heads up and ears pointing towards you.
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial of Islamophobia Jul 28, 2010
desertdudeshj wrote:
Flying Dutchman wrote:
kanelli wrote:I would even say that until the whole Israel/Palesting conflict is solved the wider problem of Islamophobia is hard to solve.


:shock: :shock: :shock:


Oh no ! now you did it Kanelli you said the "I" word. Look what you did. Now you got all the fansbois heads up and ears pointing towards you.


I find it very strange to blame the IPC for worldwide Islamophobia (an irrational fear of Islam). Before Kanelli also found the IPC a reason for antisemitism and Muslim attacks on Jews on Europe. Perhaps I misunderstood, but it is worrisome.
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial Of Islamophobia Jul 28, 2010
The IPC as you like to call it, in my view is the main catalyst for the mess we are all sitting in right now. and probaly makes you glad to hear this, that I blame the Arabs more for starting this back in the 40's.
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial of Islamophobia Jul 28, 2010
The smelly linkage myth. The Sunni-Shia conflict, which is way more destructive for the region, was there centuries before the IPC and will still be there even if the IPC is solved . Just one example.
Unfortunately in general the linkage myth goes further as we have seen: anti-semitism and critizising Islam worldwide.
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial Of Islamophobia Jul 28, 2010
I have some sympathy for FD's views actually. The IPC is indeed used as convenient scapegoat/reason for violence and focus of hatred in the Arab/Muslim world. As are cartoons of the Prophet and other issues that are exploited by political types within the clergy.

I would disagree that the Sunni/Shia struggle is more destructive - but that would be because I'd be counting the numbers of people who have been affected and deprived of freedoms, rather than just looking at sectarian killings. But it matters not that the Israeli occupation and travesties of justice/international law are less bloody than say the Iran/Iraq war etc - no one buys the 'look at them, aren't they bad too' argument anymore. If anything we should speak out more against all injustices.

However, the IPC is unique in many respects. It is one which has lasted over 60 years - subject to UN resolutions each year that are just ignored by Israel (contrast that with the UN resolution against Iraq after it invaded Kuwait and the basis of which the first Gulf War was launched - hard to see what the difference in Iraq's crime and Israel's in the UN resolutions).

Israel appears to be unique in that it is rewarded for breaking international law, and not sanctioned for her crimes.

Whilst it may be unfair to the fanbois that Israel is so prominent - I'm afraid you reap what you sow. For decades Israel has presented itself as whiter than white ('most moral army in the world' for example) and peddled the myth that it is a David surrounded by bloodthirst Golliath's that want to drive Jews into the sea etc. When the mask slips and we see the emperor is naked - it is a shock to the system.

1.5m Gazans are living in an open prison, Israel has been offered 78% of pre-1948 Palestine (as defined in the 1930s Hope Simpson report etc etc) and wants more - despite the UN initially giving them 55%. Israel illegally annexed Jerusalem and continues to ignore that the world hasn't agreed to let it break this law etc etc

These are real issues and raising them shouldn't make one automatically an anti-Semite. The Israelis that throw this slur out do themselves a dis-service. They have cried wolf too often, now no one believes them at all.

That said, I'd say that undemocratic Arab leaders have also caused a lot of harm - and been very savvy at using the IPC to divert attention to Israel away from domestic lack of freedoms.

There isn't a finite amount of compassion in the world - speaking out against Israel's crimes does not mean we condone Muslim crimes.

Nor does it mean that Islamophobia as described in the article in the OP doesn't exist and isn't being used as described either.

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Shafique
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial Of Islamophobia Jul 28, 2010
The UK Prime Minister, David Cameron, said in Turkey:

"Gaza cannot and must not be allowed to remain a prison camp," Mr Cameron said.

"People in Gaza are living under constant attacks and pressure in an open-air prison," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-10778110

This is the first time the UK government has called this particular spade 'a spade'.



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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial Of Islamophobia Jul 29, 2010
Flying Dutchman, the Israel/Palestine conflict is also contributing to anti-Semitism as well as Islamophobia. There is propaganda flying both ways. The conflict needs to be solved, because it is my personal opinion that either the IPC or dark horse - wacky North Korea - are going to be the root cause of WW3.
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial Of Islamophobia Jul 29, 2010
desertdudeshj wrote:The IPC as you like to call it, in my view is the main catalyst for the mess we are all sitting in right now. and probaly makes you glad to hear this, that I blame the Arabs more for starting this back in the 40's.


