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Most Israeli's donot come from Europe. Another gross misconception.

BM will not agree with you...

Yes I know habibi currently they don't, but at the time the nation was formed most did.

But in anycase for the sake of argument, how bout that ones that do go back to Europe and their respective countries and the Americans, Canadians, Australians and almost all of Britian go back to their respectiev countriesback to where they and their ancestors came from.

Bethsmum wrote:Yes of course! It's the girls fault. I should have realised it sooner, silly me!

BTW Shaf, your earlier post, you repeated that these men were Brits on a number of occasions. I think I used to play that game when I was a kid, keep repeating it and it will come true eventually. They aren't Brits, they're Pakis.

You missed the bulk of my posts here which all blamed all the Brit pervs for acting like pervs. I really don't care that the prison are full of white pervs and that Straw is tackling a subset of the s.ex crimes going on in the UK - every little helps I say.

But I'm surprised that commenting that the girls should be targetted too should be criticised- so we should let the young white girls sleep around with whom they like - only they shouldn't sleep with brown Brits because BM doesn't like it? Hmm.

There's no indication that the white girls didn't sleep around willingly - and indeed looking at the police commentary about the 50 or so arrested for street-grooming, it looks like the young lasses were sweet talked into doing the deed with the multiple partners.

I wonder how many of these young English/British roses will grow up and brag about their wonderful exploits in their youth and laugh at others who may have different morals. Perhaps they may even turn up on a foreign forum and claim that people that DIDN'T sleep around or use the word 'fornicate' were the weird ones!


(Oh, whilst it is off topic - the 1930 Hope-Simpson report does give the population of Muslims and Jews in Palestine in 1922 and then in 1930:
1922 Jews = 71,793; 1930 Jews = 162,069; Muslims 1922: 520,438; 1930: 692,195.

Immigration of Muslims was from neighbouring countries, immigration of Jews was predominantly from Europe -with colonies being set up by both PICA and Zionists.
The current split of the Jewish immigrants to Israel between those from Europe and elsewhere can be assessed by looking at the split between 'Ashkenazi' and 'Mizrahi' and others)

Cheers,
Shafique

Carry on Shaf, but you can't get away from the fact that you think the girls asked for it. You let your true self shine through there didn't you? At the end of the day you are no better than the rest of us.
The young girls shouldn't sleep with brown Brits because BM doesn't like it? Who's off topic now? I couldn't care less who sleeps with who, why would I? This is about Pakistani men grooming young white girls, not Brits, as you keep stressing, but Pakistanis. If they hadn't of done wrong they wouldn't have been prosecuted and found guilty. That's what grooming is all about. Picking on vunerable people. Those young girls were taken in by these men. Whether those girls slept around willingly is by the by. And who are you to judge anyway? You really do think you are someone very special don't you?

The Brits grooming white girls are the pervs - yes. I keep saying this.

However, the crime is not rape - it is of sweet talking girls into sleeping around. How is what they do any different from the thousands of pimps out there on the street - white, brown, black etc pimps?

How many white teenage and white men in their early twenties are guilty of this 'crime' of getting girls to drop their pants? If they get their friends to sleep with their girlfriend and she agrees - that's not considered a crime by many people.

But here it seems that if the Brits have brown skins and get their girlfriends to willingly sleep around with other Brits - then we have more of an issue.

From my perspective - I've been consistent - tackle the pervs amongst the brown skinned Brits by all means, but don't forget all the other Brits too.

But let's also be clear, not everyone agrees with Jack's views - in the article you linked to Keith Vaz and the man from Barnados make excellent points:

[Jack Straw said..]
Young men were "fizzing and popping with testosterone" but girls from the Pakistani community were "off limits", leading them to seek other outlets for their desires, he suggested.

"They see these young women, white girls who are vulnerable, some of them in care... who they think are easy meat. And because they're vulnerable they ply them with gifts, they give them drugs, and then of course they're trapped."

But in an angry backlash, Keith Vaz, who chairs the home affairs select committee, said Mr Straw's comments were "pretty dangerous" and signalled that he would confront his colleague over them when Parliament resumes on Monday. "I have a lot of Pakistanis in my constituency, so does Jack Straw. I don't think this is a cultural problem," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

"I don't think you can stereotype an entire community. What you can do is look at the facts of these national cases, give it to an agency, make a proper investigation and see how we can deal with these networks of people who are involved in this horrendous crime."

Barnardo's chief executive Martin Narey said street grooming was "probably happening in most towns and cities" and that victims were Asian as well as white. "I certainly don't think this is a Pakistani thing. My staff would say that there is an over-representation of people from minority ethnic groups - Afghans, people from Arabic nations - but it's not just one nation," he said. "I don't think this is so much about targeting white girls - because black girls are also victims. It's about targeting vulnerable, isolated girls."

