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Speedhump · Jun 06, 2009

Yes, and deserved, as his comments were idiotic, QED it is not unreasonable to call him an idiot. It was not against you, so why are you bothered anyway. Are you turning protector of DF? I think you don't have the right qualifications....

No, you just want to start another spat maybe....

Red Chief · Jun 07, 2009

Speedhump wrote:No, you just want to start another spat maybe....

Not really, Speedy. My feet are tired in kicking your dead arse. Live so far.

Speedhump · Jun 07, 2009

Red Chief wrote:
Speedhump wrote:No, you just want to start another spat maybe....

Not really, Speedy. My feet are tired in kicking your dead arse. Live so far.

Don't kid me. You can't stop yourself knocking your soft head against my brick wall of logic.

Red Chief · Jun 08, 2009

Speedhump wrote:
Red Chief wrote:
Speedhump wrote:No, you just want to start another spat maybe....

Not really, Speedy. My feet are tired in kicking your dead arse. Live so far.

Don't kid me. You can't stop yourself knocking your soft head against my brick wall of logic.

Well-done, mate, even if it isn’t a truth. It’s the first time you gave a reply with some humor and really tough but without childish naming and your ordinary complaints against me around the forum.
I’m impressed.

Red Chief · Jun 10, 2009

Speedhump wrote:Yes, and deserved, as his comments were idiotic, QED it is not unreasonable to call him an idiot.

I’ve just remembered an interview that Italian minister of foreign affaires gave to Stephen Sackur from BBC’s “Hard Talk” program a year ago.
Stephen blamed the minister that Italian authority took fingerprints from Romanian gypsies who lived (and I believe continue living) in tent’s camps around Rome and another Italian cities illegally. Stephen called it as violation of human rights.
Italian replied that they took fingerprints only from gypsies, who don’t have any ID, for security reasons. The situation is quite similar to the one, described by RB.
Actually I like BBC in general, and Stephen with his “Hard Talk” in particular for his unbiased views on any event. So I guess that he expressed some common view on situation.

Therefore it seems like not everyone in the UK wants to humiliate somebody’s human feelings for security reasons.

Speedy it doesn’t mean that I share Stephen’s point of view. Actually I am more close to yours but you hardly call Stephen an idiot as you do with Rude Boy.

Speedhump · Jun 10, 2009

The general level of comments made on these forums by rudeboy is an indication of a level of irrational and kneejerk thinking which allows one to say that the comments are generally of an 'ídiotic' nature. They also have been very racist on occasion, against other nationalities also (as I proved to him last in another thread, quoting his words back to him, which he chose to ignore).

Stephen Sackur, although I'm not generally familiar with his work, I imagine does not normally make outrageous, biased or generally inflammatory remarks without any degree of logic being shown in his thought process. Playing the human rights card is now as common as calling people 'facist' when you don't agree with their actions (something which rudeboy does all the time here, incidentally). Childish, facile, imbecilic, idiotic; I don't really care which word you use to describe it.

I don't think there is a comparison on any level. I also find it a non-sequitur that because Sackur berates the Italians for their security scheme, he will also feel the same about disclosure of facial features in a public environment. Schools, airports, etc., etc., are all well know targets for terrorists. It just does not follow. You would need some hard proof to convince anyone of your view, Chief.

This rudeboy is not above 'humiliating' all British and Indian people (I cant recall if he has also slurred Filipinos). He deserves none of the sweet talking you would lavish on him. I think you are just making a 'straw man' for me to attack by bringing in comment of a presumably respected figure such as Sackur.

I will add nothing more to this matter; if you disagree with my calling this fool 'idiotic' you are entitled to, but I suggest you spend an hour reading his posts over the last few months first.

I personally would take the fingerprints and the DNA of every gypsy living in such a camp, and ignore their 'human rights'. The level of crime close to gypsy camps in the UK speaks for itself. Tolerance has been abused for far too long. These people want to live outside of the law, pay no tax yet be given free land where they are provided with services and amenities, but pay nothing for it, and be hard to trace (for obvious reasons). They should not be allowed to do so.

