Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop

Topic locked
  • Reply
Nigeria Violence - Not a religious conflict - Archbishop Jul 17, 2012
From loonwatch:

Tragic, tit for tat violence has flared in recent months in Nigeria, and the usual assortment of pseudo scholars, serial fabricators, and other assorted anti-Muslim crackpots have seized the opportunity to frame the conflict in exclusively religious terms. Muslims are cast as villains waging unprovoked attacks on Christians, when in fact, the conflict is far more complex.

This 25-minute BBC audio documentary captured Christian youths celebrating a victory by roasting, and in some cases, eating, Muslim victims they had recently slaughtered, providing a gruesome reminder the conflict in Nigeria cuts both ways. Don’t expect to see links to this atrocity in the looniverse, where cherry picked coverage is exclusively focused on Muslim atrocities.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00fvldf

Fueled not only by religious and ethnic tensions, but also by extreme poverty, the conflict is aggravated by interference from mercenaries streaming in from other parts of Africa. The British colonial legacy and Western corporate interests vying for Nigeria’s vast natural resources also have a long history of exploitation that has left many ordinary Nigerians impoverished and further destabilized the country.
...
Recently Archbishop Ignatius Kaigama of Jos, Nigeria in an article published by Spero News also acknowledged religious tensions, but confirmed once again that the horrific massacres in his country result primarily from an interplay between poverty, injustice, and ethnic conflict.


Nigeria: Outsiders and ethnic tensions fuel savage massacres
by Martin Barillas
“The massacre is brought about by the confrontation between farmers and herders. It is an old problem that has not been solved yet” said Catholic Archbishop Ignatius Ayau Kaigama of Jos, who serves as the president of the Catholic bishops’ conference of Nigeria. According to a report from the Fides news service, he is visiting Rome, where he received the “Disarmament Archive – Golden Doves for Peace” award. He commented on a series of attacks waged on Christian villages in Plateau State, of which Jos is the capital. The attacks killed at least 63 people. In a further assault during the July 8 funerals of the victims, a senator and a local deputy were killed.
“I think the problem is economic,” said the archbishop. “The Fulani herders feel victims of injustice because their cattle are killed or stolen and are not compensated for losses incurred. I think that the anger originates from this situation drives them to attack in this terrible way.”
Archbishop Kaigama does not deny that there is also an ethnic dimension of the conflict: “The problem is between the Fulani and Birom. These two ethnic groups have been disputing for a long time. All attacks on villages in the area have always been focused on these two groups. There are no attacks involving other tribes. ” With regards to the religious aspect of the clash, the Archbishop replied:

The Fulani are predominantly Muslim, while the Birom are mostly Christians. For this reason it is easy to read ‘Muslims attack Christians’ or ‘Christians attack Muslims’, but as I said, the problem is primarily economic and ethnic.

Archbishop remains in constant contact with Jos and revealed new details on the recent massacres: “I spoke with the Governor of Plateau State who was really saddened and shocked by the deaths and the level of destruction caused by the attacks. He is convinced that the perpetrators of the massacres are not from the place, but instead come from outside.”
Said Archbishop Kaigama, “According to the Governor, the Fulani have a network that extends beyond Nigeria and has spread to neighboring Countries, the aggressors are also mercenaries from elsewhere, they are not the Fulani resident in the State. Several of them also wore military uniforms. We do not know if they were people dressed as soldiers, or if the attackers were helped by real soldiers. In the light of these revelations one cannot exclude political factors, but in my opinion the main problem is economic to explain this violence.”


http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/07/is-bok ... n-nigeria/

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 17, 2012
Ooh, now it is in capitals. You're not very happy this morning. What's the matter, hung over? ;)

Trolling will only get you banned. Again.

Cheers,

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 17, 2012
Is laughing something you object to? What a strange person you are.

Trolling will just get you banned. Again.

Cheers,

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 17, 2012
I think laughing is fine. What a strange question to ask. Now, will you stop trolling my thread. You'll just get banned again. I've already thanked you for the laughs.

Cheers,

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 17, 2012
Please stop trolling this thread. You can whine/fantasise to your heart's content and ask questions in another thread.

Cheers,

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 17, 2012
:roll: Trolling will get you banned. But thanks for bumping the thread.

Cheers,

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 17, 2012
shafique wrote:Please stop trolling this thread.


Hallmark wisdom: change within yourself what you don't like about others, and you will see the world around you will change.
evitav
Dubai Forums Frequenter
User avatar
Posts: 135
Location: Munich

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 17, 2012
We seem to have a troll infestation in this thread. :roll:

But it is nice of people to keep this thread on top of the list. ;)



Cheers,

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 17, 2012
shafique wrote:Please stop trolling this thread. You can whine/fantasise to your heart's content and ask questions in another thread.


Cheers,

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not a religious conflict - Archbishop Jul 17, 2012
Thanks for carrying water for Islamic terrorists...Again.

Strange the only time you post terrorist articles relating to Muslims is to excuse their behavior.

