Islamophobia Or Anglophobia ?

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Islamophobia or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
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An article that exposes and refutes the recent comments made by Baroness Warsi. No need to ponder if the supporters of Warsi's recent tirade will directly address the points the author eloquently makes.

The author counters Warsi's unsubstantiated victimization with actual polls showing that British Muslims are intolerant of non-Muslims than the other way around by a 2-to-1 ratio.

The author then asks if "Islamophobic" are wholly unjustified, by comparing Muslim actions and support for violence and bigoted views to those in the Sikh and Hindu community, noting that the more tolerance Muslims are shown, the less the tolerant they are of non-Muslims.

Perhaps, as the author muses, Warsi will lecture Muslims in a very much needed lesson on tolerance instead of parroting the liberal talking points of Muslims as being the perpetual victims of White Britain.

In the UK, Baroness Warsi, better known as PM Cameron's pet Muslim, delivered a speech lambasting Britons as racists for in any way associating terrorism with Islam. If you have been guilty of trying to distinguish between moderate and radical Muslims, that too is now forbidden. According to Baroness Sayeeda Hussein Warsi, trying to distinguish between head-chopping and non-head-chopping Muslims only helps "fuel intolerance and misunderstanding". Which may or may not be better than Mohammed Asha and Bilal Abdulla, a British doctor and engineer, who filled up their Jeep Cherokee full of fuel canisters and tried to drive it into Glasgow International Airport.

Warsi warned that Islamophobia is the last acceptable form of bigotry. Actually the last acceptable form of bigotry appears to be Anglophobia, along with solid doses of anti-Semitism. In poll after poll, native Britons have been shown to be the most positively disposed toward Muslims in all of Europe, and British Muslims have been shown to be the most anti-Western in all of Europe. Clearly there's a problem here, and it isn't that mythical scourge of Islamophobia.

In a 2006 poll, 63 percent of Britons viewed Muslims favorably. Less than a third said that they thought of Muslims as violent. On the other hand, 67 percent of British Muslims viewed Westerns as selfish, 62 percent saw them as arrogant. British Muslims rated Westerners far lower than German Muslims, French Muslims or Spanish Muslims did. And 68 percent of British Muslims views Jews negatively, suggesting is still the last acceptable form of bigotry. And that rather than being the "New Jews" as some Muslim leaders like to claim, the Jews are still the old Jews. And maybe the Britons are the New Jews of Londonistan.

You might put this down to the resentments of an oppressed Islamoproliteriat, but most Muslims polled also believed they were fairly treated. Above the numbers for French and German Muslims. Yet British Muslims are also far more 'immoderate' (if one may dare use the word in the presence of Baroness Hussein) than other European Muslims. It almost seems as if Muslim bigotry against the natives increases proportionally with how well they are treated. That might help explain why younger Muslims are actually more radicalized or 'immoderate' than their parents who immigrated to the UK.

According to Warsi, Islamophobia has passed the "dinner table test", that apparently being the test where people dare to express an opinion around their own dinner table without being shipped off to stand trial before the European Court of Justice. But is it really the dinner tables of England that we ought to be concerned with, rather than its army of prayer rugs.

In an environment where 40 percent of UK Muslims want Sharia law, 10 percent support the 7/7 bombers and 13 percent admire Al Qaeda, 40 percent believe that 9/11 was a Jewish/American conspiracy, 62 percent do not believe in protecting free speech, 68 support the arrest and prosecution of writers and cartoonists who insult Islam and 36 percent support the death penalty for Muslims who leave Islam-- -- is it really time for another lecture on Islamophobia?

Shouldn't Baroness Warsi be donning a hefty burqa (which she assures us in no way represses women and is actually incredibly liberating in the sense that shackles make one feel incredibly free and being blindfolded helps you get in touch with the world inside your own head) and trot off to the grimiest mosques in Manchester to tell them all about the evils of Anglophobia?

That won't be happening of course, and not only because Baroness Warsi is a rich man's daughter who lost an election, but was nevertheless appointed a life peer, the Tory party co-chairman and made a minister without portfolio, represents UK Muslims about as well as I do. She has been told before by some of that immoderate crowd we're forbidden to refer to foe fear of "fueling misunderstanding and intolerance", that she will be stoned if she goes there. All her gay bashing still couldn't win her Muslim votes. And her current Briton bashing won't either. Warsi is a token Tory Muslim, a jumped up immigration lawyer who represents nothing so much as the palpable fear of even British conservatives before the onslaught.

