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shafique wrote:You've got a short memory.

Gadfly, eh, FD all were given the benefit of the doubt in first encounters..

But hey, why don't you practice what you preach - start a thread on an interesting topic about Islam that we can debate, and then see what the responses are (from myself as well).

Cheers,
Shafique

Starting threads on Islam belongs to you and EH. I'm just a bystander and responder.

Fair enough - let's wait and see what the next available thread on Islam is and look at the responses.

This thread was about the similarities between Islamophobes and the KKK - we seem to have been distracted slightly.

Cheers,
Shafique

There was never this sort of thing in pre EH days here at DF, not much anyways. I'd call it more of a counter movement from Shaf, sometimes the dude does get carried away though.

In this day and age its a necessary evil, I guess. You can see the level of misinformation already out there even from people who have lived in the region for quite a long time.

So no workable explanation for what a 'loon' is.

I'm curious, BB, is a loon someone who lifts talking points from a missionary website and pretends to know more about a religion by claiming adherents of a religion aren't correctly following their religion?

kanelli wrote:Hi RobbyG!!!

Hello Kanelli!

event horizon wrote:So no workable explanation for what a 'loon' is.

I'm curious, BB, is a loon someone who lifts talking points from a missionary website and pretends to know more about a religion by claiming adherents of a religion aren't correctly following their religion?

Gee EH, you are, once again, confused. I don't refer to people as loons. You might want to check in with Shaf as he is an expert at identifying said loons.

I did suggest that you belonged in a loonie bin, but it didn't have anything to do with the word "loon" as it is used here.

Loon - Short for that very entertaining cartoon series "Looney Tunes"

eg: - Enjoy !

Bora Bora wrote:Once again, your point gets diluted with your name calling. Loon, non-loon, Islamophobe. But I do notice you don't mention the participation of a/any fanatic(s).

Well, as you know, I'm Muslim, and I sit on the middle of the fence and will debate on both sides. Not hardcore towards one side. That would make me neither a fanatic, Islamophobe, loon or non-loon. , so I guess I'm just someone with a opinion.

RobbyG can make statements with value, and probably due to the fact that he is an atheist he can see both or all sides, and for those who either agree or disagree and can have an intelligent exchange with him makes for good discussion/debate. It's interesting to see someone's view who has not had religion instilled in them. It's in the delivery and the content in which he presents his view. There is that one moment, which is forgiveable, when he went off the radar and thought the world needed to be better informed about Islam. I see that he has returned to his neutral zone.

Thanks BB. That is nice of you to notice.

One point that rings my bell... which is 'the off the radar moment', which really surfaces when sanity is disposed for the non libertarian views that support Islam, which is used (aligns heads) by some form of total government. (left side of the spectrum)

A fierce defender of Liberty will bring about revolutionary action against ANY form of total government control. Totalitarian ideologies are included in that (Islam). I like to determine the way I live, without punishment or governmental corrections per Sharia law or otherwise. Just as long as I respect another ones property and individual rights, which I expect back in return.

Hence my stance is a close 100% libertarian. Ron Paul for President! #RP2012

Bora Bora wrote:My point being Shaf, that you may develop more interesting discussions/debates without using labels.

Just imagine the deeply rooted frustation if you need to call your debating opponents constant names. Next to that the way I understand it some posters in here are very active with their foe list, while still peeking at the posts of their foes. Think about how disturbing that is.

So FD, you don't think that EH is an islamophobe? What would you call him then? And I don't get your fixation with the foe list. It is a tool to try to reduce the temptation to respond to people who tick you off. Sometimes people do look at blocked posts once in a while, what's your problem? If you don't like using a foe list then don't. Just spare us the whinging about how others are supposed to or not supposed to be using theirs.

kanelli wrote:So FD, you don't think that EH is an islamophobe? What would you call him then? And I don't get your fixation with the foe list. It is a tool to try to reduce the temptation to respond to people who tick you off. Sometimes people do look at blocked posts once in a while, what's your problem? If you don't like using a foe list then don't. Just spare us the whinging about how others are supposed to or not supposed to be using theirs.

Try defining what an Islamophobe is first. The last time you tried you ended up fleeing the thread after some scrutiny.

So what is an Islamophobe and we'll see if you're a hypocrite or not if you apply your terms universally.

kanelli wrote:So FD, you don't think that EH is an islamophobe? What would you call him then? And I don't get your fixation with the foe list. It is a tool to try to reduce the temptation to respond to people who tick you off. Sometimes people do look at blocked posts once in a while, what's your problem? If you don't like using a foe list then don't. Just spare us the whinging about how others are supposed to or not supposed to be using theirs.

