Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk

Our friends, al-Shabaab, are offering Obama to convert to Islam.

The catch? Yuz better do it or else....

Capiche?

But first, let's see if there's any precedent of shotgun conversions to Islam from its very own texts and teachings:

First, invite the unbelievers to accept Islam. Then, attack:

"Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war...When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them....If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them." -- Muhammad (Sahih Muslim 4294)

Now, it looks like the faithful adherents of Islam are somehow misunderstanding the above precedent!

MOGADISHU, Somalia -- A leader of Somalia's Islamist insurgency threatened to attack America during a speech broadcast Monday.

"We tell the American President Barack Obama to embrace Islam before we come to his country," said Fuad Mohamed "Shongole" Qalaf.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01258.html

How on earth are our friends from al-Shabaab getting 'convert to Islam, become a dhimmi or prepare for battle' wrong, wrong, wrong?

I thought he was a Muslim already?

^Well, one in 5 Americans do believe Obama is a Muslim.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 06913.html

Indeed, Bob Spencer (eh's guru) isn't sure he isn't:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/04/spenc ... uslim.html

And Bob's side-kick, Pam Geller goes even further:

Rehab: She also suggested that Obama is an anti-Semite, pimp and Jihadist…

Geller: Oh yeah, uh, I believe that is true.

Rehab: She is a certified loon. She’s a bigot of the highest order and you’re calling her your good friend Eric, so I don’t know how you feel about that now.

dubai-politics-talk/loon-exposed-fox-news-t43490.html

So, BM if you believe he is a Muslim - you're in good company!

Cheers,
Shafique

^Well, one in 5 Americans do believe Obama is a Muslim.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 06913.html

Wow, really?

That's about the same ratio of British Muslims who would support another 9/11 attack on America.

What do you suppose is the percentage of Brit Muslims who believe the 9/11 attacks were an inside job?

The 7/7 bombings?

But really, what I want to know, is what's your take on al-Shabaab calling for a shotgun conversion to Islam...or else?

Do you support your co-religionists or are you siding with non-Muslims who are aghast at such statements, even though al-Shabaab is merely following Islamic law?

So eh - are you among the one in five Americans who believe Obama is a Muslim?

As for my views about terrorism and Islam - I've been pretty categoric about being in the majority who believe in the whole message of the Quran that clearly states that all forms of terrorism are a sin and against the teachings of Islam. I have no issue with condemning EVERY act of terrorism - from Baruch Goldstein to the 7/7 and 9/11 terrorists.

I contrast my views with yourself who condones war crimes (such as the enslavement of 32000 virgins) and can't bring yourself to condemn Baruch Goldstein as a religious terrorist.
philosophy-dubai/most-extreme-religous-fanatic-here-t41961.html

God is clear in the Quran that there is no compulsion in religion and that Islam does not condone any forcible conversions - and that is my clear stance as well.

So, now we've cleared that up - what have these questions got to do with your fellow Americans gullibility when it comes to Islamphobic rants of the likes of Geller etc about Obama?

Surely you're not trying to change the subject?

Cheers,
Shafique

I've been pretty categoric about being in the majority who believe in the whole message of the Quran that clearly states that all forms of terrorism are a sin and against the teachings of Islam.

You're free to believe whatever you like. Even if there's no basis for it in either the Koran or the present day.

I have no issue with condemning EVERY act of terrorism - from Baruch Goldstein to the 7/7 and 9/11 terrorists.

The exception to this is that you're not against terrorism when it's performed by a seventh century brigand.

I contrast my views with yourself who condones war crimes (such as the enslavement of 32000 virgins) and can't bring yourself to condemn Baruch Goldstein as a religious terrorist.

Great, let me know when you're ready to condemn prophet Muhammad for his enslavement of peoples from various tribes.

God is clear in the Quran that there is no compulsion in religion and that Islam does not condone any forcible conversions - and that is my clear stance as well.

Indeed, those 'shotgun' conversions are not considered by Muslims to be forced - non-Muslims do have three choices, after all.

Perhaps that is also why you can't bring yourself to condemning al-Shabaab or address the hadith I quoted in the OP.