And that's why there'll be lots of talk of Islamophobia, but none of Anglophobia. There is a reason why Islamophobia goes around the dinner table like bad curry, it's the same reason that Hinduphobia and Sikhphobia don't. The UK has sizable Hindu and Sikh populations, but they don't chop off heads, plant bombs, groom little native girls for the sex trade, curse at soldiers or trumpet that they plan to take over the country and implement beheadings for anyone who leaves their mad cult.

The very word is the tipoff. Islamophobia. There's a difference between bigotry and fear. Bigotry is directed at people you have power over. Fear is the relationship you have with those who have power over you. No one is afraid of people who eat different foods, listen to odd music or non-violently worship a strange religion. They might be hated, but not feared. On the other hand being afraid of those who think they have an Allah given right to murder your children in cold blood-- is not entirely unreasonable.

No one rides the underground, worried about Hindu or Sikh suicide bombers. Because there is no such thing in the UK. But when 10 percent of UK Muslims think the chaps who blew themselves up there are role models, then Islamophobia is as unreasonable as spending the night in a locked room with 10 men, 7 of whom hate you, 4 of whom want to force you to be their legal inferior and 1 of whom wants to kill you. Except that locked room is now England.

Islamophobia hasn't passed the dinner-table test, rather the prayer rug test. Muslims have openly cultivated an attitude of violence and intimidation as a means of gaining power and advancement. Some like Baroness Warsi are the beneficiaries of this process. And the Baroness Hussein knows that she is where she is, because of Islamophobia. Because her bosses are afraid of the rough men in the vicinity of the East London Mosque who keep grinning and miming hitting the detonator button. And more so they are fearfully afraid of what will happen if all their pathetic gestures of appeasement fail, and they will actually be forced to confront a problem with no overtly acceptable solution.

The British government has banned American preacher Terry Jones from entry, but has Jones called for a single murder, the way that numerous Muslim preachers in the UK have? Has he distributed tapes justifying the mass murder of people who are not members of his faith, the sort of tapes that can be found commonly in Muslim bookstores? Yet if Terry Jones' name were Anjem Choudary, he'd have a warm place from which to preach the overthrow of England. And scream vile hatred at returning soldiers. Jones' only crime is being critical of the Koran while trying to visit a country where 68 percent of Muslims believe that such criticism should be punishable under the law.

That may also be why Peter and Hazelmary Bull, a Christian couple, were dragged into court and forced to pay thousands of pounds to two gay men whom they refused to rent a single room to-- while Baroness Warsi's attempt to fish for Muslim votes with homophobia leaflets got her rewarded with a plum political spot that she has done absolutely nothing to deserve.


http://www.rightsidenews.com/2011012412 ... oblem.html

event horizon
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Re: Islamophobia or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
It looked like an interesting subject - but turned out to be another cut and paste from an Islamophobic author on an extremist right wing on-line paper from the States. ..

It also turned out to be a reply to British Baroness Warsi's speech - so it should really be merged with the thread already in existence.

In summary, the article seems to be saying:
"It is ok to hate Muslims, because they are indeed hateful, violent and they hate white people" :shock:

But hey, let's address the points made.

First:
event horizon wrote:The author then asks if "Islamophobic" are wholly unjustified, by comparing Muslim actions and support for violence and bigoted views to those in the Sikh and Hindu community, noting that the more tolerance Muslims are shown, the less the tolerant they are of non-Muslims.


I've yet to come across a bigot who can't justify to themselves their bigotry. This statement shows that there is indeed substance to the charge that Islamophobia exists - but the Islamophobes argue that this irrational hatred is 'justified'. :shock:

Warsi warned that Islamophobia is the last acceptable form of bigotry.


She seems to be completely right on this point - I couldn't anywhere in the BBC article where she justified or condoned the imagined 'Anglophobia' the author is throwing up as a smokescreen. Imagining an 'Anglophobia' doesn't make it a reality. (and why would the Baroness hate herself, a Yorkshire lass, you've got to wonder? ) ;)

The article quotes surveys where respondents say that they think 'Westerners' are selfish and arrogant. Sounds to me like the respondents believe that the 'West' is viewed as a consumer orientated, I'm-all-right-jack, selfish society.

This is the most hilarious 'what about ery' argument I've heard so far on the subject.

Anyway - I guess the best thing to do is to compare the rebuttal to what Baroness Warsi said, with this very weak argument. Then make up your mind.