I see event horizon already asked the question I wanted to ask. I think event horizon does make interesting points, to which most people in here can only respond to with severe personal attacks. That says it all. This thread is a prime example.
About the foe list, I donot have a problem with people using it, I just think its weird. Especially when users need to publicly announce their new additions to it. Thats also a bit off, publicly announcing you are ignoring somebody, by doing so you are actually doing the opposite. You donot want people to comment on your foe list? Then donot mention your foe list and you new additions in public. Its simple.

event horizon wrote:

kanelli wrote:So FD, you don't think that EH is an islamophobe? What would you call him then? And I don't get your fixation with the foe list. It is a tool to try to reduce the temptation to respond to people who tick you off. Sometimes people do look at blocked posts once in a while, what's your problem? If you don't like using a foe list then don't. Just spare us the whinging about how others are supposed to or not supposed to be using theirs.

Try defining what an Islamophobe is first. The last time you tried you ended up fleeing the thread after some scrutiny.

So what is an Islamophobe and we'll see if you're a hypocrite or not if you apply your terms universally.

Give me a break. I probably forgot about the thread, or I was away and lost track of it. Don't flatter yourself into thinking that anything you have to say would send me fleeing from a thread.

Islamophobe- One who is afraid of/and/or harbours hatred towards Islam and those practicing it. Typically these people cling to biased and negative opinions of the religion and engage in fear mongering about the religion. People with the same fear/hatred and behaviour regarding other religions besides Islam can also be referred to as Christianophobes/Hinduphobes/Judaiphobes etc. - Definition courtesy of kanelli

-- Tue May 24, 2011 9:17 am --

Flying Dutchman wrote:

kanelli wrote:So FD, you don't think that EH is an islamophobe? What would you call him then? And I don't get your fixation with the foe list. It is a tool to try to reduce the temptation to respond to people who tick you off. Sometimes people do look at blocked posts once in a while, what's your problem? If you don't like using a foe list then don't. Just spare us the whinging about how others are supposed to or not supposed to be using theirs.

I see event horizon already asked the question I wanted to ask. I think event horizon does make interesting points, to which most people in here can only respond to with severe personal attacks. That says it all. This thread is a prime example.
About the foe list, I donot have a problem with people using it, I just think its weird. Especially when users need to publicly announce their new additions to it. Thats also a bit off, publicly announcing you are ignoring somebody, by doing so you are actually doing the opposite. You donot want people to comment on your foe list? Then donot mention your foe list and you new additions in public. Its simple.

I agree that people should comment on the contents and try not to use labels. However, after being on this forum for a long time and seeing the threads and posts of EH, I feel it is suitable to use the label Islamophobe. You think he posts interesting things but I see anti-Islam propaganda.

Announcing that you are adding someone to your foe list lets them know that you will not be seeing their posts any longer and therefore not replying to them. It is harmless. Sorry if that seems to get up your nose. I guess we all have to learn to deal with things that annoy us.

You mean to tell me you don't recall defining an Islamophobe as someone who holds Islam as being inferior to another religion - and then going off on some other discussion when I asked you what that made Muslims who believed the exact same thing with regards to their religion compared to others?

But hey, thanks for your definition. Someone who hates and fears Islam is an Islamophobe. Oh, ok, so how are you going to show that I hate and fear Islam from any of my posts?

Typically these people cling to biased and negative opinions of the religion

What does that mean to cling to biased and negative opinions?

Everyone who isn't a Muslim or Karen Armstrong will end up being an Islamophobe based off of that.

engage in fear mongering about the religion.

What constitutes as fear mongering?

People with the same fear/hatred and behaviour regarding other religions besides Islam can also be referred to as Christianophobes/Hinduphobes/Judaiphobes etc.

Cool.

But I'm willing to add to your definition.

A '-phobe' can be identified as someone with a history of lifting their arguments of a religion from biased, missionary websites.

A phobe can be identified as someone who learns of another religion from biased websites and attempts to lecture adherents of a certain religion on how to correctly follow their religion while that 'phobe' has very little actual knowledge of the religion he or she is pontificating on.

These are just two examples I can quickly think of. Let me know what you think of both and then we can go on to try and spot any actual phobes on this forum.

FD could be a critic if he stopped being such a fan of fabrications like memri and such. There is hope for him yet

Do you have any other websites or organizations - preferably run by Muslims - that chronicle extremism and hate when it's shown on TV in the Muslim world?

Is it that Memri supposedly fabricates things or that you don't like Memri exposing to non-Muslims what is being said about them by Muslims?

I am happy to answer all your points. I'll need some time to get some quotes and examples from your post history. Stay tuned!

kanelli wrote:I agree that people should comment on the contents and try not to use labels. However, after being on this forum for a long time and seeing the threads and posts of EH, I feel it is suitable to use the label Islamophobe.

That shouldnot be a problem. I donot see the point however to mention it in almost every post as some posters do. This forum is flooded with anti-semites, I might have mentioned it once or twice, but donot go on and on about it. I actually think quite some posters show mentally illnesses, from narcism and anti-social personality disorder to Asperger, I donot think it is usefull to mention it every (other) day.

kanelli wrote:Announcing that you are adding someone to your foe list lets them know that you will not be seeing their posts any longer and therefore not replying to them. It is harmless. Sorry if that seems to get up your nose. I guess we all have to learn to deal with things that annoy us.

