Mubarak Gone..

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Mubarak Gone.. Feb 11, 2011
Scenes in Cairo unbelievable jubilation....after yesterday's let down the people won today.

JoeTGF
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 11, 2011
Wow - people power at play!

Fantastic news for the people of Egypt.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 12, 2011
A nice speech by Obama

Mr Obama said Egyptians, who have been protesting in the streets for days and demanding Mr Mubarak step down, had made it clear they wanted nothing less than "genuine democracy".

"The people of Egypt have spoken, their voices have been heard," he said. "Egypt will never be the same again."


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shafique
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 12, 2011
Congrats to people of Egypt. A true display of power of the people and true determination for protesting for weeks and not giving up
desertdudeshj
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 12, 2011
Just awesome! I look forward to seeing a new Egypt run by the people - hopefully it brings more freedom, hope, prosperity and success.
kanelli
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 12, 2011
Yes indeed, congratulations to the people of Egypt who have managed to oust Mubarak after 30 Years of relatively unopposed rule, now the door is wide open, or at least ajar, for the next Tin-Pot Dictator to be manipulated into the seat of governance so he can concentrate his efforts on amassing his family’s US$ 70,000,000,000 fortune from the Cash Cow, Call me a cynic.

It’s the nature of the animal from this part of the world I’m afraid, you can lead a dictator to the waters of Democracy, but you can’t make him drink! And those that do bring change for the better by removing the ban on political parties, and introducing measures to decentralise Egypt's political structure and diversify the economy, and in the same Year Anwar Sadat founded the National Democratic Party. He was assassinated by members of Egypt's Islamic Jihad.

True democracy indeed.

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Dillon
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 12, 2011
I have never seen such a mass of people cheering about power being tranferred to a Military Higher Council. I do hope the best for Egypt, but true democracy is still a long way to go!
Flying Dutchman
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 12, 2011
Fantastic stuff.. (events leading up to Feb 1):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWQUju5L ... r_embedded
shafique
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 12, 2011
How high can your expectations be when people derail the nation over food prices which causes a further rise in food prices?

Anyways, it should make for interesting times for the popcorn industry. I've got my surplus of popcorn already.
event horizon
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 14, 2011
As Haaretz reports - 'the magic is not over'. I know this news will dismay the nay-sayers who are desperately trying to spin some people holding up posters of Nasser ( :roll: ) - but for the rest of us who put actual news ahead of blogger fantasies.. the news is encouraging.

Egypt's thirst for freedom has intensified, even after Mubarak's exit

Right now, the issue of the oppressive regime is the focus in Egypt. Issues like U.S., Israel, and disagreements between Muslim brotherhood and secular population will be tackled in their own time.

By Amira Hass

CAIRO - Prior to Mubarak's fall, demonstrators in Tahrir Square shouted "The army and the people - one hand." After the man who ruled for the past 30 years was toppled, those who listened closely noticed that the chant had changed slightly: "The people and the army - one hand."

Was someone behind this change? Did it evolve on its own, unintentionally? Was this a signal that the people - that hidden entity, which grew and developed into such a visible, vibrant creature in three weeks - are warning the army not to forget who is sovereign? Or perhaps those who listen carefully are attributing too much meaning to the change in words?

There is no answer, but the fact that the question is being asked just goes to show how proud the people are that their revolution was guided by some sort of internal logic, a collective logic, with a great deal of dialogue and listening. Not by orders, not by dictates from above. For example, without any directives, it became clear that attention should not be diverted from the main issue: the oppressive regime. There was no other issue, not the United States or Israel, not different economic visions or other problems, and certainly not the disagreements between the Muslim Brotherhood and the secular population. Each in its own time.

The "regular" protesters allowed themselves a break on Sunday, staying in bed a little longer and keeping away from the square. It and its access roads reverted to being used for vehicular traffic.