Cheers.

Bora Bora · Jun 10, 2009

Come on guys, chill out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8L_hLS2 ... feature=iv

Red Chief · Jun 10, 2009

Speedy, it looks like you faced some unresolved problems after invasion of those modern nomadic tribes. They don’t want to integrate and share your values but want to share western view on “human rights” only.
It’s a pity that you want to limit some human rights for security reasons. I believe that Stephen was afraid of that first move.

Speedhump · Jun 10, 2009

Red Chief wrote:Speedy, it looks like you faced some unresolved problems after invasion of those modern nomadic tribes. They don’t want to integrate and share your values but want to share western view on “human rights” only.
It’s a pity that you want to limit some human rights for security reasons. I believe that Stephen was afraid of that first move.

Nomadic tribes are a pure anachronism in the modern world, they have no place in a tiny country where there is no space and no land which is not 'owned'. Let them live on the Steppes, no, they don't want to. They want to live where they can get colour TV and fresh running water and healthcare provided by the State for free. They are leeches on the welfare state of the UK and they are responsible for a lot of crime. You're damn right I have a 'problem' with them.

Society is about integrating, and you know it. Nobody should have a right to live in the UK for free, avoiding their responsibilities under the lie of 'we are a free people, we don't want to be tied down'.

I have a MASSIVE problem with it. National security currently has nothing to do with the gypsy problem which you raised, not me.

Bora Bora · Jun 10, 2009

Well these "squatters" as I refer to them, exist in the US as well. They are comprised of families that are generational welfare and those who "fled" their countries for fear of persecution. If they want their human rights, then they should join the human race and try contributing to society rather than taking. Welfare was meant to be a temporary means of support until people got on their feet, but for many it has been a lifestyle, compliments of the government at the expense of those who abide by the law, work and pay taxes. It really sucks when you have worked you whole life and can't get good medical care unless you pay for it, when those who contributed nothing get everything for free.

Red Chief · Jun 10, 2009

If they want their human rights, then they should join the human race

It’s amazing. It definitely adds some charm to the discussion. You should add the sentence to your signature ASAP. We are not allowed to lose this gem.

Bora Bora · Jun 10, 2009

Red Chief wrote:
If they want their human rights, then they should join the human race

It’s amazing. It definitely adds some charm to the discussion. You should add the sentence to your signature ASAP. We are not allowed to lose this gem.

Hey, jump in anytime. As far as I'm concerned, if you want to live like an animal, then I'll call you an animal. If someone wants to live like a scavenger, then as far as I'm concerned, they are an animal. They are the scurge of society.

And congratulations on constructing three proper sentences.

Speedhump · Jun 10, 2009

Bora Bora wrote:Well these "squatters" as I refer to them, exist in the US as well. They are comprised of families that are generational welfare and those who "fled" their countries for fear of persecution. If they want their human rights, then they should join the human race and try contributing to society rather than taking. Welfare was meant to be a temporary means of support until people got on their feet, but for many it has been a lifestyle, compliments of the government at the expense of those who abide by the law, work and pay taxes. It really sucks when you have worked you whole life and can't get good medical care unless you pay for it, when those who contributed nothing get everything for free.

This really is the root of it. Western 'socalist' systems have been abused far too long, yet any goverment which tries to tackle the problem is labelled inhumane. Any form of means of testing applicants is shouted down as degrading to them. It's wholly incredible.

Red Chief · Jun 10, 2009

I don’t think it’s a problem with migrants themselves. In general they are very motivated although not very well educated people. On the other hand they have a very limited access to welfare.

Their children, citizens of appropriate respectful countries, are the problem. As I spoke with a few Germans they could accept Turks if they spoke German well, worked from 9 to 5 and paid all taxes, but as a rule they don’t do any of these.

Bora Bora · Jun 10, 2009

Red Chief wrote:I don’t think it’s a problem with migrants themselves. In general they are very motivated although not very well educated people. On the other hand they have a very limited access to welfare.

