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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWxQS81g ... r_embedded

I thought the part of the video showing Hamas MP and cleric, Yunis al-Astal, calling for the conquest of Europe and the Americas (referring to their takeover as 'Islamic conquests') to be particularly interesting.

I thought warfare in Islam was only allowed in self-defense?



-- Mon May 24, 2010 6:32 pm --

Can we get an Arabic speaker to confirm the translations in the video are correct?

Melika, can you understand Arabic?

This is a true shocker EH.

Its been a while since I had seen this kind of video's. Insane theists.

Thanks rob.

It speaks volumes that you, a non-Muslim, was the first to comment on this thread.

I guess the other posters have selective blindness (or they don't want non-Muslims to hear statements from Hamas leaders for themselves).

I also thought the pro-genocide statements in the video were pretty revealing.

What about you?

Yes, it does speaks volumes that our resident scholars are very quiet all of a sudden. Truth is hard right?

You wonder where he gets his pro-genocide statements from?
He either has a textbook, or the guy just learned alot from his other, albeit Atheist, example of fascism.

Sick.

Mel's mother tongue is Persian.

Everybody can clearly hear Hamas speaks of killing ´jehud´.

Death is an industry for Hamas. Jews and their own children alike.

Just a side note. Get over the Crusades already! Seriously! Or was the humiliation of defeat in dar-al-islam so bad that after centuries it has to be mentioned again and again.

I think you will see, once Islam gets over the Crusades, it will progress.

shafique wrote:So, the Crusaders that killed Jews as a penance before setting off for the East, weren't actually following the Bible then.

Muslims do seem to have an obsession with the Crusades.

But, admittedly, Crusader ideology of fighting in defense of Christendom is far more benign than the Islamic doctrine of perpetual warfare.

I agree fella's. Islam is a relatively young religion. They need a little time to see the light.

Excellent video - I thought it would be conclusive proof that Hamas is anti-Semitic, wants to wage war against all non-Muslims etc.

But hey, when a Memri video starts with a clear lie - that Hamas broke the ceasefire in 2008 when it has been shown beyond a shadow of doubt that it was Israel that broke the truce on Nov 4 2008, well we know we're going on a Memri 'special'.

So, splice together some clips of resistance fighters firing rockets (presumably at the occupying power), take some clips which are saying Islam will triumph, throw in some translations saying 'we will kill each and everyone of them' and then ask people to believe this is proof that Hamas are blood thirsty Jihadists who want to kill all Joos etc.

As RobbyG says, Islam is relatively young - but c'mon guys - only those born yesterday is going to believe this Memri special is representative.

(Actually I'm quite encouraged, if this is the best that MEMRI could come up with against Hamas - MEMRI are on a losing streak.)






Now, someone here was having a go at Chomsky for 'telling lies' - hmmm.

Cheers,
Shafique

I think you need to see a psychiatrist Shafique. You are in absolute defense mode now.

Please tell us, do you agree with those views presented? Do tell.

But hey, when a Memri video starts with a clear lie - that Hamas broke the ceasefire in 2008 when it has been shown beyond a shadow of doubt that it was Israel that broke the truce on Nov 4 2008, well we know we're going on a Memri 'special'.

Yes, let's try and move beyond the hype and get at the facts.

The video starts off by saying that Hamas put an end to the truce - which is a factual statement. On December 18, Hamas officially ended the ceasefire while, on the other hand, Israel said they would like to continue the ceasefire, 'the truce had no expiration date'.

So, splice together some clips of resistance fighters firing rockets (presumably at the occupying power)

Yes, firing rockets at Israeli civilians behind the 'green' line is considered to be fighting against the 'occupying power'.

Boy, if only the Israeli side had such an imagination at distorting facts as you do.

take some clips which are saying Islam will triumph, throw in some translations saying 'we will kill each and everyone of them' and then ask people to believe this is proof that Hamas are blood thirsty Jihadists who want to kill all Joos etc.

Hold on a minute, are you saying speeches of Hamas leaders calling for the deaths of Jews and wars of aggression against unbelievers is not 'proof' of what Hamas really wants?

Oh, but editorials to catered to Western ears is more representative of Hamas' beliefs.

Makes sense.

Your factual statement is a bare-faced attempt of disinformation.

The ceasefire/truce was broken by Israel on 4 November - fact. Hamas subsequently attacked Israel - and hence the truce was broken by Israel and Hamas retaliated. I suspect had more than two or three seconds of the interview been shown, it would have made this point clear.

Can we at least agree on this verifiable fact?

Cheers,
Shafique

My factual statement is just that: factual.

The video correctly says that Hamas called off the truce. There is nothing incorrect about that. Israel said that they considered the truce indefinite while Hamas did not.

Let's get this clear then.

Do you agree that Israel broke the Truce on Nov 4th 2008?

(If so, then where does the Memri video say this?)


Given that the truce had been broken by Israel on Nov 4th (so much for considering it 'indefinite') and only then Hamas retaliated -there was no truce in effect when Hamas retaliated - as Israel had broken it.

Verifiable and yet Israel continued to lie throughout the bombing of Gaza that ensued that it was Hamas that broke the truce (with rockets).

Cheers,
Shafique

Ok, so we both agree that Hamas was the side to call off the truce but the Israelis were the ones who wanted to continue the truce.