Cheers,
Shafique

Keith Vaz, do me a favour! He's as dodgy as get out! Just google his career. He's a Yemini by the way.

What white teenagers or young people get up to in their private lives has nothing to do with this topic of Pakistani men targeting young white girls for s.e.x. People cannot be prosecuted in England for sleeping together consensually. Pakistani men can be prosecuted for grooming young girls.

shafique wrote:The Brits grooming white girls are the pervs - yes. I keep saying this.

For Brits read British Pakistani

However, the crime is not rape - it is of sweet talking girls into sleeping around. How is what they do any different from the thousands of pimps out there on the street - white, brown, black etc pimps?

Sweet talking girls into sleeping around by plying them with Vodka and drugs? and the rest of your statement sounds like one of your What-aboutery claims Shaf, because pimps treat women like prostitutes it OK for the British Pakistani to do the same? the crime is on-street grooming not to be confused with anything else.

How many white teenage and white men in their early twenties are guilty of this 'crime' of getting girls to drop their pants? If they get their friends to sleep with their girlfriend and she agrees - that's not considered a crime by many people.

Consensual s.e.x between adults is exactly what it is, On-Street grooming of vulnerable young women is none of the above

But here it seems that if the Brits have brown skins and get their girlfriends to willingly sleep around with other Brits - then we have more of an issue.

if the girls were willing partners there wouldn't be a problem, the crime is On-Street grooming.

From my perspective - I've been consistent - tackle the pervs amongst the brown skinned Brits by all means, but don't forget all the other Brits too.

For brown skinned Brits, read British Pakistani, yes you've been consistent, you've been in denial after attempting to re-write the identity of the accused and blame anybody and everybody but the accused for the crime. Herve calls it smoke and mirrors, I see it for exactly what it is.

Regards

Dillon wrote:

shafique wrote:The Brits grooming white girls are the pervs - yes. I keep saying this.

For Brits read British Pakistani

Yes, British guys of 'Pakistani heritage' but also other British guys - as the article itself quotes Martin Narey of Barnados saying.

Dillon wrote:

However, the crime is not rape - it is of sweet talking girls into sleeping around. How is what they do any different from the thousands of pimps out there on the street - white, brown, black etc pimps?

Sweet talking girls into sleeping around by plying them with Vodka and drugs? and the rest of your statement sounds like one of your What-aboutery claims Shaf, because pimps treat women like prostitutes it OK for the British Pakistani to do the same? the crime is on-street grooming not to be confused with anything else.

Pimps getting girls to become prostitutes also ply them with vodka and drugs - so how is this different from what these guys have done? Pimps/Sugar Daddies enticing young girls to feed the demand for young prostitutes is well documented - and in saying the Brits doing the same to white, black and asian young girls for their own enjoyment is not to condone the crime, but quite the contrary - to lump it in with the pimps and the s.ex trade.

I trust you don't think I approve of the s.ex trade and the enticement of young English girls into that.

But, really, how is the grooming any different from Pimps using the same tactics to get girls into the profession?

Dillon wrote:

From my perspective - I've been consistent - tackle the pervs amongst the brown skinned Brits by all means, but don't forget all the other Brits too.

For brown skinned Brits, read British Pakistani, yes you've been consistent, you've been in denial after attempting to re-write the identity of the accused and blame anybody and everybody but the accused for the crime. Herve calls it smoke and mirrors, I see it for exactly what it is.

[/quote]

Has someone hijacked my account?

Denial? Are you confusing me with someone else?

The Brits who committed the crimes are just that - criminals. No denial there. The article states that it is not only Brits from Pakistani background that are the problem, and that it is not only white girls who are targetted.

No smoke. No mirrors.

Cheers,
Shafique

Bethsmum wrote:Keith Vaz, do me a favour! He's as dodgy as get out! Just google his career. He's a Yemini by the way.

Seems like a reasonable request.

Wiki tells me he is a British MP, Cambridge educated solicitor who was born to Indian parents in Aden, Yemen before coming to the UK at the age of 9.

I guess being a Cambridge graduate and a member of Parliament, he has some standing when it comes to commenting on Jack Straw's views.

Bethsmum wrote:What white teenagers or young people get up to in their private lives has nothing to do with this topic of Pakistani men targeting young white girls for s.e.x. People cannot be prosecuted in England for sleeping together consensually. Pakistani men can be prosecuted for grooming young girls.

Yes, all men guilty of grooming can and are prosecuted in the UK for this crime. But we've already gone down the route of looking at prosecutions and the racial demographics of the perv population in British Prisons, haven't we.

