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Koran 9:111

God has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of God; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon God in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Koran; and who fulfils his covenant truer than God? So rejoice in the bargain you have made with Him; that is the mighty triumph.

The link below has the footage from the show:

Nassur the Teddy Bear: "Dear children, when we grow up, we will become martyrs, God willing. [...]

"Yes, Saraa, the pioneers of tomorrow will liberate the Al-Aqsa Mosque. The children, the pioneers of tomorrow, and not only in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, but all over the world, my dear Saraa and dear children." [...]

"Go ahead, the audience is waiting..."

Caller: "I'm from Holland."

Nassur: "From Holland. Wow!"

Child host Saraa: "Welcome. "

Nassur: "Where in Holland, my dear?"

Saraa: "Greetings to our people in Holland. [...]

"What would you like to sing for us?"

Caller: "When We Become Martyrs."

Nassur: "Go ahead. Come on, cheer her on. Clap your hands."

Saraa: "Come on."

Nassur: "Come on."

Caller (singing): "When we get martyred we will go to Paradise.

"When we get martyred we will go to Paradise.

"No, don’t say we are too small. This life has made us grown-ups.

"Without Palestine our childhood means nothing.

"Without Palestine our childhood means nothing.

"Even if they gave us all the money in the world, it won't make us forget.

"I am willing to sacrifice my blood for my country.

"Without Palestine our childhood means nothing.

"Without Palestine our childhood means nothing."

Saraa: "Thank you very much."

Nassur: "Warm applause."

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4161.htm

eh - I thought my 'troll repellant' spray had been over-effective in the Religion forum!! Nice to see you down here again - even if it is to list some attacks by insurgents. I thought that my reminders of your silence in the 'Bible and Science' etc threads had scared you away. Are you still (STILL) looking up a scientific explanation??

Anyway, back to this thread. [Sigh]

Key word here. MEMRI

Firstly, the clip is of a caller to a programme singing a song. The song is extolling the virtues of fighting and dying for one's country/cause and is a common theme among a number of cultures where those who are killed defending a noble cause (such as liberation from an oppressor, or invader or occupier). So, it is a nationlistic song sung by a caller to a programme.

Could this be another favourite trick of the fanbois - guilt by tenuous association????

Now, back to MEMRI:

The track record for mistranslating Al Aqsa TV broadcasts is not stellar - and nowadays Media outlets double check what Memri produces because of this track record.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Eas ... inaccuracy
(Note particularly the details on how they mistranslated another children's programme)
(Other sections show who actually founded MEMRI and what their agenda is)

Memri is a favourite source for eh (along with Fox News), for the obvious reasons that he needs a source of selective quotes to match up with his quaint interpretation of scripture.

Now, given that Gaza is under an inhuman siege and immoral boycott, and given that the Israelis are imposing this to punish the people for exercising a democratic vote, I would not expect a lot of love towards the oppressors - especially when we've also seen images of Israeli kids laughing and writing on bombs that will kill Palestinians.

Israeli fanbois like to seek to confuse matters by blaming the victims of Israeli agression for being 'less than human' or 'uncivilised'. I guess they think sometimes it works.

Cheers,
Shafique

http://www.factsontheground.co.uk/2007/ ... anslation/

This has the Memri translations and the correct translations (for the notorious Farfur video)

Here's examples of translations Memri gave (with the middle one being accurate translations)

Sanabel: Bedna enqawem.
Sanabel: We are going to resist.
MEMRI: We want to fight.
...
Sanabel: Betokhoona el yahood.
Sanabel: The Jews will shoot us.
MEMRI:We will annihilate the Jews.
(This is the one that all the fuss was about - Memri turns what was said completely on it's head)

But the most cynical is where Memri has the girl saying 'I will shoot' when she actually says 'I will draw a picture'

In the Hamas video clip issued by Memri, a Mickey Mouse lookalike asks a young girl what she will do "for the sake of al-Aqsa". Apparently trying to prompt an answer, the mouse makes a rifle-firing gesture and says "I'll shoot".

The child says: "I'm going to draw a picture."

