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Of course there are not may jews left in Norway or Europe in general. The holocaust killed most, to which the Norwegian and the Mufti had their share. Those that are left are leaving.

But we also should reminder that natives are also resposible for antisemitism:

Interestingly she says she has rarely experienced antisemitism from Muslims. The perpetrators are as a rule ethnic Norwegians.

And that in 2009 a newspaper reported:

In general, they say, Norway does not suffer from widespread anti-Semitism. Norwegian Jews are an accepted and respected part of the country.

And of course that although jews have way more chance to be harassed because of their ethnicity, in absolute numbers Muslims are more harassed in the Norwegian school system.

And of course we have the usual culprits that claim "just move along, nothing to see here, only jews leaving Europe because of mainly Muslim harassment".

Beliefs and excuses, no evidence!

When Jerusalem Post has to publish a retraction after Norwegian Jews corrected some misinformation and state:

In general, they say, Norway does not suffer from widespread anti-Semitism. Norwegian Jews are an accepted and respected part of the country.

..it takes a lot Chutzpah to argue otherwise!

Evidence would be more compelling- repeating beliefs smacks of desperation.

Cheers,
Shafique

A quote from 2009, while the OP speaks about the here and now. And at present a third of jewish students are harassed because of antisemitism.

LOL - full marks for persistence.

12 Jewish students and 62 Muslim students report facing harrassment in a survey of over 5000 Norwegian students, and you seem fixated on the spin in the OP (which omited these numbers).

I'll stick with the experience of Norwegian Jews as reported by Jerusalem Post- you continue to believe in the spin. I'd love to see the evidence that your view is more credible than the JP report!

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:12 Jewish students and 62 Muslim students report facing harrassment in a survey of over 5000 Norwegian students, and you seem fixated on the spin in the OP (which omited these numbers).

There are less than 1000 jews living in Norway and somewhere between 80.000-90.000 Muslims living in Norway. Thats a ratio of about 1:80. Jews have more than 6 times more chance of being harassed.

Also 1+1=2

What an active imagination you have.

The title of this thread should read, Muslim and Jewish students face harrassment in Norwegian schools. But why let facts get in the way of spin, eh?

But please, let the Norwegian Jews in on your insights.. they say:

In general, they say, Norway does not suffer from widespread anti-Semitism. Norwegian Jews are an accepted and respected part of the country.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote::) What an active imagination you have.

No really 1+1=2. No spin! Not everything is a conspiracy!

shafique wrote:The title of this thread should read, Muslim and Jewish students face harrassment in Norwegian schools..

Too bad you are not a mod anymore hey, so you could use your usual manipulations of changes thread titles.

LOL - I must say I admire your persistence in the spin even when the facts of the survey have been exposed - that 62 Muslim students and 12 Jewish students reported they faced harrassment.

Trying desperately to spin this to blame Muslims is funny.

However, it is interesting to observe the lack of any evidence and presence of a lot of hot air.

Cheers,
Shafique

Can't really see anything wrong with stating that jewish students in Norway have more than 6 times chance of being harassed than Muslims based on the OP.

Nothing wrong with spinning the statistics that way - as long as everyone is clear that you are basing this on 12 Jewish students who reported facing harassment in a survey which had 62 Muslim students reporting the same.

My personal view is that we should condemn all harassment, and not blame Muslims based on prejudice alone (for the harassment of these 12 school children).

The OP didn't make clear that we were talking of only 12 children.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Nothing wrong with spinning the statistics that way

Not everything is a conspiracy

When 33,3 % of jewish students are harassed and around 5% Muslims students, saying that jews have more than 6 times more chance of being harassed is not a conspiracy.

I don't think hiding statistical facts is a conspiracy - it is just the usual c.ock up when it comes to statistics.

Why hide the fact it was 12 students who faced the same harassment as the 62 muslim students?

Cheers,
Shafique

Guessing foe list functionality is buggy.

how come only 12 Jewish students reported facing harrassment, compared to the 62 Muslim students facing harrassment.

There's an upper limit for how many Jewish students can experience harassment when there were only 36 surveyed.

Foe list goes out the window when a thread headline appears which cries out 'beware, spin'. The fact that it contained misleading statistics meant it couldn't be ignored.

But hey, I'm not disputing you guys the right to interpret the fact that 12 Jewish students and 62 Muslim students faced harassment in school (of the 5000 who responded).

What is funny, is that the numbers don't match the hype of the OP.

As I said, the thread title should have read 'Survey reveals 12 Norwegian students experience anti-semitism and 62 experience Islamophobia'... but good of you to highlight this fact.

But then again, it also allows us to verify what Norwegian Jews told the Jerusalem Post - i.e. :

In general, they say, Norway does not suffer from widespread anti-Semitism. Norwegian Jews are an accepted and respected part of the country.