I find it curious you've never done the same when you've posted dozens of threads on Anders Breivik.

(Except to claim Ayaan Hirsi Ali was promoting terrorism when she did what you've always done - not very bright, I see)

But the reality is that Boko Haram's violence against Christians is a religious conflict:

Boko Haram Declares War on Christians

The militant Islamist group Boko Haram recently declared war on the Nigerian state and its Christians, vowing to attack them both until it establishes an Islamic state in place of the current secular government.

This month alone, gunmen opened fire on the congregation inside a church in Borno state, killing one and injuring three; later that same day, a suicide bomber detonated a car bomb next to an evangelical church in Jos that collapsed the entire structure, critically injuring 62; other suicide car bombings killed 18 and injured more than 40 near two churches in Bauchi state.

However, despite the danger, Nigeria's Christians continue to attend services.

“I always sense the fear in the atmosphere during Sunday services," said Pastor Abraham Ekeneh, "but we still don’t relent. We cannot stop attending Sunday services because if we do, it means we have helped them to achieve their objective.”
rayznack
Dubai Expat Helper
User avatar
Posts: 610
Location: inside

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 17, 2012
Quoting a Christian Archbishop is somehow seen as 'carrying water for terrorists' by our resident supporter of extremists. Interesting spin that.

Let's see what was in the OP that can explain this strange perspective of our anti-Muslilm poster:

the usual assortment of pseudo scholars, serial fabricators, and other assorted anti-Muslim crackpots have seized the opportunity to frame the conflict in exclusively religious terms. Muslims are cast as villains waging unprovoked attacks on Christians, when in fact, the conflict is far more complex.


and

..Christian youths celebrating a victory by roasting, and in some cases, eating, Muslim victims they had recently slaughtered, providing a gruesome reminder the conflict in Nigeria cuts both ways. Don't expect to see links to this atrocity in the looniverse, where cherry picked coverage is exclusively focused on Muslim atrocities.


Thanks for proving the point eh.

The moral remains - dont always trust what anti-Muslim bloggers feed you as the 'truth' eh. In this case, listen to the Archbishop.

Cheers,

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not a religious conflict - Archbishop Jul 18, 2012
You're confusing Boko Haram with fulani raiders.

Another failed attempt at spin.
rayznack
Dubai Expat Helper
User avatar
Posts: 610
Location: inside

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 18, 2012
Neither the Archbishop nor I seem to be the ones confused here.

Did you even read what the Archbishop wrote?

Try reading what the NYT said in the article 'Boko Haram is not the problem':

It was clear in 2009, as it is now, that the root cause of violence and anger in both the north and south of Nigeria is endemic poverty and hopelessness...

...Boko Haram has evolved into a franchise that includes criminal groups claiming its identity. Revealingly, Nigeria's State Security Services issued a statement on Nov. 30, identifying members of four "criminal syndicates" that send threatening text messages in the name of Boko Haram. Southern Nigerians — not northern Muslims — ran three of these four syndicates, including the one that led the American Embassy and other foreign missions to issue warnings that emptied Abuja's high-end hotels. And last week, the security services arrested a Christian southerner wearing northern Muslim garb as he set fire to a church in the Niger Delta. In Nigeria, religious terrorism is not always what it seems.

None of this excuses Boko Haram's killing of innocents. But it does raise questions about a rush to judgment that obscures Nigeria's complex reality.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/opini ... wanted=all

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not a religious conflict - Archbishop Jul 18, 2012
Yes, ignore the dozens of church bombings in recent months for one attempted arson.

Downplaying Christianophobic sentiment is a bit much coming from someone posting articles on how deeply rooted "Islamophobia" is in Europe.

It's almost like you don't have the same thought process as everyone else that would force you to analyze your views before sharing.

I suspect being right is irrelevant for you; it's more about getting others to believe what you spin.
rayznack
Dubai Expat Helper
User avatar
Posts: 610
Location: inside

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 18, 2012
I still haven't seen any of your anti-Muslim bloggers blame Christianity for the cannibalism and the Christian dressing up as a Muslim and trying to burn a Church.

But is funny that you're still clinging to your beliefs in spite of what the Archbishop and NYT are telling you is the reality. Funny, but not surprising.

Spin and hype is all you have these days. I suggest you spend some time working out whether you can actually make fig trees jump into the sea at your command or not.
philosophy-dubai/faith-and-moving-mountains-and-fig-trees-t51504.html

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not a religious conflict - Archbishop Jul 18, 2012
shafique wrote:I still haven't seen any of your anti-Muslim bloggers blame Christianity for the cannibalism and the Christian dressing up as a Muslim and trying to burn a Church.


They should if these Christians were members of Christian theocratic movements and/or were acting in the name of Christianity.

Why is this distinction lost on you so often?