Moivated to do what when you are uneducated? Plow the fields? How do they work if they are uneducated and can't speak the language. When they legally migrate to a country they generally enjoy immediate welfare benefits. Maybe some countries allow only limited access to the welfare system, but in the US they get full blown benefits.

Their children, citizens of appropriate respectful countries, are the problem. As I spoke with a few Germans they could accept Turks if they spoke German well, worked from 9 to 5 and paid all taxes, but as a rule they don’t do any of these.

The children become second generation welfare recipients as will their children until one of them decides he wants to be more than someone living off of welfare.

Speedhump · Jun 10, 2009

Some people come looking for a new life and will work hard. Polish immigrants to UK generally are hard working, nice, looking to make better lives for themselves. But some people come because they know they can get a free house, free schooling for children, and free health care. They know that whether they work or not, they are better off than in the country they came from. These people should be sent back home.

Even UK citizens who freeload like this should not be supported.

And the so-called British 'gypsy' families who want to live on permanent fixed camp sites paid for by UK citizens taxes and avoid the economic and social system except where it benefits them should be put on a boat to Franz Josef Land, with their wheelless caravans.

Second and third generation immigrants are certainly a problem. Many of them feel that they don't belong in their parents' adopted country and cause massive social problems. A minority integrate into the community.

Red Chief · Jun 10, 2009

Wait, wait, Bora. I don’t have information about US but if anyone wants to immigrate to English-speaking country LEGALLY he has to pass rather difficult “IELTS” exam with high marks. Most people I saw on “IELTS preparation course” have different university degrees and worked very hard in Dubai. They also have to satisfy another very strict conditions.

As for illegal migrants you know that there are a lot of job in any country, which locals don’t want to do like dustmen, harvest collector. Who fills those vacancies? Those migrants. On the other hand they don’t have ant access to welfare system at all.

Bora, I’m surprised to listen this from you as soon as US has been built partly using cheap labour of immigrants.

Speedhump · Jun 10, 2009

Red Chief wrote:Wait, wait, Bora. I don’t have information about US but if anyone wants to immigrate to English-speaking country LEGALLY he has to pass rather difficult “IELTS” exam with high marks. Most people I saw on “IELTS preparation course” have different university degrees and worked very hard in Dubai. They also have to satisfy another very strict conditions.

As for illegal migrants you know that there are a lot of job in any country, which locals don’t want to do like dustmen, harvest collector. Who fills those vacancies? Those migrants. On the other hand they don’t have ant access to welfare system at all.

Bora, I’m surprised to listen this from you as soon as US has been built partly using cheap labour of immigrants.

This is rubbish, there are no exams to pass to immigrate to the UK legally, you only need to know how to hold out your hand.

Red Chief · Jun 10, 2009

Speedhump wrote:
Red Chief wrote:Wait, wait, Bora. I don’t have information about US but if anyone wants to immigrate to English-speaking country LEGALLY he has to pass rather difficult “IELTS” exam with high marks. Most people I saw on “IELTS preparation course” have different university degrees and worked very hard in Dubai. They also have to satisfy another very strict conditions.

As for illegal migrants you know that there are a lot of job in any country, which locals don’t want to do like dustmen, harvest collector. Who fills those vacancies? Those migrants. On the other hand they don’t have ant access to welfare system at all.

Bora, I’m surprised to listen this from you as soon as US has been built partly using cheap labour of immigrants.

I'll ask. My inf. is valid for CA, OZ and NZ for 100%.

This is rubbish, there are no exams to pass to immigrate to the UK legally, you only need to know how to hold out your hand.

Misery Called Life · Jun 10, 2009

To migrate to the UK you need to answer the IELTS. I applied to a couple of Brit Universities for my Masters, and becos my bachelors was from the UAE they asked me to answer the IELTS. But they were impressed with my CFA grades. Hence they've upgraded me straight to the interview round.
IELTS is a piece of cake. I got 9.
It was mostly nurses and students taking the IELTS if I remember right.

