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kanelli wrote:How do they know they will be viewed as more virtous and closer to god?
I don't agree with it since they can't perform hajj with a veil or burka. But from religious pov they are wrong, but they are entitled to their opinion. I'm against their reasoning, but I don't push it on them. Apparently you claiming to take women side, yet still going against these women. This is interesting.kanelli wrote:How do they know they will be viewed as more virtous and closer to god? Did they just pull those notions out of a hat?
If she is grown up it would be her choice. Would you do the same if your daughter choose to wear burka?kanelli wrote: If your daughter told you she wanted to walk around in a tank top and mini-skirt in Dubai because it is her right to dress how she pleases, would you support her choice, or would you push her to dress more conservatively?
Exactly!shafique wrote:If they make choices we may personally disagree with - then that is a sign of tolerance that we don't insist we know better and criminalise their choices.
There are some religions that have that in their religious rites like that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyclad_(Neopaganism)kanelli wrote:I think the same could be said for people walking around naked and saying it makes them closer to god.
kanelli wrote:Shaf, you keep insisting on the criminalizing part when I have said I don't actively seek a ban. I could care less if there was a ban or not - I oppose the veil whether it is legally permitted or not.
Yes but they it is done here differently. You don't see people going around saying women are being oppressed into nudity by men, etc... It is against the norms here, end of the story. We know some women can choose to be nude, not our cup of tea but it is there choice, they can do it in a country that is nudity friendly but not here if they want to do this in public.kanelli wrote:Yes, but if a small number of those people wanted to walk around naked in Dubai or any Western city for that matter, they would be challenged. There would be calls for bans, and people would not want to accommodate their form of "religious freedom" because it conflicts with values in the dominant society.
Again you are mixing different issues, we are talking about religious freedom which I believe is based on Burka in west vs somebody going around naked for religious reasons, where in both cases people choose either extremes by their own liking.kanelli wrote:If women are being told by the Imam or those in their society that they have to shroud under loose sheets of cloth (face showing or not), while the men walk around in t-shirts and shorts, that is oppression because it is an unfair double-standard. The burden is on the women to dress in a certain way or her virtue is questioned. Similarly, I think women are being oppressed by big business which tries to sell products with se.x and show female bodies off far more often than male bodies. Young people are being over-se.xualized. It is just as silly for women to feel liberated by wearing a sheet with their eyes peeking out as it is for women to feel liberated by teetering in 6 inch heels and hiding their backsides with their purses when wearing a mini-skirt and attempting to get out of a car or go up an escalator. Who should be judging someone's virtue, and why is the emphasis always on the woman's virtue? Both men and women display their virtue by their actions, not how they dress. Each to their own opinion though, and each to their own dress...
kanelli wrote:If women are being told by the Imam or those in their society that they have to shroud under loose sheets of cloth (face showing or not), while the men walk around in t-shirts and shorts, that is oppression because it is an unfair double-standard.
kanelli wrote:In fact, the discussion was not limited to religious freedom or not, since some people still can't agree whether the niqab and burka are cultural or religious forms of dress.