Cheers,
Shafique

Thank you for proving the point that antisemites will downplay antisemitism.

I'm still shocked you would slip up when you accused Jews of being race baiters.

Thank you for highlighting the survey which showed 62 cases of Islamophobia and 12 cases of anti-semitism amongst a group of 5000 students in Norway.

It highlighted very clearly the reliance by Islamophobes of misleading statistics and fantastical interpretations to make their case. Note the OP didn't say that the 12 students were harrassed by Muslims (but it took you some time to admit it was only 12 students).

It must be frustrating that I condemn all the harassment - the 62 cases as well as the 12. Stating facts and exposing yet another loon exageration isn't the same as underplaying real anti-semitism - just because you believe the spin doesn't make it real.

But, in future - trust what Norwegian Jews say before believing spin-meisters such as Elder of Zyion.. the truth IS out there:

In general, they say, Norway does not suffer from widespread anti-Semitism. Norwegian Jews are an accepted and respected part of the country.

(Thanks for giving me the opportunity to summarise the facts, yet again!)

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:It must be frustrating that I condemn all the harassment

What a extremely arrogant, narcist and self- centered remark.

What a confirmation of your frustration.

It would have been much better to join me in condemning ALL the harassment faced by Muslim and Jewish students.. but hey, the default position is to criticise Muslims - even those who just state statistical facts.

Cheers,
Shafique

My position is that throughout western europe jews are leaving because of mainly Muslim harassment.

Cheer up FD - we all understand your beliefs. It is a shame that this thread showed what it is based on.

As I said, next time be more careful about quoting stats in favour of Islamophobic beliefs - check them out first.

(And just check that the myths haven't already been debunked by the Jewish people in Europe already, as in this case here in Norway).


Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Cheer up FD - we all understand your beliefs. It is a shame that this thread showed what it is based on.

In the Netherlands anti-semitic incidents, from verbal abuse to violence, are reported, allegedly connected with islamic youth, mostly boys from Moroccan descent. Jews no longer feel at home in the city. Many are considering aliyah to Israel

There were recorded well over a hundred antisemitic attacks in Belgium in 2009. This was a 100% increase from the year before. The perpetrators were usually young males of immigrant background from the Middle East

In 2004, France experienced rising levels of Islamic antisemitism and acts that were publicized around the world.[149][150][151] In 2006, rising levels of antisemitism were recorded in French schools. Reports related to the tensions between the children of North African Muslim immigrants and North African Jewish children
Between 2001 and 2005, an estimated 12,000 French Jews took Aliyah to Israel

After Germany and Austria, Sweden has the highest rate of antisemitic incidents in Europe.[165] A government study in 2006 estimated that 39% of the Muslim population, harbor strong and consistent antisemitic views

In March 2010, Fredrik Sieradzk told Die Presse, an Austrian Internet publication, that Jews are being "harassed and physically attacked" by "people from the Middle East," although he added that only a small number of Malmo's 40,000 Muslims "exhibit hatred of Jews." Sieradzk also stated that approximately 30 Jewish families have emigrated from Malmo to Israel in the past year, specifically to escape from harassment
In 2009 the Malmö police received reports of 79 anti-Semitic incidents, double the number of the previous year (2008).
Sweden is a microcosm of contemporary anti-Semitism. It’s a form of acquiescence to radical Islam
Judith Popinski, and 86-year-old Holocaust survivor, stated that she is no longer invited to schools that have a large Muslim presence to tell her story of surviving the Holocaust.
many schools no longer ask Holocaust survivors to tell their stories, because Muslim students treat them with such disrespect, either ignoring the speakers or walking out of the class

In 2010, the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation after one year of research, revealed that anti-semitism was common among Norwegian muslims

Quoting wiki (yet again), won't change the fact that Jerusalem Post had to retract a series of allegations of anti-semitism in Norway and state:

In general, they say, Norway does not suffer from widespread anti-Semitism. Norwegian Jews are an accepted and respected part of the country.

It also won't disguise that this thread is about a survey which showed 62 Muslim students and 12 Jewish students being harassed out of 5000 respondents.

Must try harder next time. (and remember to use 'quotes' and references. )

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:(yet again)

Must try harder next time. (and remember to use 'quotes' and references.)

What an arrogrant piece of work you are shafique.

It also won't disguise that this thread is about a survey which showed 62 Muslim students and 12 Jewish students being harassed out of 5000 respondents.

And once again, there weren't even 62 Jewish students who were surveyed in the report.

It's absurd to compare raw numbers. Everyone else knows to use percentages for this reason.

Apparently not you, specially after the fictious pie chart disaster

desertdudeshj wrote:Apparently not you, specially after the fictious pie chart disaster

Disaster indeed - Bora Bora admitted she misread my initial comment after carrying on about something for several pages.