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I find your critique of the question (in both forms of it) being posed most puzzling.

It is almost as if you don't want to answer for your actions after having had the selective nature of the quote and factual inaccuracy pointed out.

I understand your embarrassment, but if it was me, I would have answered the question.

Cheers,
Shafique

That was a personal attack. I will be happy to answer all your questions. Its just fascinating to see you cannot ask it in a nicely, normal, gentlemman like way. Just fascinating (and I am very serious about this).

Interesting way to avoid answering the question - attack the one who has exposed the misrepresentation and fallacy of your post. Hmm.

I am now pretty convinced that when you posted the OP you had not actually read the underlying article. That would explain why you reproduced the error made in on the Pro-Israeli site where they deliberately shortened the sentence you quoted, and I showed the full context of.

But what I can't explain, is why you misrepresented the quote even further?

(And let's not forget that all the main allegations aren't borne out in the actual article - no references to Nazism etc. Indeed FD's defence seems odd - talking about the mother liking pain, but yet not providing any quote that states this - even though I quoted the closest quote I could find, which turned out to be a quote about what Dutch midwives are taught.)

All hype, no substance?

Cheers,
Shafique

An English gentleman wouldn't have any problems being polite. Poster Dillon is an English gentleman, you, Shaf, are not.

I have never heard a Dutch midwife say "pijn is fijn", its just an free interpretation from the author. The expression "pijn is fijn", comes from "pijn is fijn, bloed is goed" (blood is good). The last I heard a woman referring to giving natural birth as "pijn is fijn", the woman expressed her desire for a natural birth, because it always gave her the best orgasm ever.

I know you don't believe me, and discussing Dutch semantics is futile with you, but the author is a wack job, and I can tell by the choice of words.

You are wriggling now FD. I assure you, many fellow Englishmen would not be as diplomatic as I am when dealing with blatant misrepresentations and dogged evasion. But I guess with you it is a hard habit to break - trying to discredit the poster rather than the message. I mean, that is what you're now trying to do with the Dutch mother after all.

But let's focus. The main issue is with the pro-Israel website misrepresenting the article, and with your even more selective quote and blatant misrepresentation in the OP.


Whether you have heard a Dutch midwife say 'pijn is fijn' is not really the point - the point is that in the article the lady says this is what Dutch Midwives are taught in the 'centre'. Indeed, pain killing injections for labour seems to be a matter of debate in the Netherlands (the article states that medical opinion is indeed 'pain is fine' for labour):
http://www.babybladen.nl/joanna/pijn-is-fijn

As you rightly point out she wrote this in a mainstream Dutch newspaper and there were 67 comments the last time I looked. None of the comments seemed to misunderstand what she wrote about Dutch midwives the way you have (you accuse her of loving pain!).

You thinking she is a 'wack job' is ok as an opinion - but let's deal with what was actually written and not the gross distortions on the website and in your OP.

Cheers,
Shafique

It appears that Dearjohn (Edit - I mean Shafique (smiley wink face!!)) speaks fluent Dutch!

Is there no bounds to this man's talents?

Indeed, pain killing injections for labour seems to be a matter of debate in the Netherlands (the article states that medical opinion is indeed 'pain is fine' for labour):
http://www.babybladen.nl/joanna/pijn-is-fijn

The statement is meant to be sarcastic.

FD wrote:

Indeed, pain killing injections for labour seems to be a matter of debate in the Netherlands (the article states that medical opinion is indeed 'pain is fine' for labour):
http://www.babybladen.nl/joanna/pijn-is-fijn

The statement is meant to be sarcastic.

This is no joke guys, apparently the pain absolutely fine for the purpose of child birth...

It seems that the stronger the pain the better the body produces hormones which helps various things both in favor of the mother and the baby..such as lower risk of internal bleeding, stronger contractions and faster delivery which would mean that there is less chances of cerebral hypoxia etc.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... ifery.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... dwife.html


.

^ So you're saying that the Dutch mother, Dutch doctors, midwives and healthcare workers etc are not 'wack jobs' after all. Hmm. Interesting.

But the question that still remains unanswered is why the selective quotes and misrepresentation in the OP were done. Error or deliberate spin? My money is on the deliberate spin.

Cheers,
Shafique

Just donot use the expression when guiding a woman through labor, you might not survive. .

shafique wrote:But the question that still remains unanswered is why the selective quotes and misrepresentation in the OP were done. Error or deliberate spin? My money is on the deliberate spin.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shaf, you realize that in multiple threads you are replying to your own posts? Whats up with that?

Nice try FD - but your spin is failing you spectacularly these days. As you well know, I'm just highlighting the questions that you are trying your best to avoid - and in any case, a poster can't reply to their own post.

So, let me repeat (again!):

But the question that still remains unanswered is why the selective quotes and misrepresentation in the OP were done. Error or deliberate spin? My money is on the deliberate spin.

No nazism in the article, just hype in the pro-Israeli website and even more distortion in the OP.

Cheers,
Shafique

I am failing spectacularly these days . Shaf, I know you are a bit socially awkward to say the least, but there is no need for pushing your own quotes down to everybody's throats.

I think we are all very familiar with your obsession with diagnosing everyone else FD - no need to apologise.

I wonder what psychologists will make of your ever inventive ways of not answering questions related to your posts. Hmm....



Your thread, your allegations but when investigated we find more hype, less substance. A recurring theme it seems. It must be somewhat frustrating for you and the websites you frequent when people take the time to look into the allegations to check out whether the 'opinions' are hype or fact.


Cheers,
Shafique

Phew, no fail this time . Can we expect a normal post from you Shaf in this thread, instead of your continuous ranting and non-sense? Until now you have shown normal is not an option for you.

What we have seen from you after the facts showing the baseless allegations in the OP has been evasion and weak attempts at being funny.

But I do like your diagnoses - it indicates to me that you've got no answers to the questions about your misrepresentations.

The irony is that you're now sooo predictable - you're our DF version of Memri!

Cheers

Shafique

I take it you have nothing to add then.

shafique wrote:you're our DF version of Memri!

I like that .

I thought you might - and no, apart from the unanswered questions you're avoiding, I have nothing further add on this topic.

Cheers,

Shafique