Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk

Hamas big-shot - Rome will be conquered, just like Constantinople

Ah, more Loon comfort food from Memri - this time a 2min Youtube Memri special posted in June 2008.

What's the matter young one - getting a battering in the other threads and now you want to spread the pain?

So, the guy quotes the Holy Prophet, pbuh, saying that Rome will be conquered (.. 'as prophecised by' he says).

Then at 1.50 (and I quote Memri's own translation):

Today we instill these good tidings in their souls, by means of the mosques and the Koran books [sic], and the history of our great Prophet, pbuh, and his companions, and the great leaders, we prepare them for the mission of saving humanity from the hellfire on the brink of which they stand.

Cue - Guru Bob and his minions interpreting this as 'The Mooslims want to kill all Westerners'

Cheers,
Shafique

However, the problem for the Loons is that Hamas has indeed given a complete, comprehensive and clear statements on their stance vis-a-vis the west in general, and about Jews/Judaism as well.

The problem for fanbois at the moment is that they are losing the PR battle - and they don't like it. There's much lashing out etc and barrels are being scraped (I mean, the original post had a video from 2009 in it, now eh digs out an earlier one in an attempt to distract from the threads he's been exposed - eg talking donkeys, the Crusades being both 'not holy wars' and 'generic holy wars' etc)

But here's why Memri feels the need to produce its selective quotes and use the 'guilt by association and innuendo and selective editing' techniques - Hamas makes the point that the issue is not religious, but a struggle against occupation:

dubai-politics-talk/hamas-view-holocaust-t41923.html#p336970

Hamas condemns the Holocaust

We are not engaged in a religious conflict with Jews; this is a political struggle to free ourselves from occupation and oppression

Bassem Naeem
guardian.co.uk, Monday 12 May 2008 14.30 BST


As the Palestinian people prepare to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the Nakba ("catastrophe") - the dispossession and expulsion of most of our people from our land - those remaining in Palestine face escalating aggression, killings, imprisonment, ethnic cleansing and siege. But instead of support and solidarity from the western media, we face frequent attempts to defend the indefensible or turn fire on the Palestinians themselves.

One recent approach, which seems to be part of the wider attempt to isolate the elected Palestinian leadership, is to portray Hamas and the population of the Gaza strip as motivated by anti-Jewish sentiment, rather than a hostility to Zionist occupation and domination of our land. A recent front page article in the International Herald Tribune followed this line, as did an article for Cif about an item broadcast on the al-Aqsa satellite TV channnel about the Nazi Holocaust.

In fact, the al-Aqsa Channel is an independent media institution that often does not express the views of the Palestinian government headed by Ismail Haniyeh or of the Hamas movement. The channel regularly gives Palestinians of different convictions the chance to express views that are not shared by the Palestinian government or the Hamas movement. In the case of the opinion expressed on al-Aqsa TV by Amin Dabbur, it is his alone and he is solely responsible for it.

It is rather surprising to us that so little attention, if any, is given by the western media to what is regularly broadcast or written in the Israeli media by politicians and writers demanding the total uprooting or "transfer" of the Palestinian people from their land.

The Israeli media and pro-Israel western press are full of views that deny or seek to excuse well-established facts of history including the Nakba of 1948 and the massacres perpetrated then by the Haganah, the Irgun and LEHI with the objective of forcing a mass dispossession of the Palestinians.

But it should be made clear that neither Hamas nor the Palestinian government in Gaza denies the Nazi Holocaust. The Holocaust was not only a crime against humanity but one of the most abhorrent crimes in modern history. We condemn it as we condemn every abuse of humanity and all forms of discrimination on the basis of religion, race, gender or nationality.

And at the same time as we unreservedly condemn the crimes perpetrated by the Nazis against the Jews of Europe, we categorically reject the exploitation of the Holocaust by the Zionists to justify their crimes and harness international acceptance of the campaign of ethnic cleansing and subjection they have been waging against us - to the point where in February the Israeli deputy defence minister Matan Vilnai threatened the people of Gaza with a "holocaust".