I disagree..Back in the 40's Arab league received the US and British governments assistance( as Arab armies too had proxy generals) to attack on Israel. I personally feel that Arab liberation army was calendestine work of the western world. It was long ago decided that the two sides were to war, arabs to loose, israel to become strong and satellite state to receive orders from the western world to control ME affairs.
Islam, Muslims and their Islamic beliefs were badly used to reach to this objective. This link should give you the kind of idea possessed by the western intellects. You can see the intellectual wars to twist and turn things around so that everthing stays covert and that noone can resolve secret plans and operations on all levels.
http://www.hirhome.com/israel/cia-fatah.htm

Anyways, despite the war back in the 40’s, it's intriguing that IPC still continues today, even after 70 years have passed without such war. Have you ever thought why? This brings my mind the above explained fact that to control ME affairs further and longer such war was needed and was the initial project of the western world not the Arabs!but later Russia and China became part of it as well.. Hence it continues to linger around. What I promise you is that if America and Europe unites to put half the sanctions they impose on iran onto israel instead, the conflict will be over more or less unless of course Israel doesn’t surprise us with Russia and China or with other covert partners,,, since the world of course isn’t what it was back in 40’s. But the western world can't impose sanction in return for peace becouse both israel and the situation of muslims are their own mess. They don't know how to get out of it as world relations became more complex than what it was 70 years ago unless every nation opts for peace, that's very unlikely as well..

Even today, It isn't peace between Arabs and Jews that interests the Foreign Elite, but rather the continuation of the conflict. The way they do that is by corrupting/controlling the national leaders of both sides. The reason why legitimate, popular leaders are not at the helms of countries in the Middle East is because the FE will topple any leader who doesn't cater to their desires before the needs of their own people. If Middle East leaders are selected and deemed popular by their own people, the FE will demonize them as radicals/extremists,terrorist leaders or enemies of peace, and thus de-legitimize them in the world arena.

Now why leaders were easy to be corrupt back in 40’s were not because of their own willpower but because the Arabs were scattered, disorganised small population that had no trained military power or oil technology to retaliate against threats of their oppressors. The situation in ME is much the same ever since (under puppet leaders)… it looks like the people of Arabia always be dependant on another strong nation both economically and militarily to defend themselves therefore they will have no choice other than accept to be oppressed and controlled by the strongest (whoever that nation might be) until Arabs themselves have rich and versatile economy beside oil. Hence the only time Islam will flourish and enjoy it’s true essence and rights for all is when oppression is over or until another all around strong Muslim nation emerges to bring them the freedom they need.
Now if you look at the situation of each potential muslim country, you will see that one way or another they are under continues pressure for submission and any efforts they make to advance themselves are tried to be halted by all means either through wars, sanctions, demonizing media coverage or whatever you name it…

I advice people of ME to stand behind their countries and leaders while strongly criticising their leaders ill-actions/or non-actions due to submission to external forces that I find very unislamic,undemocratic and inhuman in todays terms.

This is a good and easy peace of work to read...
http://www.joelbainerman.com/articles/summary.shtml
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial Of Islamophobia Jul 29, 2010
Berrin wrote:Anyways, despite the war back in the 40’s, it's intriguing that IPC still continues today, even after 70 years have passed without such war. Have you ever thought why? This brings my mind the above explained fact that to control ME affairs further and longer such war was needed and was the initial project of the western world not the Arabs!but later Russia and China became part of it as well.. Hence it continues to linger around. What I promise you is that if America and Europe unites to put half the sanctions they impose on iran onto israel instead, the conflict will be over more or less unless of course Israel doesn’t surprise us with Russia and China or with other covert partners,,, since the world of course isn’t what it was back in 40’s. But the western world can't impose sanction in return for peace becouse both israel and the situation of muslims are their own mess. They don't know how to get out of it as world relations became more complex than what it was 70 years ago unless every nation opts for peace, that's very unlikely as well..


Berrin, you use Russia and China too easy to plug any hole in your argument. Do you have any evidence of such a behaiviour? It rather sutes prostitute than great countries, which both powers realy are.
Red Chief
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial of Islamophobia Jul 29, 2010
Chief do you believe israelies are that stupid? remember they are a state, and this state called Israel has now became world policy producing country, in that respect I am sure Israel would be much faster to take decisions and become assertive in their actions due to its size and its landmark position, it is one of the best countries suited for corrot and stick role as there is only one jewish state. Plus in today's world what israel means to western world would be exactly the same to Russia/China/India, had isreal been dropped from the capitalist camp.(Israel knows its subcontractor/satellite state situation suits him best surrounded by muslim nations). Western world can't afford to loose it, this is why israel will always get the support of America/Europe couse whoever controls ME, will further control matters expanding beyond either east or west! The matter of truth is that Chinese Russian camp would also not like to see growing and expanding muslim world influencing both in ideological or economical terms (as in the times of 7th century)and we always know that due to oil no nation can give up dominating muslim world either..
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial Of Islamophobia Jul 29, 2010
Berrin wrote:I personally feel that Arab liberation army was calendestine work of the western world.