BTW - do we really have statistics that show that the majority of people committing the crime of child grooming are not white? Child grooming also covers the anorak brigade who organisations like kidshield try and protect our kids from:
http://www.kidshield.co.uk/kidshield_pa ... istics.htm

No shortage of stats, it seems. We just have to choose whether to believe the chief executive of Barnados or Jack Straw on the point of whether it is right to single out the Brits of "Pakistani heritage" from the other Brit perps and pervs.

Martin Narey clearly states:

I certainly don't think this is a Pakistani thing

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Wiki tells me he is a British MP, Cambridge educated solicitor who was born to Indian parents in Aden, Yemen before coming to the UK at the age of 9.

You really don't pay any attention now, do you shaf

Our dear BM says he shouldn't even be British, just like you ! Let alone a MP or have any say in any matter other than if he has already booked his ticket to Aden or Mumbai.

Shaf, you conveniently forgot to mention the downs of Keith Vaz's career. As usual you only mention the parts that suit your story.
How about

In 2002 Vaz was suspended from the House of Commons for one month after a Committee on Standards and Privileges inquiry found that he had made false allegations against Eileen Eggington, a former policewoman. The committee concluded that "Mr Vaz recklessly made a damaging allegation against Miss Eggington to the Commissioner, which was not true, and which could have intimidated Miss Eggington or undermined her credibility".[12]

He's a chancer. I'm not impressed by his education, It means nothing at the end of the day if you are not honest.
Keep on banging on about the white prison population and try to divert attention away from this topic of Pakistani men targetting young white girls, and being successfully prosecuted for it too. Shame on the Pakistani community.

Indeed shame on the Brits of 'Pakistani heritage' (as Jack puts it) - and indeed shame on the other Brits who also commit the crime.

Vaz's comments are completely valid (and I note that BM doesn't even try to tackle what he said) - but the point made by the Barnado's guy is the killer one though - it is not a Pakistani thing. Why avoid this quote BM - you linked to these very words in your OP.

I'm personally very glad that the 50 or so pervs have been successfully prosecuted and locked up. Any constructive measures to prevent other Brits from committing the same crime (whether they are Brown, Black or White) will also be most welcome.

Cheers,
Shafique

I don't tackle what Vaz says because I don't rate him. He's biased because he is Asian. He's not going to condemn his own is he? Unlike Jack Straw who doesn't have a agenda. Barnado's are a charity, they will try to smooth the troubled waters won't they? They are not going to come out and be controversial are they?

Once again this topic is about Pakistani men targeting young white girls. Maybe you could start another topic to discuss white perverts, this is about Pakistani pervs.

Did any of the British Pervs also hold Pakistani nationality? If not, they are not Pakistani.

But I'm glad to see that you are an expert on the issue and can dismiss Vaz and Barnados even though their comments appear in the report you quoted! Classic!

The fact that the problem is not a 'Pakistani' one and that victims are not all white - are they just inconvenient facts for you?

Cheers,
Shafique

Like I said shaf. If you ain't white................

desertdudeshj wrote:Our dear BM says he shouldn't even be British, just like you ! Let alone a MP or have any say in any matter other than if he has already booked his ticket to Aden or Mumbai.

shafique wrote:Did any of the British Pervs also hold Pakistani nationality? If not, they are not Pakistani.

But I'm glad to see that you are an expert on the issue and can dismiss Vaz and Barnados even though their comments appear in the report you quoted! Classic!

The fact that the problem is not a 'Pakistani' one and that victims are not all white - are they just inconvenient facts for you?

Cheers,
Shafique

They're definately not English, I've seen their pictures, they're all over the British press.

With respect, that is not what I asked.

If they don't hold Pakistani passports, they are not Pakistani.

Please tell me you didn't repeat something as 'fact' when in fact you don't have a clue. Is this thread about Pakistani men picking on white girls, or is about men who 'don't look English to BM' picking on white girls?

"is it coz I is black? - booyakkasha!'??

Cheers,
Shafique

You don't know they held British passports either but you state time and time again they are Brits. I'm just here to counter act your argument. I'm no different to you, I just say what I mean while you try to disguise your meaning in a load of flowery words. I get where you are coming from. Just try to be a bit more honest.

No, I don't know whether the Brits have Pakistani passports either. That is why I meticulously used the words Jack Straw used 'Pakistani heritage'. My simple assumption (and I'm prepared to have egg on my face later) is that IF the pervs were NOT Brits, the Daily Mail brigade will be blazing this fact across the airwaves. Given their silence, it is pretty much a calculated gamble on my part that the guys locked up are indeed Brits.

Your logic seems to me - they look foreign, they are therefore Pakistani!

I can't get more honest that to quote the facts in the article you linked to - now, can I?

I personally would be embarrassed to admit that I was insisting the Brits were 'Pakistani' when in reality I didn't have a clue whether they had Pakistani nationality. But hey - if they look Pakistani, they can't be English then can they?