But the magic is not over: Not only this writer - three hours into her visit to revolutionary Cairo - but also a resident of the capital noticed as well that drivers are honking less. Only at a specific location were drivers asked to honk, for some unclear reason. And they eagerly responded, smiling along with the festive atmosphere that was sweeping over the cars and the army tanks, which had civilians climbing on top or posing for photos near them.

Another bit of magic: Drivers patiently waited for the square to be clear of vehicles that preceded them, and only then did they proceed into the huge area. Self-appointed traffic supervisors, perhaps traffic supervisors of the revolution, kept things rolling along better than any member of the hated police force. Everyone heeded their orders, even if they contradicted the orders of another.

"We have never seen such an empty space in the square, with drivers respecting others in such a way," the Cairene native commented with surprise.

A poster declared that today was a day for making Tahrir Square beautiful. Dozens of young and not-so-young persons were busy sweeping the surrounding sidewalks and the streets, collecting garbage, painting the edges of the sidewalk in black and white and the railings in green and gold. Some of the younger ones warned passersby not to step on the fresh paint.

"The Youth of the Revolution" is what they are calling themselves and they say it all started on Facebook (could it be otherwise? ). They say they themselves contributed money to pay the sweepers and to cover the cost of paint and brushes.

Irrespective of who initiated and who is paying, the cleaning and painting work, like the unusual show of generosity of the drivers, are an "embarrassment" to the regime: They expose its responsibility for all the violence seen as endemic to the day-to-day life of this city, along with the dirt, the neglect, the endless noise, the ongoing confrontations between the drivers.

"In three weeks of revolution we did not experience any sexual harassment by men," a woman said surprised. "What civilization emerged in these weeks! What culture!"

The activists are already talking about the days of the uprising as if they took place a generation ago, and now one must hurry and put memories to paper.

"The way ahead of us is long, that is true," said a teacher of Arabic, who works as a taxi driver to supplement his monthly income of $120 per month after 22 years on the job. "But before the path was blocked, a dead end."

His right hand is bandaged. He was injured when the local popular committee in which he is a member confronted a thief. "Those small criminals that the regime sent out - that is how they would always do it. [Mubarak] impoverished us and terrorized us just so we would need him and think we could not do without him."

In the square I heard some people complaining about the fact that others were happy at the fall of Mubarak and his ministers. The teacher-driver explained: "There are those, like the peanut seller, whom you told me of, who now feel pity for the side that lost. They are emotional. There are those who act that way because it is convenient for them, materially: They do not feel our pain."

He too spoke with pride of civilization: "The world thought that we are not developed - and here we are proving who we are. During the Mubarak period people were embarrassed to say they were Egyptian. We felt occupied. When it is another country occupying you, it is easier than when the occupier is from your own nation."

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/ne ... t-1.343238
shafique
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 14, 2011
We should probably listen to those with long winded copy pasties who have a history of getting future events wrong (anyone remember our fave loon quoting OBL and Sweden?), not those posters who are accurate in analyzing what's going on today and figuring out will happen tomorrow or next week, such as Islamic terrorism in Sweden/Scandinavia or a suicide bombing in Egypt targeting a Coptic worship service.

Nope, just dismiss their views and brush off them as 'naysayers'.

I just wish we had a time portal to see which of the loons who are claiming Egypt is on the cusp of a Jeffersonian democracy were declaring the Iraqi insurgency as the Minute Men, not the Baathist thugs and Islamist crazees most people with common sense knew them for.

Dillon's comments are spot on with regards to what one should expect for Egypt.
event horizon
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 14, 2011
I had to share this piece from the Economist - sums up the euphoria very well:

Egypt's euphoria
Feb 11th 2011, 19:42 by W.W. | IOWA CITY

JUBILATION is catching. It is impossible, for me at least, to watch the crowds in Egypt, overjoyed at Hosni Mubarak's hotly-desired resignation, with dry eyes and an unclenched throat.