Thanks for the laugh, eh.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Islamophobia or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
A year ago I said the UK lost it, now I think the UK is lost.
Flying Dutchman
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Re: Islamophobia or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
ccording to Warsi, Islamophobia has passed the "dinner table test", that apparently being the test where people dare to express an opinion around their own dinner table without being shipped off to stand trial before the European Court of Justice. But is it really the dinner tables of England that we ought to be concerned with, rather than its army of prayer rugs.

In an environment where 40 percent of UK Muslims want Sharia law, 10 percent support the 7/7 bombers and 13 percent admire Al Qaeda, 40 percent believe that 9/11 was a Jewish/American conspiracy, 62 percent do not believe in protecting free speech, 68 support the arrest and prosecution of writers and cartoonists who insult Islam and 36 percent support the death penalty for Muslims who leave Islam-- -- is it really time for another lecture on Islamophobia?

Shouldn't Baroness Warsi be donning a hefty burqa (which she assures us in no way represses women and is actually incredibly liberating in the sense that shackles make one feel incredibly free and being blindfolded helps you get in touch with the world inside your own head) and trot off to the grimiest mosques in Manchester to tell them all about the evils of Anglophobia?


Only the most special amongst us would overlook the excellent observations the author brings up.

shafique wrote:I couldn't anywhere in the BBC article where she justified or condoned the imagined 'Anglophobia'


Well that would be strange to look for because I don't recall the author making the point that Warsi condoned or justified Anglophobia, rather that it is highly unusual why our fearless Warsi hasn't donned the burka to lecture British Muslims on tolerance towards non-Muslims.

the author is throwing up as a smokescreen.


I don't think it's the author, bud.

Imagining an 'Anglophobia' doesn't make it a reality.


Good point. Unlike Warsi, polls show that British Muslims are more intolerant of Jews and non-Muslims in general than the other way around.

Something like twice as many British Muslims view non-Muslim Brits as violent than the other way around. But hey, you've already said you don't view Muslims holding negative views of non-Muslims as being forms of bigotry or a phobia.

But hey, this statement shows that there is indeed substance to the charge that Anglophobia exists - but the Anglophobes argue that this irrational hatred is 'justified'.

where respondents say that they think 'Westerners' are selfish and arrogant. Sounds to me like the respondents believe that the 'West' is viewed as a consumer orientated, I'm-all-right-jack, selfish society.


...violent, fanatical, arrogant, greedy, immoral. We're talking about British Muslim views of non-Muslim Brits. Now if the situation were reversed, and British saw Muslims as violent, fanatical, immoral and arrogant, that would mean ....?

This is the most hilarious 'what about ery' argument I've heard so far on the subject.


What is a what aboutery argument here? That British Muslims are far more intolerant and bigoted than non-Muslim Britons?

Anyway - I guess the best thing to do is to compare the rebuttal to what Baroness Warsi said, with this very weak argument. Then make up your mind.


Thanks for sharing your opinion. I think most members here will find the author's arguments quite thought provoking. Perhaps that's why you've chosen to lightly respond to his the actual comments and only to change his words around at that.
event horizon
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Re: Islamophobia or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
shafique wrote:In summary, the article seems to be saying:
"It is ok to hate Muslims, because they are indeed hateful, violent and they hate white people" :shock:


Baroness Warsi didn't say in her article that hating any other group was justified. Therein lies the difference.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Islamophobia or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
I think people can make up their own mind as to what the article says.

Duh.

It's funny how Anglophobes will poison the well immediately with accusations of racism.

I didn't find the article racist, but I do find British Muslims who view Westerners as immoral, violent and fanatical (along with their quaint views on the Jews) as being racist. Curiously enough, you've already said you don't believe such stereotypes of 'Whites' are bigoted.


Baroness Warsi didn't say in her article that hating any other group was justified.


You already did, though.
event horizon
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Re: Islamophobia or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
Many years ago it was the NF, now its the BNP, soon it will be Mr.Average, those of you who are not blessed with being British are missing the point by a country mile.

Most Brits do not care about other peoples religious beleifs, they just want to get on with life, have a bit of fun, drink beer, and get laid, we are a very easy going race, but we are also a violent race once we are pushed to far.

People who march down a street screaming hatred against a country that has welcomed them is bound to hack people off and common sense dictates that it would make even the most liberal of people a bit pissed off.

Many off these missguided young men are born and raised in the UK, but of ,i guess Pakistani heritage, maybe i am being stupid and naive, but what is keeping them in a country they clearly despise. ?
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Re: Islamophobia or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
Definitely agree with you.