Within 24 hours, 61 Palestinians - more than half of them civilians and a quarter children - were killed in a series of air raids. Meanwhile, a horrible crime against humanity continues to be perpetrated against the people of Gaza: the two-year-old siege imposed after Hamas won the legislative elections in January 2006, which is causing great suffering. Due to severe shortages of medicines and food, scores of Palestinians have lost their lives.

It cannot be right that Europeans in general and the British in particular maintain a virtual silence toward what the Zionists are doing to the Palestinians, let alone supporting or justifying their oppressive policies, under the pretext of showing sympathy for the victims of the Holocaust.

The Palestinian people aspire to freedom, independence and peaceful coexistence with all their neighbours. There are, today, more than six million Palestinian refugees. No less than 700,000 Palestinians have been detained at least once by the Israeli occupation authorities since 1967. Hundreds of thousands have so far been killed or wounded. Little concern seems to be caused by all of this or by the erection of an apartheid wall that swallows more than 20% of the West Bank land or the heavily armed colonies that devour Palestinian land in a blatant violation of international law.

The plight of our people is not the product of a religious conflict between us and the Jews in Palestine or anywhere else: the aims and positions of today's Hamas have been repeatedly spelled out by its leadership, for example in Hamas's 2006 programme for government. The conflict is of a purely political nature: it is between a people who have come under occupation and an oppressive occupying power.

Our right to resistance against occupation is recognised by all conventions and religious traditions. The Jews are for us the people of a sacred book who suffered persecution in European lands. Whenever they sought refuge, Muslim and Arab lands provided them with safe havens. It was in our midst that they enjoyed peace and prosperity; many of them held leading positions in Muslim countries.

After almost a century of Zionist colonial and racist oppression, some Palestinians find it hard to imagine that some of their oppressors are the sons and daughters of those who were themselves oppressed and massacred.

Palestinians had nothing to do with the Holocaust but find themselves punished for someone else's crime. But we are well aware and warmly welcome the outspoken support for Palestinian rights by Israeli and Jewish human rights activists in Palestine and around the world.

We hope that journalists in the west will begin to adopt a more objective approach when covering events in Palestine. The Palestinian people are being killed by Israel's machine of destruction on a daily basis. Nevertheless, we still see a clear bias in favour of Israel in the western media.

The Europeans bear a direct responsibility for what is befalling the Palestinians today. Britain was the mandate authority that handed over Palestine to Israeli occupation. Nazi Germany perpetrated the most heinous crimes against Jews, forcing the survivors to migrate to Palestine in pursuit of safety. We, therefore, expect the Europeans to atone for their historic crimes by restoring some balance to the inhuman and one-sided international response to the tragedy of our people.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... eholocaust

Hamas MP and Cleric Yunis Al-Astal in a Friday Sermon: We Will Conquer Rome, and from There Continue to Conquer the Two Americas and Eastern Europe

Following are excerpts from an address by Hamas MP and cleric Yunis Al-Astal, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on April 11, 2008.

Yunis Al-Astal: Allah has chosen you for Himself and for His religion, so that you will serve as the engine pulling this nation to the phase of succession, security, and consolidation of power, and even to conquests thorough da'wa and military conquests of the capitals of the entire world. Very soon, Allah willing, Rome will be conquered, just like Constantinople was, as was prophesized by our Prophet Muhammad.

Today, Rome is the capital of the Catholics, or the Crusader capital, which has declared its hostility to Islam, and has planted the brothers of apes and pigs in Palestine in order to prevent the reawakening of Islam, this capital of theirs will be an advanced post for the Islamic conquests, which will spread through Europe in its entirety, and then will turn to the two Americas, and even Eastern Europe.

