Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off

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Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 27, 2009
I wonder if this will actually go through................

LAHORE, Pakistan — A Pakistani court has ordered the noses and ears of two men cut off after they did the same thing to a young woman whose family spurned one of the men's marriage proposal, a prosecutor said Tuesday.

The anti-terrorism court in the eastern city of Lahore said it was applying Islamic law by ordering the punishment.

Lahore prosecutor Chaudhry Ali Ahmed said one of the accused, Sher Mohammad, was a cousin of the 19-year-old woman and wanted to marry her. Her parents refused his proposal.

Sher Mohammad and a friend, Amanat Mohammad, were accused of kidnapping the woman and cutting off her ears and nose in late September in the Raiwind area of Lahore.

The court on Monday also sentenced each man to 50 years in prison and told them to pay fines and compensation to the woman amounting to several thousand dollars, the prosecutor said.

Pakistan's legal system has Islamic elements that sometimes lead to orders for harsh punishments, but the sentences are often overturned and rarely carried out. Serious crimes are often referred to anti-terrorism courts in Pakistan because they move faster.

Violence against women, especially attacks by spurned lovers, also occurs frequently in this impoverished South Asian nation.

The men have seven days to appeal the ruling, Ahmed said.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/2 ... 00412.html

And there was also a similar ruling in Iran for a man to be blinded by doctors:

A court in Iran has ruled that a man who blinded a woman with acid after she spurned his marriage proposals will also be blinded with acid.

The ruling was reported in Iranian newspapers on Thursday.

The punishment is legal under the Islamic Sharia principle of qias, equivalence or analogy, which allows retribution for violent crimes.

The court also ordered the attacker, 27-year-old Majid Movahedi, to pay compensation to the victim.

The acid attack took place in 2004. The victim, Ameneh Bahrami, went to Spain for surgery to reconstruct her face but efforts to restore her sight failed.

The ruling was a response to her plea to the court in the Iranian capital Tehran for retribution.

"Ever since I was subject to acid being thrown on my face, I have a constant feeling of being in danger," she told the court.

Ms Bahrami also said that Movahedi had also threatened to kill her.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7754756.stm

In the West, some liberal judges have ordered some pretty 'innovative' punishments in the last decade or so as a way for criminals to be punished without receiving jail or prison time. It looks like, yet again, that the Islamic world is light years ahead of the West when it comes to punishing criminals other than merely throwing them in prison.

I mean, if they were in prison, all they would do is take up much space and cost money for the tax paying citizens. Now, as deaf and severely disfigured or blinded as in the Iranian case, these men do not have to languish away in prison and they can become productive members of society once more.

event horizon
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 28, 2009
A pretty gruesome return to Biblical punishments - 'an eye for an eye' indeed!

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Shafique
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 28, 2009
shafique wrote:A pretty gruesome return to Biblical punishments - 'an eye for an eye' indeed!

Cheers,
Shafique


Nope - don't think so. Christianity abolishes the Koranic concept of 'an eye for an eye', whereas in Rabbinic Judaism, this is understood as monetary compensation - one is to repay the damages they caused to an individual, for example, if they kill a calf, the offending party would need to compensate the victims by buying them a new calf.

Unfortunately, the Koran partially understands these previous concepts, but takes this a step backwards from Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism by offering victims the chance to literally apply this gruesome practice.
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 28, 2009
I know this is fruitless and like this ---> :banghead: But I got time on my hand today so why not :D

Try to be a non troll about it, I know its hard but try anyways.

Whats your beef mate ? Whats the point of you being here and spamming the place ? Why do you waste so much of your personal time and effort for all this ? You don't like Islam ...we get it, now move on man.

You surely know your not achieving anything ? (or are you really insane enough to think that your on a crusade and spreading the word of the lord by belittling another religon ? )Infact doing the exact opposite of your anti islam agenda. The big anti islamic media machine went to overdrive after 9/11 but did exactly the opposite what it set out to do.

Thanks to them, its the fastest growing religion in the world. Thousands really didn't have much on Islam before, but got curious after the media onslaught. At the end of the day liek the old saying goes. Any publicity is good publicity !

Well 99.99% you will avoid any of the questions addressed to you and twist this into some jibbersih which serves you but hey there is that 0.01% chance, i'll get a straight answer. But not holding my breath though :wink:

Anyways have a good day mate and if not keep us entertained with on how your twisted mind thinks.
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 28, 2009
pakistan together with India is one of the most effed up country in the world. 4get taliban or al qaeda or terroism for a minute.

both of the countries have a problem with their people using condoms 8) its like they think condoms are supposed to be some kind of hat worn on your head ;) yeah bloody dummies its for your head alright :D

if its not the population problem, the politicians are at it, if it aint the politicians its the police. if it aint the police its the bloody army. if it aint the army its the lawyers, if it aint the lawyers its the religious people who are always coming up with ideas on how to "MODERNIZE" Islam. They think Islam is modern when their women can go out on the streets with tight jeans, tight clothes and dont need to cover their heads at all. :D if thats modern islam i guess i should run around naked :D

anyways they call Pakistan the "Islamic" Republic of Pakistan. Fact is there is nothing ISLAMIC about the country. They say we have sharia law but the fact is they dont.

if they did there wouldnt be gang rapes, killings, murders, thefts etc etc.

so basically these guys will get 25 years most and will not have anything chopped off ;). the judge had a brandy before he came in so hes basically lost the plot. :D
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 28, 2009
Rudy I was addressing the other troll :mrgreen:
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 28, 2009
:oops: 8) :D :lol:
rudeboy
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 29, 2009
event horizon wrote:
shafique wrote:A pretty gruesome return to Biblical punishments - 'an eye for an eye' indeed!