The best explanation I have heard today for the mass euphoria rippling through Egypt came earlier this morning when one Al Jazeera reporter, choking back sobs, described the rise of Egypt's people and the fall of Egypt's dictator as "everything I've ever hoped for". Everything! Another correspondent, reporting from Alexandria, described Egypt's collective elation as the release of 30 years of bottled-up emotion. He said he had seen birth, that he had seen marriage, but he had never seen happiness like this, and it is everywhere. This is sublimely powerful stuff. It may be the most powerful stuff.

I admit that I am more than a little tempted to rain on the parade and note that Mr Mubarak's departure guarantees nothing and that it is not unreasonable to fear a turn for the worse. There's a tiny, stability-loving Burke on my shoulder, and I'm afraid he's no devil.

All the same, for now I'm not listening.

Well, I did listen a little, but I've heard enough. It is partly due to my Burkean worries that I feel the pessimist in me should just stuff it for now.

Whether or not Egypt flowers into a model democracy, whether or not Egyptians tomorrow live more freely than Egyptians today, today they threw off a tyrant.

The surge of overwhelming bliss that has overtaken Egyptians is the rare beautitude of democratic will. The hot blush of liberation, a dazzled sense of infinite possibility swelling millions of happy breasts is a precious thing of terrible, unfathomable beauty, and it won't come to these people again. Whatever the future may hold, this is the happiest many people will ever feel. This is the best day of some peoples' lives. The tiny Dionysian anarchist on my other shoulder is no angel, but I cannot deny that there is something holy in this feeling, that it is one of few human experiences that justifies life—that satisfies, however briefly, our desperate craving for more intensity, for more meaning, for more life from life.

Whatever the future holds, there will be disappointment, at best. But there is always disappointment.

Today, there is joy.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democrac ... 02/day_joy

The grapes aren't sour - not unless you want to believe the bloggers. :wink:

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 14, 2011
That the Egyptian army is now threatening to arrest the few dozens of protesters left is not a good sign. Until now what we see in Egypt is a military coup, who's leadership promises democracy in half a year. People should be sceptical about this. You would think protesters would only be satisfied with a civilian temporary government to say the least.
What makes me more wairy is that people claiming Iran is a democracy or support the dictatorship of China are the most blindly jubelent about Egypt.
The way I see it the people of Egypt want two things:
-food and jobs
-freedom
The first one will not approve in the short or middle-long term. The second remains to be seen.
Flying Dutchman
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 14, 2011
So far, so good.

The Egyptian people have managed to get rid of a tyrant with less bloodshed than the regime change in Iraq. And indeed, Iraq will be a good comparison of the progress that is made in Egypt.

Now, we'll observe what happens and see whether the people will sit by and let the victory won so far be taken from them. The path of progress is not a fore-gone conclusion, and it could yet still all go wrong- but I'm still hopeful for the Egyptian people.

I can't imagine they would settle for anything less than a civilian democratic government before the year end. So, let's wait and see.

Perhaps the hysterical bloggers may be proved correct - they haven't been so far (I mean, I didn't see any loon blogger predict that the people would be victorious.. so the track record is pretty poor right now. They certainly didn't predict that Christian and Muslim Egyptians would unite in the way they did during the revolution.)

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 14, 2011
they haven't been so far (I mean, I didn't see any loon blogger predict that the people would be victorious..


News to me. I haven't seen anyone make any type of predictions. So the bar you set for some has not been applied to others, namely yourself (although you would just claim you said so all along).

But really, if old DF threads hadn't been scrubbed from Google, wouldn't it be interesting to take a look back at your post(s) mentioning Sweden's safety from Islamic terrorism and quoting OBL?

Anyways, I can't help it if certain people are right. I just guess they have more common sense than others and are more firmly grounded in reality which allows them to figure out what actions are going to be taken next than those others who live in la la land.

As for those who are spot on, why shouldn't we listen to them and dismiss those who are categorically wrong every step of the way?