I believe that our children or our grandchildren will inherit our Jihad and our sacrifices, and Allah willing, the commanders of the conquest will come from among them. Today, we instill these good tidings in their souls, and by means of the mosques and the Koran books, and the history of our Prophets, his companions, and the great leaders, we prepare them for the mission of saving humanity from the hellfire on the brink of which they stand.

Wow, it's amazing how you manage to spin a blatantly imperialist, war-mongering message of hate, filled with anti-Semitic polemic (sons of apes and pigs) into a harmless 'prophecy' of Muslims saving us poor Kaffir from the fires of hell.

Wow. Unbelievable.

So, the guy quotes the Holy Prophet, pbuh, saying that Rome will be conquered (.. 'as prophecised by' he says).

The Hamas cleric is calling for the military conquest of Rome along with every city in the world.

LoL. So what.

'It's just a prophecy and the guy's explicitly talking of fulfilling this violent prophecy, so what ?'

Unbelievable.

Yawn.

Do you see Moooslims with guns everywhere you go, or this only in loonville?

But interesting to see the loon spin:

The guy says the conquests will be through dawa and is explicit about this in the part I quoted and you left out. Sheesh - you're now even being selective with MEMRI specials!!

Now that is desperation!


Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:The guy says the conquests will be through dawa and is explicit about this in the part I quoted and you left out. Sheesh - you're now even being selective with MEMRI specials!!

Actually, he said that the conquests will be through dawa *and* military conquests.

In fact, the context of his entire speech was military conquest.

Allah has chosen you for Himself and for His religion, so that you will serve as the engine pulling this nation to the phase of succession, security, and consolidation of power, and even to conquests thorough da'wa and military conquests of the capitals of the entire world.

Who's selectively quoting speeches out of context, now ?

Oh, and will you condemn the Hamas cleric and politician for his anti-Semitic diatribe ?

Indeed, its time for Shafique to lead in the condemnation effort once more...

I don't care if shafique condemns the statement at all (it's not like his previous comments regarding a mother who wanted her son, who was saved by the Israel, to become a bus bomber aren't fresh in anyone's mind - a condemnation would therefore mean next to nothing, just a PR ploy).

I'm just curious if shafique will even acknowledge that what the Hamas cleric and politician said was actually anti-Semitic.

So no, I'm not looking for a condemnation - as if any thing would change based on what someone writes on a message forum.

I'm just curious if shafique still occasionally visits planet earth.

So am I, EH. So am I.

Of course I condemn any anti-semite who hates all Jews because of their religion or race. Always have, always will.

Of course I will not join in the loon hysteria and agree that anyone criticising Zionists or Israeli injustices as anti-semites.

The guy calls for Dawa, the Memri video has him clarifying the earlier statement and yet eh wishes us to focus on the 'and military conquests' when the emphasis is on preaching.

I agree on military actions against those who use military to oppress, occupy etc. So do most rational people.

BTW - welcome back RobbyG!

Cheers,
Shafique

So, let us come back to the thread's topic - what does Hamas say:

shafique wrote:
dubai-politics-talk/hamas-view-holocaust-t41923.html#p336970

Hamas condemns the Holocaust

We are not engaged in a religious conflict with Jews; this is a political struggle to free ourselves from occupation and oppression

Bassem Naeem
guardian.co.uk, Monday 12 May 2008 14.30 BST


In fact, the al-Aqsa Channel is an independent media institution that often does not express the views of the Palestinian government headed by Ismail Haniyeh or of the Hamas movement. The channel regularly gives Palestinians of different convictions the chance to express views that are not shared by the Palestinian government or the Hamas movement. In the case of the opinion expressed on al-Aqsa TV by Amin Dabbur, it is his alone and he is solely responsible for it.


It is rather surprising to us that so little attention, if any, is given by the western media to what is regularly broadcast or written in the Israeli media by politicians and writers demanding the total uprooting or "transfer" of the Palestinian people from their land.