The author touches upon this resentment by the most privileged immigrant/minority group in Europe:

You might put this down to the resentments of an oppressed Islamoproliteriat, but most Muslims polled also believed they were fairly treated. Above the numbers for French and German Muslims. Yet British Muslims are also far more 'immoderate' (if one may dare use the word in the presence of Baroness Hussein) than other European Muslims. It almost seems as if Muslim bigotry against the natives increases proportionally with how well they are treated. That might help explain why younger Muslims are actually more radicalized or 'immoderate' than their parents who immigrated to the UK.
event horizon
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Re: Islamophobia Or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
Agreed busa - but the OP is writing in a right-wing blog in the USA and trying desperately to spin a survey to justify the Islamophobic views he holds.

Just looking at street protests over the past year, the most violent (and numerous) have actually been student protests. Anti-globalisation marches have been big and with some violent, and of course the fascist thugs of the EDL aren't strangers to violence too.

But inventing 'anglophobia' to excuse their Islamophobia is a strange line of argument.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Islamophobia Or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
shafique wrote:Agreed busa - but the OP is writing in a right-wing blog in the USA and trying desperately to spin a survey to justify the Islamophobic views he holds.

Just looking at street protests over the past year, the most violent (and numerous) have actually been student protests. Anti-globalisation marches have been big and with some violent, and of course the fascist thugs of the EDL aren't strangers to violence too.

But inventing 'anglophobia' to excuse their Islamophobia is a strange line of argument.

Cheers,
Shafique


Agreed, and to be fair i would lock the lot of them up, there is no room for that in any country,BUT, the tree huggers and student wasters were being violent and destroying public property, is that worse than inciting racial hatred, a guy lobbing a pole at the old bill,should do time,but what about the guy who says all British troops should die, co's to me they are both equally as heinous.
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Re: Islamophobia Or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
Agreed Busa - there are Muslim troops fighting (and dying) in Afghanistan and the nutter was denounced by Muslim clerics as well!

The EDL, National Front, Combat 18, Al Muhajiroun, BNP extremists nutters are all the same - spewing hatred of others - some are white Brits, some are asian Brits- all are racist extremists.

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Shafique
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Re: Islamophobia Or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
Come the revolution Brother, when all normal people regardless of who or what they are join hands and bray the living crap out of the wasters,bigots,zealots,racists.

Bugger i sound like a facist hippy.
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Re: Islamophobia or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
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"Power to the People"
:mrgreen:
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Re: Islamophobia or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
Islamophobia has passed the "dinner table test", that apparently being the test where people dare to express an opinion around their own dinner table without being shipped off to stand trial before the European Court of Justice.


How strange it might sound, this has been proven to be correct.

It almost seems as if Muslim bigotry against the natives increases proportionally with how well they are treated. That might help explain why younger Muslims are actually more radicalized or 'immoderate' than their parents who immigrated to the UK.


Last weekend I was in Holland again. Read an article from the extreme left. It was about a group of a few hundred Finns casuing constant trouble in Amsterdam. The core problem was socio-economic. The message was: there is absolutely nothing wrong with somebody who robs bus drivers, old people etc, harasses women/girls and spits on people on the street whole year around, its society's fault. You might, and rightly so, think wtf?! It gets worse, those people are rewarded interships in a re-integration project. At the expense of hard working younsters who never came in contact with the law their whole life. For 5 to 10 years some politicians think drinking tea with the parents helps. On the contrary I would say.
Of course, when going out I experienced my fair share of Finnish aggression again.
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Re: Islamophobia Or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
Sounds bizarre to me. Sounds like a bunch of deadbeat Finns going to Amsterdam to spend their days smoking pot. Hardly useful for European society.
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Re: Islamophobia Or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
Drinking tea or smoking it?? :drunken:

So, the message is: be a criminal and get rewarded. :bigsmurf:
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Re: Islamophobia or Anglophobia ? Jan 25, 2011
Here is what a phobia is defined as -


A phobia is an irrational, intense and persistent fear of certain situations, activities, things, animals, or people. The main symptom of this disorder is the excessive and unreasonable desire to avoid the feared stimulus. When the fear is beyond one's control, and if the fear is interfering with daily life, then a diagnosis under one of the anxiety disorders can be made.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobia



An anxiety disorder in layman/woman's terms would mean "You are f***king nuts", and hence forth should seek therapy

But fear not children, There is hope for you -


Treatment of Phobias

Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) has been found to significantly decrease phobic symptoms by helping the phobia sufferer change his or her way of thinking.

http://www.medicinenet.com/phobias/article.htm



Attitude correction is often achieved with a more controversial technique - "Sharp blow in the face" , However its effectiveness is staunchly debated.
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