Bora Bora · Jun 10, 2009

Red Chief wrote:Wait, wait, Bora. I don’t have information about US but if anyone wants to immigrate to English-speaking country LEGALLY he has to pass rather difficult “IELTS” exam with high marks. Most people I saw on “IELTS preparation course” have different university degrees and worked very hard in Dubai. They also have to satisfy another very strict conditions.

As for illegal migrants you know that there are a lot of job in any country, which locals don’t want to do like dustmen, harvest collector. Who fills those vacancies? Those migrants. On the other hand they don’t have ant access to welfare system at all.

Bora, I’m surprised to listen this from you as soon as US has been built partly using cheap labour of immigrants.

First, the labour immigrants that came to the US worked to build that country. Key word: worked. I know that in my family history there are immigrants who labored to build the US. And there was no such thing as welfare at that time. Those immigrants were the ones who made that country and they became citizens. No free-bees then. You cannot compare the immigrants of then to those of now.

And it is clear that you don't have any information on the requirements to enter the US. Those from foreign countries that got instant citizenship could barely make an X for their signature, and didn't learn English. There is a difference between citizenship, which would allow one to go on public assistance, and entering legally.

The exam you are referring to: http://www.ieltsusa.org/. Obviously it is for those who want to continue with higher education and it is not an application for permanent residency. They also need to prove that they can support themselves as no government assistance is available to them. They would be applying for a temporary stay to further their education.

And yes, the US does allow migrant workers in because no one else wants to do the work, and shame on the government for turning a blind eye to these people. The government should make those collecting welfare go work on the farms and do the work that the migrants do and at least earn some of the free handout that they get all year long. If the government can put prisoners to work for pennies, they can damn well put those lazy bloodsuckers on the dole to work.

There is a big difference between entering a country legally (such as Dubai you need a visa) and entering a country legally with the intent to become a citizen, or at the very least a obtain a green card, as in the case of the US.

So, tell me, who were the laborers that built Russia?

rudeboy · Jun 10, 2009

Speedhump wrote:Thank god that the West will not give in to the stupidity of the ME and allow criminals (men) to walk through security checks and escape dressed as Muslim women because no-one will touch them.

I'd label you, as an idiot.

They want to live in the UK, Germany, Netherlands, wherever THEY MUST CONFORM.

wot the fricking hell are you on about. we are discussing about women wearing hijabs in UK and you are on about criminals wearing hijabs in the ME. lol

are u british or something??

Speedhump · Jun 10, 2009

Misery Called Life wrote:To migrate to the UK you need to answer the IELTS. I applied to a couple of Brit Universities for my Masters, and becos my bachelors was from the UAE they asked me to answer the IELTS. But they were impressed with my CFA grades. Hence they've upgraded me straight to the interview round.
IELTS is a piece of cake. I got 9.
It was mostly nurses and students taking the IELTS if I remember right.

I would just respectfully repeat that this is not a legal requirement to immigrate to the UK. If people need it to find work with some employers that's a totally different matter.

Speedhump · Jun 10, 2009

rudeboy wrote:
Speedhump wrote:Thank god that the West will not give in to the stupidity of the ME and allow criminals (men) to walk through security checks and escape dressed as Muslim women because no-one will touch them.

I'd label you, as an idiot.

They want to live in the UK, Germany, Netherlands, wherever THEY MUST CONFORM.

wot the fricking hell are you on about. we are discussing about women wearing hijabs in UK and you are on about criminals wearing hijabs in the ME. lol

are u british or something??

I realise it's difficult for you to keep up with conversations and the way that many different factors impinge on a debate, I suggest you just start a new thread all by yourself.

Misery Called Life · Jun 10, 2009

Speedhump wrote:
Misery Called Life wrote:To migrate to the UK you need to answer the IELTS. I applied to a couple of Brit Universities for my Masters, and becos my bachelors was from the UAE they asked me to answer the IELTS. But they were impressed with my CFA grades. Hence they've upgraded me straight to the interview round.
IELTS is a piece of cake. I got 9.
It was mostly nurses and students taking the IELTS if I remember right.