The Israeli media and pro-Israel western press are full of views that deny or seek to excuse well-established facts of history including the Nakba of 1948 and the massacres perpetrated then by the Haganah, the Irgun and LEHI with the objective of forcing a mass dispossession of the Palestinians.

So, premise No1 - everything on Al Aqsa is 'Hamas' is punked.

But it should be made clear that neither Hamas nor the Palestinian government in Gaza denies the Nazi Holocaust. The Holocaust was not only a crime against humanity but one of the most abhorrent crimes in modern history. We condemn it as we condemn every abuse of humanity and all forms of discrimination on the basis of religion, race, gender or nationality.

And at the same time as we unreservedly condemn the crimes perpetrated by the Nazis against the Jews of Europe, we categorically reject the exploitation of the Holocaust by the Zionists to justify their crimes and harness international acceptance of the campaign of ethnic cleansing and subjection they have been waging against us - to the point where in February the Israeli deputy defence minister Matan Vilnai threatened the people of Gaza with a "holocaust".

Hamas, categorically, don't deny the Holocaust. Loon canard punked.

The plight of our people is not the product of a religious conflict between us and the Jews in Palestine or anywhere else: the aims and positions of today's Hamas have been repeatedly spelled out by its leadership, for example in Hamas's 2006 programme for government. The conflict is of a purely political nature: it is between a people who have come under occupation and an oppressive occupying power.

Our right to resistance against occupation is recognised by all conventions and religious traditions. The Jews are for us the people of a sacred book who suffered persecution in European lands. Whenever they sought refuge, Muslim and Arab lands provided them with safe havens. It was in our midst that they enjoyed peace and prosperity; many of them held leading positions in Muslim countries.

No comment needed. Pretty clear.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... eholocaust

So, do we believe Hamas or the loon spin from Memri and their fanbois?

Cheers,
Shafique

I find it very disturbing that hamas calls axing children a natural reaction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_Ayin_ax_attack

natural...

In conflicts, it makes no difference if what used as arsenal is either knife, ax, bullet, mine, bombs or what have you. They all have one objective…that is to harm or kill “the enemy”… You are using your compassion for wrong reasons..
I child who is killed via a single bullet is no different than a child killed through an ax wound.
The result, always is that you have lost that one beautiful child. (the right to life, the right to live is lost)
Human compassion/conscience should not be used to humiliate one side that is living under misfortunate conditions(in this case under all arms/provisions and freedom embargo) instead such human conscience should be activated to construct peace, eliminate wars/conflicts and settle down differences justly. Unfortunately this is where we fail as conflicts most of the time the natural product of unfair colonialism..

Throughout Israel, Palestinians are being suffocated indeed…

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-s ... -palestine

http://www.benwhite.org.uk/2010/07/12/a ... holy-land/


.

Glad to see that there's no disputing the clear Hamas statements I quoted above.

The statement that the terrorist attack by a non-Hamas person is 'natural' as quoted by JP is disturbing - but is actually describing.a view that these atrocities happen when a people are under occupation and kids are killed by the oppressors.

Had they condoned the axing, that would be a valid criticism, but why let facts get in the way of. a piece of loon spin?

Cheers
Shafique

It is not the only time Hamas calls killing children natural. Even somebody with half a brain cell of human moriality knowns that calling killing children natural or defending it is dehumanizing yourself. Calling killing children is natural is animal like, unless they are Zionist Jew children it seems.

Don’t be childish and foolish please, you wouldn’t expect Israelis to call for natural killing when they are armed with the latest killer guns/machines, patroling army/police vehicles and bulldozers doing the destruction and killing in the name of Israeli Jewish citizens..

A fatalistic viewpoint will finish the process of moral decay that the ideologically inspired 'occupation' had started. I think its wise to remain aware of the harm inflicted upon eachother, when discussing the inequality of technological advances, or simply said: an understanding of the pain inflicted by a bullet or a hatchet, nevermind children...

