Israeli Actions - Legal Or Not?

Topic locked
  • Reply
Israeli actions - legal or not? Dec 07, 2009
A new thread to look at the contention by Flying Dutchman that Israel is not in breach of international law.

There seems to be a disagreement on what a 'non-binding' judgement of the International Court of Justice represents. I'm taking the view that the court looks at the law and looks at Israel's actions and then decides whether Israel is breaking the law or not. The ruling in 2004 is unequivocably clear - Israel is breaking international law:

Ruling of the ICJ

On July 9, 2004, the International Court of Justice issued its opinion against the barrier, calling for it to be removed and the Arab residents to be compensated for any damage done. The Court advised that the United Nations General Assembly, which had asked for the ruling, and the Security Council should act on the issue.

The ICJ opinions were as follows:

The construction of the wall being built by Israel, the occupying Power, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem, and its associated regime, are contrary to international law;

Israel is under an obligation to terminate its breaches of international law; it is under an obligation to cease forthwith the works of construction of the wall being built in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem, to dismantle forthwith the structure therein situated, and to repeal or render ineffective forthwith all legislative and regulatory acts relating thereto, in accordance with paragraph 151 of this Opinion;

Israel is under an obligation to make reparation for all damage caused by the construction of the wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem;

All States are under an obligation not to recognize the illegal situation resulting from the construction of the wall and not to render aid or assistance in maintaining the situation created by such construction; all States parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War of 12 August 1949 have in addition the obligation, while respecting the United Nations Charter and international law, to ensure compliance by Israel with international humanitarian law as embodied in that Convention;

The United Nations, and especially the General Assembly and the Security Council, should consider what further action is required to bring to an end the illegal situation resulting from the construction of the wall and the associated regime, taking due account of the present Advisory Opinion.

The opinion were passed 14-1 by the court judges, except for the 4th decision which was passed 13-2.

Thomas Buergenthal, the American judge, was the sole dissenting member of the 15 judges on this ICJ panel. In his declaration he concluded that the court should have declined to hear the case since it did not have before it "relevant facts bearing directly on issues of Israel's legitimate right of self-defense". Judge Buergenthals choice of entitling his opinion a 'declaration' instead of the more contrarian 'dissent' was apparently due to his view that "there is much in the Opinion with which I agree"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... of_the_ICJ

Now, does the fact it is non-binding on the UN change the fact they ruled Israel's actions are illegal?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Israeli actions - legal or not? Dec 07, 2009
Defying Israeli Genocide at Home (in School) And Abroad (in Court)
http://www.wrmea.com/component/content/ ... court.html


What’s Next After the Goldstone Report?
http://www.wrmea.com/component/content/ ... eport.html
Berrin
Dubai Forums Veteran
User avatar
Posts: 1390

  • Reply
Re: Israeli actions - legal or not? Dec 07, 2009
FD didn't address the question below in the other thread (the question is in red):

shafique wrote:
Flying Dutchman wrote:If under internationial law the settelememts would be illegal, to whom does it rightfully belong then? It is terra nullius. It didn't belong to anybody rightfully before 1967.


Why the 'if'?

The ICJ has ruled unequivocably that the colonies are illegal. International Law doesn't give a free-pass to conquer land by force that you 'think' is uninhabited or even if it is uninhabited.

What was illegal about Israel's eviction of East Jerusalem residents and the bulldozing of their homes, was that it violated international law about what an occupying power can do.

Your argument that it didn't belong to anyone is reminscent of the racist Australian policies to aboriginal lands.

But shouldn't we really focus on what the International law actually says and what the International Courts have ruled, rather than whether your (interesting) view that the land didn't belong to anyone is correct? They've ruled on the issue - the building of colonies on land conquered in 1967 is illegal.

But if Israel's 1948 borders were created by the UN, then the West Bank etc was given to the Palestinians at the same time. How can this be 'didn't belong to anyone'?

Does it feel like you've painted yourself into a corner? (I'm intrigued as to how you'll avoid the fact that the colonies are illegal)

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Israeli actions - legal or not? Dec 09, 2009
I thought the sheba farms occupations was the only internationally recognised illegal action?

This is the only thing that springs to mind.
Roadtester
Dubai forums Addict
Posts: 241

  • Reply
Re: Israeli actions - legal or not? Dec 09, 2009
Building colonies or displacing people living in occupied territories is what is illegal.

Edit: The statement from the EU answers your question about what is illegal:

The Council reiterates that settlements, the separation barrier where built on
occupied land, demolition of homes and evictions are illegal under international law,

constitute an obstacle to peace and threaten to make a two-state solution impossible. The
Council urges the government of Israel to immediately end all settlement activities, in East
Jerusalem and the rest of the West Bank and including natural growth, and to dismantle all
outposts erected since March 2001.




cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

posting in Dubai Politics TalkForum Rules

Return to Dubai Politics Talk


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Last post