Ok, that makes more sense. I still donot see the point of repeated it again and again as some do, however. I just wish some posters would be more loyal to their foe list.

To be fair, FD, you and I need to be reminded that we're on someone's foe list because our posts are responded to all the time or what we supposedly say or link to is the subject of commentary in threads that have nothing to do with us.

We wouldn't have the slightest idea we were on a foe list if we weren't continuously told.

(though I do miss the one week this was first announced and we were thread stalked less often for that time)

kanelli wrote:eh, you are clearly an Islamophobe. Neither Christianity or Islam or superior to one another, so you or anyone else here can try to argue which religion and its followers are more moral etc., but ultimately you'll fail.

kanelli wrote:eh, please let me clarify. What makes you an Islamophobe is the constant posting of anti-Islam propaganda that others have shown to be incorrect. It is hyping up negatives of a religion, constantly, for the purpose of instigating others to dislike or even hate that religion.

This comes from dubai-politics-talk/church-attacks-leave-twelve-dead-egypt-t46276.html

I never officially defined "Islamophobe" as a person who thinks that Christianity is superior to Islam. The rest of the clarification I gave fits in with my current definition that I posted in this thread.

kanelli wrote:Islamophobe- One who is afraid of/and/or harbours hatred towards Islam and those practicing it. Typically these people cling to biased and negative opinions of the religion and engage in fear mongering about the religion. People with the same fear/hatred and behaviour regarding other religions besides Islam can also be referred to as Christianophobes/Hinduphobes/Judaiphobes etc. - Definition courtesy of kanelli

eh, you are clearly an Islamophobe. Neither Christianity or Islam or superior to one another, so you or anyone else here can try to argue which religion and its followers are more moral etc., but ultimately you'll fail.

Hey, thanks for posting that, this is what I said the first time around:

Actually, I think many would argue otherwise. Would you call anyone who believes Islam is superior to Christianity a 'Christianophobe'? Seriously, let's hope you're consistent with this. (Although I'm sure you won't be once you start asking Muslims to compare Christianity to their religion and hear their responses)

I noticed you didn't reply. So, the question is, are Muslims who believe Islam is superior to other religions 'phobes' or loons?

If not, why would someone be a phobe or a loon for believing Islam is inferior to their religion, etc, but not the other way around?

What of Muslims who have a history of distorting the teachings of other religions, getting caught lifting their arguments from missionary websites and claiming that mainstream sects of a religion are not properly following their religion?

I await your response.

eh, please let me clarify. What makes you an Islamophobe is the constant posting of anti-Islam propaganda that others have shown to be incorrect. It is hyping up negatives of a religion, constantly, for the purpose of instigating others to dislike or even hate that religion.

So is it the posting of anti-Islam propoganda or is it that it's shown to be incorrect? Or both? If one posted anti-Islam propoganda that was not shown to be incorrect, does that still make one an Islamophobe?

What is anti-Islam? This is strange you would mention that in a thread you called me an Islamophobe where I never mentioned Islam in the thread, at least not in the OP.

I guess anti-Islam is whatever you want to make it to be. That's exactly why your definition of an Islamophobe should be dismissed.

EH, did you miss the last part of my definition? I have answered.

You can dismiss my definition of Islamophobe, and still maintain your view that you are merely a "critic". I'll leave others to decide for themselves...

Many people on this forum have seen your posts since 2009, almost 56% of your posts are made in the politics section with most of the rest in the religion section, almost every thread you start or post in is about or related to Islam with contributions to non-Islam related threads occurring maybe once every 6 pages in your posting history.

Why are you constantly criticizing Islam on a forum in Dubai, which is a Muslim country? Is it your hope to show Muslims how mislead they are?

Shaf is on the forum posting about religion to combat your negative posts and it turns into a slugfest between the two of you trying to prove each other wrong.

-- Tue May 24, 2011 12:36 pm --

Flying Dutchman wrote:This forum is flooded with anti-semites, I might have mentioned it once or twice, but donot go on and on about it. I actually think quite some posters show mentally illnesses, from narcism and anti-social personality disorder to Asperger, I donot think it is usefull to mention it every (other) day.

FD, be careful not to class anti-zionists as anti-semites, you may need to reduce your list a little.

I think a psychologist would be impressed with your ability to diagnose people without medical examination or use of any assessment tools. Come on FD, which one do you think I am?

kanelli wrote:FD, be careful not to class anti-zionists as anti-semites, you may need to reduce your list a little.

Even so, the list remains the same. I donot see any antisemitic tendencies with a lot of people being critical about Israel.

kanelli wrote:Come on FD, which one do you think I am?

I am surprised you asked, but I think you are mentally healthy.

Whew, what a relief

Is "mentally healthy" the new label for sane??? I don't think we are going to see that label used, if at all, as other labels that are a constant.