When one doesn't see the blunt difference anylonger...morality has reached it lower boundary. From that point onwards, only the young minds will be able to end the hatred for there is always new hope in a fresh mind.

Continue the madness fooks.

Of course I will not join in the loon hysteria and agree that anyone criticising Zionists or Israeli injustices as anti-semites.

The Imam wasn't condemning Israeli 'injustices', he referred to Jews as 'apes and pigs'.

The guy calls for Dawa

He mentions dawa in the same sentence he mentions military conquests.

The rest of his speech is about the military conquest of non-Muslim lands.

the Memri video has him clarifying the earlier statement and yet eh wishes us to focus on the 'and military conquests' when the emphasis is on preaching.

Sure it was.

I agree on military actions against those who use military to oppress, occupy etc. So do most rational people.

even to conquests thorough da'wa and military conquests of the capitals of the entire world.

Rome will be conquered, just like Constantinople was

this capital of theirs will be an advanced post for the Islamic conquests


which will spread through Europe in its entirety, and then will turn to the two Americas, and even Eastern Europe

The Imam calls for the military conquests of Europe and the Americas and you spin this as military action against occupiers.

If anyone doubted that you weren't a loon, this post should confirm it.

Wouldn't that be great if we are all one religion eh? At the end of the they, if ever there is a creator, there is only one creator and he has only one he favours as religion. At least this way, all the believers would unite to live in peace and there would be no more religious conquests and threats? What do you think Eh?

Berrin wrote:Wouldn't that be great if we are all one religion eh? At the end of the they, if ever there is a creator, there is only one creator and he has only one he favours as religion. At least this way, all the believers would unite to live in peace and there would be no more religious conquests and threats? What do you think Eh?

Still stuck in the old fundamentalist song aight? Try some enlightenment for a change.

It worked for Christianity, now its Islams turn. Left, right, left and end the 7th century backwardness...

Drop the ideologic weaponry and try free speech for a change.

RobbyG wrote:

Berrin wrote:Wouldn't that be great if we are all one religion eh? At the end of the they, if ever there is a creator, there is only one creator and he has only one he favours as religion. At least this way, all the believers would unite to live in peace and there would be no more religious conquests and threats? What do you think Eh?

Still stuck in the old fundamentalist song aight? Try some enlightenment for a change.

It worked for Christianity, now its Islams turn. Left, right, left and end the 7th century backwardness...

Drop the ideologic weaponry and try free speech for a change.

About time you saw sense and came back!

Ignore the trolls and keep posting.



Knight

Not so sure about that. I think I'll pass by so every once in a while...

Nice to see that the loon tactic of selective quoting is alive and well.

Despite the attempts to obfuscate - the clear and complete statements from Hamas are quite categoric. Compare that against the snippets that the loons focus on (I mean, FD is taking this to the extreme by focusing on one word in a Jerusalem Post article about a terrorist act carried out NOT by Hamas). The reliance on snippets is very telling - and so is the sly association of anything on Al Aqsa TV or Gazan terrorists with Hamas. Guilt by association seems to be the only way the loons can justify their hatred.

I am appalled when any child is killed, and I abhor any justifications for the killing of children. I see no difference between an axe and a bomb, missile, cluster bomb, bullet, bulldozer etc - if they kill a child, they kill a child.



Cheers,
Shafique

http://maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=201538

Children died in this attack.

Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum said that the operation was a natural response to Israeli aggression in the Gaza Strip.

The de facto government in the Gaza Strip said that responsibility for the attack lay squarely with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Defence Minister Ehud Barak. They described the attack as "a natural response to the hostile policies and Israeli terrorism against the Palestinian people in the West Bank and Gaza."

Meanwhile, residents in the Gaza Strip took to the streets, discharging gunfire into the air in apparent celebration of the operation in Jerusalem

There it is again. Killing children is natural according to Hamas.

natural...