I would just respectfully repeat that this is not a legal requirement to immigrate to the UK. If people need it to find work with some employers that's a totally different matter.

Fair Enough. I was talking bout university. I have no idea what the requirements are for immigration.

My point was:-
To actually apply for immigration, first you have to reach UK. And to do that you need a job.For certain professions as well as for those from non English speaking countries IELTS is mandatory.
So there you go!

Red Chief · Jun 11, 2009

Bora Bora wrote:
Red Chief wrote:Wait, wait, Bora. I don’t have information about US but if anyone wants to immigrate to English-speaking country LEGALLY he has to pass rather difficult “IELTS” exam with high marks. Most people I saw on “IELTS preparation course” have different university degrees and worked very hard in Dubai. They also have to satisfy another very strict conditions.

As for illegal migrants you know that there are a lot of job in any country, which locals don’t want to do like dustmen, harvest collector. Who fills those vacancies? Those migrants. On the other hand they don’t have ant access to welfare system at all.

Bora, I’m surprised to listen this from you as soon as US has been built partly using cheap labour of immigrants.

First, the labour immigrants that came to the US worked to build that country. Key word: worked. I know that in my family history there are immigrants who labored to build the US. And there was no such thing as welfare at that time. Those immigrants were the ones who made that country and they became citizens. No free-bees then. You cannot compare the immigrants of then to those of now.

And it is clear that you don't have any information on the requirements to enter the US. Those from foreign countries that got instant citizenship could barely make an X for their signature, and didn't learn English. There is a difference between citizenship, which would allow one to go on public assistance, and entering legally.

The exam you are referring to: http://www.ieltsusa.org/. Obviously it is for those who want to continue with higher education and it is not an application for permanent residency. They also need to prove that they can support themselves as no government assistance is available to them. They would be applying for a temporary stay to further their education.

And yes, the US does allow migrant workers in because no one else wants to do the work, and shame on the government for turning a blind eye to these people. The government should make those collecting welfare go work on the farms and do the work that the migrants do and at least earn some of the free handout that they get all year long. If the government can put prisoners to work for pennies, they can damn well put those lazy bloodsuckers on the dole to work.

There is a big difference between entering a country legally (such as Dubai you need a visa) and entering a country legally with the intent to become a citizen, or at the very least a obtain a green card, as in the case of the US.

So, tell me, who were the laborers that built Russia?

IELTS has two versions - Academic or General - you can choose the version that is best for your needs. There are two kinds of reading and writing test - called modules. Both modules are held at the same time and in the same room as the listening and speaking test. When you register, you need to choose the module you want to take. Academic module - normally taken when applying for higher education or study abroad, or by doctors doing the PLAB test. The General Training module - is normally taken when applying for immigration to New Zealand, Australia or Canada.

Bora Bora · Jun 11, 2009

Red Chief wrote:
Bora Bora wrote:
Red Chief wrote:Wait, wait, Bora. I don’t have information about US but if anyone wants to immigrate to English-speaking country LEGALLY he has to pass rather difficult “IELTS” exam with high marks. Most people I saw on “IELTS preparation course” have different university degrees and worked very hard in Dubai. They also have to satisfy another very strict conditions.

As for illegal migrants you know that there are a lot of job in any country, which locals don’t want to do like dustmen, harvest collector. Who fills those vacancies? Those migrants. On the other hand they don’t have ant access to welfare system at all.

Bora, I’m surprised to listen this from you as soon as US has been built partly using cheap labour of immigrants.

First, the labour immigrants that came to the US worked to build that country. Key word: worked. I know that in my family history there are immigrants who labored to build the US. And there was no such thing as welfare at that time. Those immigrants were the ones who made that country and they became citizens. No free-bees then. You cannot compare the immigrants of then to those of now.

And it is clear that you don't have any information on the requirements to enter the US. Those from foreign countries that got instant citizenship could barely make an X for their signature, and didn't learn English. There is a difference between citizenship, which would allow one to go on public assistance, and entering legally.