It’s only a matter of time before a suicide bomber detonates himself during mass in an Egyptian church.


http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/11/muslim ... ment-34574

Less than two months later, the poster was indeed right. The loons who dismissed his comments were wrong.
event horizon
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 15, 2011
This piece from Marwan Bishra looks at the options in Egypt as it transitions from the over throw of the dicatorship to hopefully a democratic and just system of government. As he points out, it's not over yet and it could yet go wrong.. but it is all yet to play for.

Apologies, I know it is long - but I felt it was so well written that I'd post in full rather than just link.

Three questions: Egypt’s transition
by Marwan Bishara

As change sweeps Egypt and becomes imminent in Arab political life, Marwan Bishara, Al Jazeera’s senior political analyst, evaluates the speed and efficacy of the transition to democracy.

What are the chances that the transition could still go wrong in Egypt?

New decisions of the supreme military council such as dissolving the country’s unrepresentative parliament that came after rigged elections, bodes well for the dismantlement of the old regime and erecting a new one.
However, the military’s insistence to keep the Mubarak appointed Ahmad Shafiq government for the transitional period has raised concern. Likewise, freezing the constitution is a double edge sword.

While it allows for writing a new more democratic constitution, it could also enable the military leaders to act according to its own interest, rather than the interest of the revolution.

It also begs the question, why hasn’t the military command cancelled the emergency laws nor freed those arrested during the last three weeks, not to mention the political prisoners.

All of which underlines the importance of continued pressure on the military until the regime is completely dismantled and its calls for a new temporary government to oversee the transition to democratic elections are heeded.

Today, public pressure is crucial to maintain the momentum towards positive change. While working with the military is indispensable for peaceful change, progress can’t be held hostage to its prerogatives.

Those with leverage over the Egyptian military, such as the Obama administration, need to keep the pressure on the generals to act as the true guardians of the revolution and its transition to republican democracy.
Otherwise, matters could get out of hand once again if the military falls back to old way of doing business, as pressure builds up against the spirit and of the revolution and its potential to spread throughout the region as a whole. After all many are bound to lose because of the historic changes taking place in Egypt.

Who are the potential losers from the Egyptian revolution?

In the short term, the foremost loser are the region’s autocrats who most likely will face serious pressure as the spirit of peoples’ power spread around the Arab and even Muslim world. So will al-Qaeda and its ilk that preferred violence to peoples’ power.

In the long run, the three theocracies, or theocracy-based regimes - Israel, Saudi Arabia and Iran – could see their religious-based legitimacies falter in favour of civic and democratic legitimacy as more people rise and claim their governments as citizens and people not subjects and sects.

A united, democratic and strong Egypt can regain its long lost regional influence as an Arab leader. It will eclipse Saudi Arabia, put the belligerent Israeli occupation on notice, and curtail the Iranian Ayatollahs’ ambition for regional influence.

In reality none of these regimes would like to see the Egyptian revolution succeed, regardless of what they might say publicly. And if they can help reverse it or contain it, they will without any hesitation. Fortunately however, their conflicting agendas, animosity and differences will prevent these autocrats and theocrats from jointly conspiring against the young revolution.

How will the revolution attain its goals?

If the foremost winners from the revolution, peoples’ power and democracy, are to succeed, the revolutionaries must stay steadfast and continue to apply pressure for change.

Future praise of the military should be conditional on its performance.

The revolution has accomplished so much, but serious challenges lie ahead. It’s no picnic reversing decades of stagnation, corruption and nepotism.

They need to convince the military that they seek not merely cosmetic reform that encourages passivity and defuse the revolutionary spirit for change, nor mere change of faces and titles. Rather, they seek to wipe the table clean of the old ways and means.

It’s this only their revolutionary spirit and yearning for radical change that will insure their achievements are not lost or compromised. In the words of one American republican: Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

Egyptian revolutionaries have at last changed their and the Arab long held Arab motto “In-shallah” or “God willing” that presumes lack of action and indecision. Today’s spirit is in the realm of Ma-shallah, or “God wills it”, and it’s up to the people to make it happen.