FD - that is a masterful display of spin. Doesn't change the fact that Hamas' words are clear (it is a political struggle, they don't deny the Holocaust etc) and that all your arguments seem to rely on a loon reality distortion field that involves, inter alia, inventing stats, fanciful interpretations, guilt by false association and the favourite tactic - selective quotes and misquotes.

And why? Because Israel is losing the PR battle these days.

eh - your rants are getting more extreme. I refer you back to this and challenge you on your statement that 'the rest of the speech was about military conquests' - when it is quite the opposite.
dubai-politics-talk/hamas-their-own-voices-t41997-30.html#p343875

Cheers,
Shafique

You seem to have completely misinterpreted the passage you quoted as well as gloss over the bulk of his message of Islamic conquests (his words, not mine).

The part you chose to quote in your post about instilling 'good tidings in their souls' refers to children of Muslim 'Holy Warriors' who are instilled a knowledge of Islamic supremacy over non-believers:

I believe that our children or our grandchildren will inherit our Jihad and our sacrifices, and Allah willing, the commanders of the conquest will come from among them. Today, we instill these good tidings in their souls, and by means of the mosques and the Koran books, and the history of our Prophets, his companions, and the great leaders, we prepare them for the mission of saving humanity from the hellfire on the brink of which they stand.

For some reason, you still seem to be laboring under the incorrect belief that the Hamas cleric's main point was peaceful conversion of non-Muslims to form a future world theocracy (as if that's ok).

But that isn't surprising, since you have twice taken the speaker's statements out of context or twisted his words, with the paragraph you decided to quote being completely taken out of context (compare the following paragraph to the paragraph posted in full above):

Today we instill these good tidings in their souls, by means of the mosques and the Koran books [sic], and the history of our great Prophet, pbuh, and his companions, and the great leaders, we prepare them for the mission of saving humanity from the hellfire on the brink of which they stand.

So why did you leave out the first part of the paragraph from the Imam's speech, let alone decide on not quoting the entire speech ?

I believe that our children or our grandchildren will inherit our Jihad and our sacrifices, and Allah willing, the commanders of the conquest will come from among them.

Yawn.

Firstly, not everyone on Al Aqsa speaks for Hamas (that was point 1 I referred to when I re-quoted Hamas' full statement), so you need to look beyond the Memri headlines. Guilt by false association, in other words.

Secondly, you're whole argument has been punked - the guy talks about dawa, and then at 1.50 elaborates on this very point. 'Glad tidings' = 'good news'= 'gospel' (Arabic I think is 'bushra') - why do you think that the dawa will be performed on Muslim children who will continue with the struggle for justice??

As I said in the linked post above, your now selectively quoting a Memri special - talk about desperation.

Why not address the fact that the only complete and comprehensive statement by Hamas in this thread debunks your loon versions of mad-eyed Hamas fanatics?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Firstly, not everyone on Al Aqsa speaks for Hamas

Yunis Al Astal is a Hamas preacher, MP and member of the military wing of Hamas.

shafique wrote:why do you think that the dawa will be performed on Muslim children

Huh ?

So the guy is carrying out dawa efforrts amongst Muslim children ?

The mind boggles.

shafique wrote:who will continue with the struggle for justice??

So Islamic militant conquests, such as conquering Rome ('just like Constantinople'), Europe and the Americas and instilling this belief into young children to militarily conquer the world (his words, not mine) is continuing the struggle for justice ?

I have to say, your spin is far from convincing.

But the big question remains, why did you choose to only partially quote the Hamas preacher in the paragraph you quoted and leave out the parts talking about Jihad and militant conquest ?


After all, there is only one way to interpret the paragraph when quoted in full:

I believe that our children or our grandchildren will inherit our Jihad and our sacrifices, and Allah willing, the commanders of the conquest will come from among them. Today, we instill these good tidings in their souls, and by means of the mosques and the Koran books, and the history of our Prophets, his companions, and the great leaders, we prepare them for the mission of saving humanity from the hellfire on the brink of which they stand.