Of course you do, you probally feel that anything not in the middle east is pure evil. if any arab or muslim does anything wrong, the west is behind it, right ! Yawn. same old blame game. Pointing fingers,instead of taking responsibilities.

Your our version of the loon. A westernophobe !
desertdudeshj
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial of Islamophobia Jul 29, 2010
You simplified the situation to the time of Soviet Union. It is not true any more as Russia/China cannot play so big role and created military union for condemning the agressor on their own borders only. So "Moslem World" are on their own. That's why so many Moslems miss the old times.
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial of Islamophobia Jul 29, 2010
You missed your own point DD, you were the one taking about 40's and I told you the truth, the matter of fact is that it still continues shamlessly as no arab nation is allowed power or technology transfer but welcomed to buy end-products since they have money from oil, they are not even allowed to control what they purchase as theirs since arab leadership mentally digested long ago, so they have no choice but accept to be protected..the military bases of USA/Nato is doing great job to protect them. Don't you think?

-- Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:09 pm --

Red Chief wrote:You simplified the situation to the time of Soviet Union. It is not true any more as Russia/China cannot play so big role and created military union for condemning the agressor on their own borders only. So "Moslem World" are on their own. That's why so many Moslems miss the old times.


Of course China/Russia will continue to condemn the agressor as they are not the current superpowers of the world. I am sure it would have been the other way around if roles were exchanged. But the power game is shifting towards the east as USA and Europe getting bogged down and loosing strength due to colonial expansionism and its cost to keep up while of course others develop themselves to take over..
Berrin
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial Of Islamophobia Jul 29, 2010
No berrin YOU as always missed the point. Your every argument on every subject is the west is behind it.

You have pretty much turned everything, everywhere into the west fault. All you've every presented are a bunch of conspiracy theories accompanied by a long, monotonous and boring posts

You probally think that when someone stole your sandwich from the pantry at work today. The CIA was behind it !

Back to the 40's If they would have accepted the UN partition plan quitely and declared independence things would much better now, but we will never know now will we. But instead the arabs leaders pushing their own political agendas went to war. And promptly and deservedly got their asses kicked. And that is why I blame them.

What was funny how you were turned that also into wests fault !

P.S : Please no need to post more boring conspiracy laden posts supporting some vague and lame links. i for one won't be reading them
desertdudeshj
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial of Islamophobia Jul 29, 2010
Well it's time vikileaks leaks more of an old documents!to enlighten us all :D

What I don't understand is that DD, arabs had no military power of their own, they had to have west's backing to win as they were colonised,at one point they were stronger and were meant to win, how is it that they lost? The matter of fact is that the western world was playing israel aginst arabs and arabs against israel for their own agenda! of course under covert operations..how could they admit what they were doing? This is all there is to it. it was deceided that Arabs were to loose....Intellectual superiortiy and tactis are part of the wars that's why ever army has its own special forces units and their secret operations..
Berrin
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial Of Islamophobia Jul 29, 2010
Again more hooplah. :roll:
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial Of Islamophobia Jul 29, 2010
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial of Islamophobia Jul 30, 2010
event horizon
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial Of Islamophobia Jul 30, 2010
:)

Don't you just love the loon tactics of blaming the other when examples of Islamophobia are given.

They can't seem to make up their minds - first it is 'Islamophobia doesn't exist' then it is 'but look over there, the Mooslims also commit hate crimes' (the latter is when they can't explain/excuse/imagine away the actual acts of Islamophobia)

But what is fascinating is that there is no shame. No contrition. No condemnation of a call by a US church (who knows, perhaps eh goes to that church - it would explain a lot?) which is calling for the Quran to be burnt.

Hatred seems to run deep in the loons' psyche.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial of Islamophobia Jul 30, 2010
Ah.

I guess loons have poor memories.

It wasn't that long ago when the forum's biggest loon was regularly called out for doing exactly what he's accusing others of doing.

Oh look.

Our resident loon doesn't disappoint:

dubai-politics-talk/gazan-preacher-preaches-love-and-mercy-t42265.html#p340000
event horizon
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Re: Paranoid Politics: The Denial Of Islamophobia Jul 30, 2010
Still blaming the other?

Do you attend the church that is proposing to burn Quran?

cheers,
Shafique
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