As the Egyptian military command tries to bring back “normalcy” - which invokes stagnation in the minds of many - Egyptians are seeking extraordinary.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/op ... 51212.html

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 19, 2011
An interesting incident that didn't get much attention, which might be a significant sign IMO:

Google executive Wael Ghonim, who emerged as a leading voice in Egypt's uprising, was barred from the stage in Tahrir Square by security guards, an AFP photographer said.

Ghonim tried to take the stage in Tahrir, but men who appeared to be guarding Qaradawi barred him from doing so.

Ghonim, who was angered by the episode, then left the square with his face hidden by an Egyptian flag.


http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/02/18/138155.html


How do you celebrate a revolution in the Arab world? Involve alquds and martyrdom:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLM3CswkfQw&feature=youtu.be

Nope, the Arab world hasn't released themselves from their hatred against jews and Crusaders. Only when that happens, democracy will stand a fairer chance.

I am reminded of a famous quote from Golda Meir:

Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.


I think, peace can also be replaced with democracy and freedom.
Flying Dutchman
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 19, 2011
The spin is weak in you grasshopper !

Flying Dutchman wrote:I have a problem when things are made up and I have a problem with lies.


Allow me to rephrase the next line if you will

Maybe you should put the same amont of energy into accepting what really has happened instead of trying to putting a phobic and anti-everything spin on your rantings.

Where in this whole episode have the jews and crusades come up it ? Other than you. OH WAIT ! Could it be !
Nooooo.

Ever wondered if its the other way round ! Maybe if you and your ilk overcame their hatred of Arabs, Islam or anything to do with either of them, peace could have a chance. Instead of supporting and celebrating the overthrow of a brutal dictatorship after a long struggle of a popular, uprising you see this as an oppurtunity to peddle your smut.

Shaf was right, sour grapes indeed. Really must get your goat ! LOL
Keep on chasing the dragon hombre ;)
desertdudeshj
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 19, 2011
^ I hope you feel better now.
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 19, 2011
desertdudeshj wrote:The spin is weak in you grasshopper !
...
Where in this whole episode have the jews and crusades come up it ? Other than you. OH WAIT ! Could it be !
Nooooo.


:roll:

I feel sorry for the Islamophobes - so much hatred, so little time. The rest of humanity is sharing the joy of the Egyptian people and hoping for the best, whilst this minority is scouring the internet for any small titbit they can spin and hype. Shame.


Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 19, 2011
^ when no more arguments are left and we see the whole revolution square chanting that they want to sacrifice themselved for Alquds, the usual MO of personal attacks is used.

* yawwwwn *
Flying Dutchman
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 19, 2011
We'll now take a break and let Suheir Hammad awake FD's sleepy soul...

http://www.ted.com/talks/suheir_hammad_ ... power.html
Berrin
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 19, 2011
Flying Dutchman wrote:^ when no more arguments are left and we see the whole revolution square chanting that they want to sacrifice themselved for Alquds, the usual MO of personal attacks is used.

* yawwwwn *


Well, as long as it isn't the dreaded Tea Party with their support for smaller government and demand for an end to deficit spending.

Nothing seems to get under the Loons' skin more than

Image

This? Not so much
Image
event horizon
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Re: Mubarak Gone.. Feb 20, 2011
I'm still amazed that Islamophobes can harbour so much hate, and construct so many fantasies. You guys put conspiracy theorists to shame.

Now FD's fantasy is that ALL the Egyptian protestors - Christian and Muslim - are going to liberate Jerusalem. Whilst it is a noble thought that they'd want to liberate a city that is under Military Occupation (according to the UN and pretty much every country in the world, including the US) - it just demonstrates to what extent loons have lost track of reality.

Do you guys really think the Egyptian Christians are going to liberate Jerusalem rather than focus on building a stable state in Egypt? :roll:

Cheers,
Shafique
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