The exam you are referring to: http://www.ieltsusa.org/. Obviously it is for those who want to continue with higher education and it is not an application for permanent residency. They also need to prove that they can support themselves as no government assistance is available to them. They would be applying for a temporary stay to further their education.

And yes, the US does allow migrant workers in because no one else wants to do the work, and shame on the government for turning a blind eye to these people. The government should make those collecting welfare go work on the farms and do the work that the migrants do and at least earn some of the free handout that they get all year long. If the government can put prisoners to work for pennies, they can damn well put those lazy bloodsuckers on the dole to work.

There is a big difference between entering a country legally (such as Dubai you need a visa) and entering a country legally with the intent to become a citizen, or at the very least a obtain a green card, as in the case of the US.

So, tell me, who were the laborers that built Russia?

IELTS has two versions - Academic or General - you can choose the version that is best for your needs. There are two kinds of reading and writing test - called modules. Both modules are held at the same time and in the same room as the listening and speaking test. When you register, you need to choose the module you want to take. Academic module - normally taken when applying for higher education or study abroad, or by doctors doing the PLAB test. The General Training module - is normally taken when applying for immigration to New Zealand, Australia or Canada.

And your point is?

Red Chief · Jun 11, 2009

Well, if you want to speak about that the problem of US authority is that they don’t want to make transparent and clear procedure for immigration people from their own countries. The immigration to America is closed from the most populated ones.

They started issuing driving licenses to illegal Mexicans in California 2 years ago instead. The next move will possibly be accepting Spanish as the second state language.

Another problem is a social security system, I think. You can see rather African Americans than fresh citizens in the dole queue. It’s very visible from TV news programs.
As one black con said in “Prison Break”: “ You want welfare? You better vote Democrat…”

Speedhump · Jun 11, 2009

Red Chief wrote:You can see rather African Americans than fresh citizens in the dole queue. It’s very visible from TV news programs.
As one black con said in “Prison Break”: “ You want welfare? You better vote Democrat…”

Doesn't seem that this is borne out in fact, lots of interesting reading here, I'm going through it as I have time :

One of the most contentious issues in the debate over immigration reform is whether or not the presence of immigrants in the U.S. labor force—especially undocumented immigrants—has a major adverse impact on the employment prospects of African Americans. The African American community has long been plagued by high unemployment
rates, and a relatively large share of African Americans lack a college education. As a result, some commentators argue that undocumented immigrants, who tend to have low levels of formal education and to work in less‐skilled occupations, are “taking” large numbers of jobs
that might otherwise be filled by African American workers.
If this is indeed the case, one would except to find high unemployment rates among African Americans in locales with large numbers of immigrants in the labor force—especially immigrants who are relatively recent arrivals to the United States and willing to work for lower wages than most African Americans. However, data from the U.S. Census Bureau reveal that this is not the case. In fact, there is little apparent relationship between recent
immigration and unemployment rates among African Americans, or any other native‐born racial/ethnic group, at the state or metropolitan level.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:PMY ... =firefox-a
Rob Paral and Associates
Research and evaluation for family and community development

Rob Paral and Associates (RPA) is a consulting firm that helps not‐for‐profit and philanthropic
institutions understand the populations they serve and the impact of their programs. RPA provides
information on demographic, social, and economic characteristics of communities.

rudeboy · Jun 11, 2009

Speedhump wrote:
rudeboy wrote:
Speedhump wrote:Thank god that the West will not give in to the stupidity of the ME and allow criminals (men) to walk through security checks and escape dressed as Muslim women because no-one will touch them.

I'd label you, as an idiot.

They want to live in the UK, Germany, Netherlands, wherever THEY MUST CONFORM.

wot the fricking hell are you on about. we are discussing about women wearing hijabs in UK and you are on about criminals wearing hijabs in the ME. lol

are u british or something??

I realise it's difficult for you to keep up with conversations and the way that many different factors impinge on a debate, I suggest you just start a new thread all by yourself.

u dont really come up with good come backs?. why dont u go and lie down on jumeriah road and act like a propa speed hump.

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