Cheers,
Shafique


Nope - don't think so.



I thought Christians and Jews believed that 'an eye for an eye' was a commandment from God?

My reading of this OT commandment is that the punishment shouldn't be harsher than the crime, and that God's commandments in the OT still allowed for forgiveness.

Jesus said he had not come to change the Law, but I understand the Pauline Christian theology that says Jesus changed/abolished some of God's laws.

So, my comment still remains - these gruesome punishments are in line with the Biblical commandments of 'an eye for an eye'.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 29, 2009
Nope - Jesus clearly abolishes the concept of an for an eye - which was carried over from a Rabbinic teaching.

Happy to correct your mistaken beliefs.
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 29, 2009
As I said, Pauline Christian theology states that Jesus changed Mosaic Law, but not all who believe in Jesus take this view.

Some take Jesus at his word when he says he did not come to change the Law.

But the point is moot anyway - I wasn't arguing whether some Christians believe this law from God is abrogated or not, I was just pointing out that the law is in the Bible, is from God and that the punishments being meted out (whilst being gruesome) are in line with this Biblical law.

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Shafique
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 29, 2009
As I said, Pauline Christian theology states that Jesus changed Mosaic Law, but not all who believe in Jesus take this view.


Well, that's news to me and not one that Paul advocated. That would be a moot point in any event because the passage in question was what Jesus in the gospels says, not Paul in the epistles - unless you know of a passage where Jesus says something else in the epistle of James???

is from God and that the punishments being meted out (whilst being gruesome) are in line with this Biblical law
.

Apparently it's in line with Koranic law, not Biblical, since neither Christians or Jews take the passage from the Torah literally.
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 29, 2009
I agree that God's laws are in the Quran and that God says that punishments shouldn't be harsher than the crimes committed. As with the Bible, God says in the Quran that clemency is also allowed.

'An eye for an eye' is a commandment from God that actually talks about restraint in punishments, but commonly now taken to be a commandment in favour of capital punishment.

I totally agree that this interpretation should indeed be ignored by Christians and Jews - as I've maintained all along, we all have to choose which parts of the Bible to believe/follow - the only difference between us is the choice of which verses we follow and which we reject.

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Shafique
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 29, 2009
What was that? Something about blaming the Bible for punishments that the Islamic nations of Pakistan and Iran sentenced?

Maybe you can ask the respective judges if they were more influenced by the Koran or the Bible and see which religious text is really to 'blame' for these sentences.
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 29, 2009
Sure thing - we should indeed compare - the Biblical punishment is actually harsher than the Quranic equivalent which emphasises clemency.

Both are from God - and God presumably knew what He was doing when he said that punishments should be limited to the extent that you should not punish in excess of the crime committed.

Interesting that you interpret a return to Biblical punishments as 'blame' rather than a statement of fact.

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Shafique
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 30, 2009
Nope - this is a Koranic punishment.

Or are you denying that this type of punishment cannot be administered as per the Koran?
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 30, 2009
event horizon wrote:Nope - this is a Koranic punishment.

Or are you denying that this type of punishment cannot be administered as per the Koran?


Nope? I commented that:
Interesting that you interpret a return to Biblical punishments as 'blame' rather than a statement of fact.


Are you denying that this is a return to Biblical punishments? Interesting.

I totally agree that God's commandments in the Quran allow for punishments which do not exceed the harm caused in the crime, but (as I pointed out before) it also emphasises clemency. In this respect, it does not contradict the Biblical injunction of 'an eye for an eye' - which Jews and Christians agree is a commandment from God.


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Shafique
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 30, 2009
Cool, so we agree with my initial point that the Koran takes a step backwards while Rabbinic Judaism and the New Testament take one step forward by prohibiting the literal application of an eye for an eye.
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 31, 2009
Yes, we agree - the Quran does indeed unwind some 'new' interpretations that were given to the Bible and returns to God's original (untampered) teachings.

The Quran allows punishments that don't exceed the crime committed and also emphasises clemency.

God's punishments in the Bible are pretty cruel too - for example ordering the Jews to kill women, children and livestock of conquered villages. The Quran does not have an equivalent teaching - which indicates to Muslims that these accounts are also - now what did you call fabricated verses again.. ah ... yes - 'interpolations'. However, many Christians believe that the Bible is the word of God and acted out these Biblical acts of barbarity - notably when Christian massacred Christians in the 4th Crusade!

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Shafique
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 31, 2009
As I said, I'm glad we both agree that this 'gruesome' punishment is totally compatible with the Koran.

While the Koran takes a step backwards, Rabbinic Judaism and the New Testament move one step forwards.
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Re: Pakistan Court Orders Ears And Noses To Be Cut Off Dec 31, 2009
Glad we agree that the Quran does indeed roll back some of the 'interpolations' that have found their way into the Bible and its intepretations! ;)

Cheers,
Shafique
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