But someone may manage to spin the meaning of the paragraph when it is only partially quoted to simply refer to conversion efforts:

Today we instill these good tidings in their souls, by means of the mosques and the Koran books [sic], and the history of our great Prophet, pbuh, and his companions, and the great leaders, we prepare them for the mission of saving humanity from the hellfire on the brink of which they stand.

Again, here is the speech from the Memri clip provided in full:

Hamas MP and Cleric Yunis Al-Astal in a Friday Sermon: We Will Conquer Rome, and from There Continue to Conquer the Two Americas and Eastern Europe

Following are excerpts from an address by Hamas MP and cleric Yunis Al-Astal, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on April 11, 2008.

Yunis Al-Astal: Allah has chosen you for Himself and for His religion, so that you will serve as the engine pulling this nation to the phase of succession, security, and consolidation of power, and even to conquests thorough da'wa and military conquests of the capitals of the entire world. Very soon, Allah willing, Rome will be conquered, just like Constantinople was, as was prophesized by our Prophet Muhammad.

Today, Rome is the capital of the Catholics, or the Crusader capital, which has declared its hostility to Islam, and has planted the brothers of apes and pigs in Palestine in order to prevent the reawakening of Islam, this capital of theirs will be an advanced post for the Islamic conquests, which will spread through Europe in its entirety, and then will turn to the two Americas, and even Eastern Europe.

I believe that our children or our grandchildren will inherit our Jihad and our sacrifices, and Allah willing, the commanders of the conquest will come from among them. Today, we instill these good tidings in their souls, and by means of the mosques and the Koran books, and the history of our Prophets, his companions, and the great leaders, we prepare them for the mission of saving humanity from the hellfire on the brink of which they stand.

shafique wrote:debunks your loon versions of mad-eyed Hamas fanatics?

Right, I'm sure from the above conspiracy theory of the Vatican planting Jews "apes and pigs" in Palestine to prevent an 'Islamic awakening', calls for militant conquests of the world and a yearning for a future world-wide, Islamic theocracy, it would be unfair to label Yunis Al-Astal as a 'mad-eyed' fanatic.

Geez, what does someone have to do get labeled a Muslim fanatic around here ?

Seriously.

You're ranting again eh. This seems to be a natural loon reaction to Israel losing the PR battle in Gaza and the world no longer believing the loon spin any more. I mean, the whole 'let's demonise Hamas' is so you guys can excuse the Israeli crimes. Unfortunately its not working, the Israeli mantra that 'we're the victims here' just doesn't wash any more.

Let me repeat this calmly for you.

The only complete, comprehensive and clear Hamas statement in this thread is the one I posted in full which categorically states that the struggle is political, they are not anti-Semitic and don't deny the Holocaust.

I fully understand the desire to rush to quote Memri specials and repeat your loon interpretations of snippets - but even there you've failed.

I've asked you repeatedly to address the comprehensive statement from Hamas which was said in English and is complete and categoric. Your response seems to be 'let me ignore what Hamas says and quote Memri'.

I refer you once again to my previous comments about Dawa in this sermon (and I'm still amused you're selectively quoting from a 2 min Memri special - what desperation!)

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:The only complete, comprehensive and clear Hamas statement in this thread is the one I posted in full which categorically states that the struggle is political, they are not anti-Semitic and don't deny the Holocaust.

dubai-politics-talk/edl-views-violence-and-racism-t42611.html

shafique wrote:I refer you once again to my previous comments about Dawa in this sermon (and I'm still amused you're selectively quoting from a 2 min Memri special - what desperation!)

Interesting.

What was the reason for only partially quoting the paragraph you quoted ?

Was it the comments of Jihad and conquests (not to mention the cleric's call for military conquest of world capitals elsewhere) that made it difficult to spin what the cleric said into a call for dawa ?