Thanks for confirming this fact.

We can argue whether or not an Israeli response was inevitable with Hamas firing dozens of rockets into Israel per day before and after Hamas officially called off the truce.

Huh?

I think you're starting to believe the Memri hype.

Nov 4 2008, Israel breaks truce. Israel lies that it was Hamas who broke truce, Memri puts out propaganda video to reinforce the lie. Some believe it.

Cheers,
Shafique

Those clips illustrate the Hamas Convenant very well:

Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious.

The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews)

Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep."

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

And just for the fun of it:

It [the Zionist invasion] relies greatly in its infiltration and espionage operations on the secret organizations it gave rise to, such as the Freemasons, The Rotary and Lions clubs, and other sabotage groups.

shafique wrote:Huh?

I think you're starting to believe the Memri hype.

Nov 4 2008, Israel breaks truce. Israel lies that it was Hamas who broke truce, Memri puts out propaganda video to reinforce the lie. Some believe it.

Cheers,
Shafique

Did Hamas call off the truce or didn't they?

Once Israel broke the truce, the truce was broken. So, no Hamas did not call off a truce because the truce had already been broken by Israel

After Nov 4th, the Truce had ceased to be..

'The Truce is not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This Truce is no more! The Truce has ceased to be! The Truce expired and gone to meet 'is maker! The Truce is a stiff! Bereft of life, the Truce ests in peace! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-TRUCE!!

Nov 4 2008 Israel broke the truce, therefore Hamas was not the one who broke the truce - when it fired on Israel it was after the truce had been broken. Therefore Israel (and Memri) lie when they say it was Hamas that broke the truce.

Heck, even Mark Regev conceded this point on TV - Memri should have inserted that video into their piece!

Cheers,
Shafique

Well, unfortunately, your facts would be wrong because Hamas did indeed call the truce off - which is what the video correctly states.

Be careful you don't drown when swimming in Ethiopia, Sudan and Egypt - you seem to enjoy being in denial!

Not even a chuckle from my 'it was dead' parody? c'mon - give us a smile!

Anyway, I've bumped the thread 'Gaza Truce - who broke it' to show the evidence that MEMRI was just peddling Israel's disinformation. Facts maam, nothing but the facts.

Cheers,
Shafique

The Palestinian group Hamas declared an end to a ceasefire with Israel, saying that the truce expiring on Friday will not be renewed. The development could lead to a violent new phase in the long conflict between Israel and Palestinian militants.

Moreover, the U.N. suspended food delivery and cash assistance to Gaza on Thursday.

Asaf Shariv, Israel’s consul general in New York, joins Martin Savidge to discuss the political and humanitarian ramifications of the conflict and chances for a new truce.

Below, bloggers write about daily life on the Israeli-Palestinian border.

http://worldfocus.org/blog/2008/12/18/c ... down/3302/

Yawn.

Nov 4th 2008 vs December 2008.

In our world, Israel's breaking the truce took place before Hamas announcment in December when it merely stated there was no ceasefire/truce anymore because of the events of Nov 4th 2008.

Trying to rewrite history won't actually change the timeline or the facts.

You jump up and down if someone says a factual statement such as 'Israel kills Palestinian children' but like to split hairs when Memri and Israel spins the Israeli breaking of the truce as something that Hamas did!



Cheers,
Shafique

Why don't you quote Memri verbatim from that video and show me what Memri said is incorrect ?

As for children, the facts also show that Hamas and other Palestinian terror groups do a better job than Israel at killing children (proportionally speaking) than they do of killing adult males.

Hmm - what's that sound? Could it be a back peddle from eh?

Faced with evidence that it was, after all, Israel that broke the truce in Gaza - we are now asking for a transcription of what Memri says. Hmmm.

Why don't you post it eh - and show us how Memri is not blaming Hamas for breaking the truce?

Or is your argument now - 'Israel did break the truce, but Hamas also stopped the ceasefire in December after Israel broke it'??

Careful you don't drop them straws, young man.

cheers,
Shafique

Yawn.

I 'spose this is your way of not actually quoting Memri to confirm that what they said in the video is factually correct.

We can move on to address other statements Hamas makes in that video - such as supporting military action against Rome, Europe and North and South America and calling for the deaths of Jews (IIRC).

But, until you quote what Memri actually says, as opposed to going by what your imagination tells you, I won't continue this debate.

EH is slapping you around the ears Shafique.

As a lawyer for Hamas, you really need to come up with some more evidence. This case is a losing one.

Hold your horses.

It's really quite simple. Either Israel broke the truce on Nov 4 2008 and it is lying when it says Hamas broke the truce, or Israel is telling the truth when it says Hamas broke the truce.

Evidence shows it is Israel who broke the truce. Once we agree on this fact, we can then examine what Memri says in its video and perhaps even read what Hamas said in December 2008 about renewing the truce which expired on the 19th December (and perhaps ask what else was said in the same interview).

Note that the video itself is a compilation of sound bites from before Israel started bombing Gaza - and it is just a propaganda piece to try and justify why the Gazans deserved to be bombed.

Goldstone, thankfully, wasn't taken in by soundbites from Memri and looked at the evidence and gave his conclusions. Israeli fanbois are still vilifying him.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Hold your horses.

Cheers,
Shafique

Check.