Are you naturally obtuse or are you simply fond of making false comparisons?

shafique wrote:But is funny that you're still clinging to your beliefs in spite of what the Archbishop


The Archbishop never mentions Boko Haram, their targeted attacks on Christians and war against all northern Nigerian Christians; he talks of Fulani raiders who massacred 500 Christians from one village a few years ago.

shafique wrote:Spin and hype is all you have these days. I suggest you spend some time working out whether you can actually make fig trees jump into the sea at your command or not.


That's much more than what I can say you have for an argument.
rayznack
Dubai Expat Helper
User avatar
Posts: 610
Location: inside

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 18, 2012
You could have said 'no, my anti-Muslim blogger friends do not hype the attacks by Christians on Churches (!) and the cannibalism by Christians against Muslims'.

Now, your time should be more profitably spent actually reading and understanding what the Archbishop and NYT are saying about the attacks, including those by Boko Haram - as the Archbishop is EXACTLY talking about the spate of attacks which include those by BH. Please pay more attention to your reading in future.

He commented on a series of attacks waged on Christian villages in Plateau State, of which Jos is the capital. The attacks killed at least 63 people. In a further assault during the July 8 funerals of the victims, a senator and a local deputy were killed


Is your lack of faith in moving fig trees causing you to not think straight these days?

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 18, 2012
shafique wrote:Now, your time should be more profitably spent actually reading and understanding what the Archbishop and NYT are saying about the attacks, including those by Boko Haram - as the Archbishop is EXACTLY talking about the spate of attacks which include those by BH.

He commented on a series of attacks waged on Christian villages in Plateau State, of which Jos is the capital. The attacks killed at least 63 people. In a further assault during the July 8 funerals of the victims, a senator and a local deputy were killed




The attacks that happened the other week were by Fulani raiders (that would be the 63 people killed and politician assassinated later at the funeral for the victims). Uhm, try reading about Nigeria before telling others to learn about a topic you know nothing about.

Jos — With no let-up in the violence, which started on Saturday in Plateau State, the Chairman, Senate Committee on Health, Senator Gyang Dantong, and a member of the state House of Assembly representing Barkin Ladi Constituency, Hon. Gyang Fulani, were among scores of mourners killed yesterday in Matse village, Riyom Local Government Area by suspected Fulani gunmen.

The two lawmakers were reportedly killed when the gunmen invaded the village as they were attending a mass burial for 63 victims of Saturday's attack in Karkuruk, Barkin Ladi Local Government Area of the state.


http://allafrica.com/stories/201207090828.html

Please stop lowering my iq with your posts.
rayznack
Dubai Expat Helper
User avatar
Posts: 610
Location: inside

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 18, 2012
Your blogger friends over at religion of peace are calling the attacks as 'Islamic terror attacks against Christians' - I trust you'll tell them they are wrong now- and that they are actually tribal attacks and economically motivated primarily.

The article does state that there is some religious tension, but that the majority of the attacks are not because of religion. You can't spin your way out of that.

You have failed to spin your way out of what the NYT article says either.

Cheers,

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 18, 2012
Your friends at LW claim the fighting in Myanmar is due to "Islamophobia" rather than tribal/ethnic tensions.

I trust you'll tell them they are wrong now - and that they are actually tribal attacks and economically motivated primarily.
rayznack
Dubai Expat Helper
User avatar
Posts: 610
Location: inside

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 18, 2012
Myanmar - what has that got to do with your bloggers deliberatly misrepresenting the Fulani attacks? You're not trying a whataboutery argument are you?

Anyway, we've established that your blogger friends do fall into the category:

the usual assortment of pseudo scholars, serial fabricators, and other assorted anti-Muslim crackpots have seized the opportunity to frame the conflict in exclusively religious terms. Muslims are cast as villains waging unprovoked attacks on Christians, when in fact, the conflict is far more complex.


I thank you.

I presume you are just going to ignore the NYT findings... no surprises there. Don't let facts get in the way of hype, eh?



Now, about your faith in moving mountains/mulberry/fig trees and talking donkeys... why the silence on those topics?

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 18, 2012
shafique wrote:Myanmar - what has that got to do with your bloggers deliberatly misrepresenting the Fulani attacks? You're not trying a whataboutery argument are you?


Shows your inability to think using analogy.

shafique wrote:Anyway, we've established that your blogger friends do fall into the category:


Then LW must fall into that category too. Tell me, how is it you lack basic common sense?

shafique wrote:I presume you are just going to ignore the NYT findings... no surprises there. Don't let facts get in the way of hype, eh?


Don't let being wrong get in the way of believing you know what you're talking about.
rayznack
Dubai Expat Helper
User avatar
Posts: 610
Location: inside

  • Reply
Re: Nigeria Violence - Not A Religious Conflict - Archbishop Jul 18, 2012
Still trying a whataboutery argument?

Your anti-Muslim blogger friends have been caught out in their spin, and the best you can do is - ooh, I think LW is also guilty. What a sad and silly argument.

Cheers

Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

posting in Dubai Politics TalkForum Rules

Return to Dubai Politics Talk