So, now we've cleared that up - what have these questions got to do with your fellow Americans gullibility when it comes to Islamphobic rants of the likes of Geller etc about Obama?

Good question, what does your question have to do with the OP?

shafique wrote:I have no issue with condemning EVERY act of terrorism - from Baruch Goldstein to the 7/7 and 9/11 terrorists.

Condemming terrorism is a given.
The next step is to acknowledge that the terrorism was a result of Islam.
The next step would be to say that all Muslims are terrorists.
EH is at one end of the spectrum.
You did a pretty good job of arguing against the islamic link which would put you at the other end Shaf.

benjw - I mentioned that I condemned all acts of terrorism to contrast with the opposing view that a terrorist who murdered muslims has not been condemned.

I totally agree that I don't blame Islam for the acts of terrorism and violence - any more than I would blame Judaism for Baruch Goldstein's terrorism (even though he was motivated by his religious views) nor would I blame Christianity for Eric Rudolph's* terrorist bomb attacks against abortion clinics and medical staff which were motivated by his religious views.

I don't deny that Goldstein and Rudolph's religious views motivated their attacks, and I don't deny that many terrorist acts (eg Sunnis targetting Shia and vice versa) are religously motivated. Even where the attacks are religously motivated, I'd argue that the Jews, Christians and Muslims are misusing their respective religions. (Islamophobes will argue that the terrorists are actually following Islamic teachings).

I also condemn the pIRA terrorist attacks - but I don't think they are motivated by their Catholicism. They may be Catholics and want a Catholic ruled state, but I'd classify their motivations to be political.

Classifying the pIRA as a politically motivated terrorist group does not lessen the condemnation. Neither does a similar view for those Muslims who are misguidingly using terrorism as a reaction to drone attacks and foreign occupation etc.

Cheers,
Shafique
*

Eric Robert Rudolph (born September 19, 1966), also known as the Olympic Park Bomber, is an American Christian terrorist responsible for a series of bombings across the southern United States between 1996 and 1998, which killed two people and injured at least 150 others. The Federal Bureau of Investigation considers him a terrorist.

(Islamophobes will argue that the terrorists are actually following Islamic teachings).

Muslim 'terrorists' will cite the texts and teachings of Islam to show that they are properly following their religion.

I also condemn the pIRA terrorist attacks - but I don't think they are motivated by their Catholicism. They may be Catholics and want a Catholic ruled state, but I'd classify their motivations to be political.

It's difficult to classify a group as religious when they do not seek the establishment of a theocratic state and/or are motivated by the texts and teachings of a particular religion.

As I said, I don't consider the provisional IRA terrorists as religious terrorists - but would say their goals are political. They are still terrorists who just happen to be Catholic.

Eric Rudolph and Baruch Goldstein carried out terrorist acts based on their religious interpretation of their respective religions, as do the Sunni/Shia terrorists killing each other. These Christian, Jews and Muslims ARE religiously motivated terrorists - and yet I would not argue that Christianity, Judaism and Islam condone the acts - whatever arguments the terrorists present.

For me, to condemn Al Qaeda's terrorist attacks doesn't matter whether they fall in the first category of politically motivated terrorists who happen to be 'Muslim/Christian/Jewish' or the second category of terrorists who are motivated by a warped view of their religious texts.

There are religious Jews who argue that Goldstein is a saint (and therefore, like you, refuse to condemn him as a religious terrorist) - but I would look extremely silly if I were to cite their arguments and claim that Goldstein was a good Jew!

I'll withdraw from this debate before dds gets on my case for troll enabling! I thank you.

Cheers,
Shafique

benwj wrote:The next step is to acknowledge that the terrorism was a result of Islam.
The next step would be to say that all Muslims are terrorists.

Your assumptions which are carried over to make subsequent assumptions, contains a lot of bias, and renders it completely invalid.

shafique wrote:So eh - are you among the one in five Americans who believe Obama is a Muslim?

I do believe that eh has yet to enlighten us on this question.

Surely he is not ashamed to answer? Hmm.

Cheers,
Shafique