If you are just a moderate BNP voter, I'd hate to bump into a card-carrying BNP person!

Cheers,
Shafique

Why do Pakistanis want to deny their heritage? Why would they want to be known as British anyway when they obviously aren't? Just because you have been lucky enough to be given a British passport doesn't make you British. Most of them hate our guts anyway. They are always plotting something or other, if not grooming our young girls they are plotting to blow us to kingdom come. It's not so long ago 9 were charged with terrorist offences of planning attacks on Christmas shoppers. if they hate Britain so much why come in the first place. Probably for our over generous benefit system. they've all got shed loads of kids

-- Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:50 pm --

The only card I carry shows I want to donate my organs.

I've no idea what Jack had in mind when he used the words 'Pakistani heritage' - but to me it read like a euphemism for British lads who BM might consider to be foreign .

I've got to ask, and please don't be offended, but did you actually read the whole article you posted?

You seem to be unaware of the facts in that article. Jack makes the point that the majority of s.ex pervs in prison are white, Vaz and Barnados guy point out that Jack's still stereotyping and getting facts wrong (eg. that the girls targetted include Asian girls and that it is NOT just 'Pakistani' men committing this crime)

Cheers,
Shafique

BM knows a British lad when she sees one. Those mingers weren't English.

You're boring me now Shaf, I'm off for a bottle of wine. I'm one of those feral underclass you refer to, but at least I know what I am. English.

^If I had known just asking whether you had read the article you posted would have short-circuited the discussion, I'd have asked much earlier!

Enjoy the vino.

Cheers,
Shafique

LOL ! BM's racists rant always remind me of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P192dnaE ... E&index=17

desertdudeshj wrote:LOL ! BM's racists rant always remind me of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P192dnaE ... E&index=17

Yawn! At least I don't deny my heritage DDS. English through and through. I don't just have the passport! But you don't even have that do you
Remember when you posted that you dream of a blonde at night and wake up aroused? Dream on DDS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1aefr66 ... re=related

LOL, has she been on the lash?

LOL English !? With all due respect to all fellow British forumers why would I want to be English, live in England or want a British passport ? or have you ever heard me make such comments ?

And when and where have you heard me deny my culture or my identity, infact I am very proud to be who I am and where my roots are from, wouldn't give that up for the world.

According to your own logic, so where are you from ? Can you trace back your ancestors from the begining of time to be residents of the british isles ?

What about all those White Africans, who proudly call themselves Africans ? What about all those Israelis ? They should also return to Europe. Since they are not Israelis....according to your logic.

I asked similar questions earlier but all I heard was ...dodge, deflection, dodge, dodge.

Yawn is right.

desertdudeshj wrote:LOL English !? With all due respect to all fellow British forumers why would I want to be English, live in England or want a British passport ? or have you ever heard me make such comments ?

And when and where have you heard me deny my culture or my identity, infact I am very proud to be who I am and where my roots are from, wouldn't give that up for the world.

According to your own logic, so where are you from ? Can you trace back your ancestors from the begining of time to be residents of the british isles ?

What about all those White Africans, who proudly call themselves Africans ? What about all those Israelis ? They should also return to Europe. Since they are not Israelis....according to your logic.

I asked similar questions earlier but all I heard was ...dodge, deflection, dodge, dodge.

Yawn is right.

Point me to the post where you have said you are Pakistani and proud? I'm not the only forum poster that has picked up that you wish you were western, isn't that right mate? I thought Pakistanis refered to everyone as Uncle?
I thought your latest wish was for Australia? If you are so proud of your culture why do you bemoan the fact that you have lived in Dubai for 34 years and hate it to the core? Why not head back to the Swat Valley?

I don't have to trace my ancestors, although I could, we have a family tree, I know where I belong. I am English! I don't try be anything I'm not, you can call me racist, whore, chubs, white Supremacist, BNP supporter anything you want, but I'm honest! I don't pretend to be something I am not.

Ah I see your still confused between the words, nationality, culture and identity. Just like a person can be British and still be proud of his Arab/Asian/African culture and roots...oh wait but they are not white so according to you they can't be British.

And btw according to that (your) logic I can't be Pakistani either, I must be an Indian, hang on !...this always gets complicated, can't be an Indian either..more East European or Central West Asian. Probally land up in even weirder places I looked further back ! LOL

And was it some more dodge and deflection that I saw

P.S : You should really visit swat valley to get it out of your system, you seem to be be overly obsessed with it

P.P.S : You were lying earlier, wern't you. When you said you couldn't even spell white supremacist. Why you....

I googled it, you should try it to see if it can throw some light on your heritage.

Ah so wern't lying, you had to google it