Memri's translation ignores this remark and instead quotes the child (wrongly) as saying: "I'll shoot."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... cunderfire

Though Memri claims to be "independent" and maintains that it does not "advocate causes or take sides", it is run by Yigal Carmon, a former colonel in Israeli military intelligence. Carmon's partner in setting up Memri was Meyrav Wurmser who in 1996 was one of the authors of the now-infamous "Clean Break" document which proposed reshaping Israel's "strategic environment" in the Middle East, starting with the overthrow of Saddam Hussein.

(And if you read the comments section you'll note that Memri is also guilty of biased editing)

The effect of this is to devalue everything Memri translates - good and bad alike. Responsible news organisations can't rely on anything it says without going back and checking its translations against the original Arabic.

I am aware of people critizising MEMRI's translations. However, I yet have to SEE a clip where the translations are wrong. Time and again translations are proven correct when checking clips, despite all the critizism. Can anybody provide me a link to a clip from MEMRI which they think the translation is wrong, so we can check. Surely, that would we the only way, instead of posting articles about it.

^See the links I gave.

MEMRI took down the Farfur video after this issue was raised. You should ask them to let you see a copy of the video and confirm the word for word translations that are listed.

Eg:
Sanabel: Betokhoona el yahood.
Sanabel: The Jews will shoot us.
MEMRI:We will annihilate the Jews.


And as the Guardian piece reports it - they were challenged on this translation:

Among those misled by Memri's "translation" was Glenn Beck of CNN, who had planned to run it on his radio programme, until his producer told him to stop. Beck informed listeners this was because CNN's Arabic department had found "massive problems" with it.

Instead of broadcasting the tape, Beck then invited Carmon on to the programme and gave him a platform to denounce CNN's Arabic department, and in particular to accuse one of its staff, Octavia Nasr, of being ignorant about the language.

Carmon related a phone conversation he had had with Ms Nasr:

She said the sentence where it says [in Memri's translation] "We are going to ... we will annihilate the Jews", she said: "Well, our translators hear something else. They hear 'The Jews are shooting at us'."

I said to her: "You know, Octavia, the order of the words as you put it is upside down. You can't even get the order of the words right. Even someone who doesn't know Arabic would listen to the tape and would hear the word 'Jews' is at the end, and also it means it is something to be done to the Jews, not by the Jews."

And she insisted, no the word is in the beginning. I said: "Octavia, you just don't get it. It is at the end" ... She didn't know one from two, I mean.

So, Carmon criticised an Arab translator rather than admit they had mistranslated.

But, if MEMRI were right all along - why have they pulled the video?

Cheers,
Shafique

You cannot provide just a link. Its not that difficult. Translations from online memri clips are apparently correct. If you claim different, provide us one clip of hundreds.

Let's try to keep in mind that this is a *children's show*.

Caller (singing): "When we get martyred we will go to Paradise.

"When we get martyred we will go to Paradise.

"No, don’t say we are too small. This life has made us grown-ups.

"Without Palestine our childhood means nothing.

"Without Palestine our childhood means nothing.

"Even if they gave us all the money in the world, it won't make us forget.

"I am willing to sacrifice my blood for my country.

"Without Palestine our childhood means nothing.

"Without Palestine our childhood means nothing."

Saraa: "Thank you very much."

Nassur: "Warm applause."

shafique wrote:eh - I thought my 'troll repellant' spray had been over-effective in the Religion forum!! Nice to see you down here again - even if it is to list some attacks by insurgents. I thought that my reminders of your silence in the 'Bible and Science' etc threads had scared you away. Are you still (STILL) looking up a scientific explanation??

No, you're just too retarded to hold a discussion with.

Yes, it is a Memri translation of a song sung by a caller to the programme.

Compare and contrast with the title of the thread.

Let me just go and look up what the word 'retarded' means in my dictionary...

Cheers,
Shafique

Nassur the Teddy Bear: "Dear children, when we grow up, we will become martyrs, God willing. [...]

"Yes, Saraa, the pioneers of tomorrow will liberate the Al-Aqsa Mosque. The children, the pioneers of tomorrow, and not only in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, but all over the world, my dear Saraa and dear children." [...]

The thread title seems accurate enough to me.

So the teddy bear is saying to the children living under occupation/siege that when they grow up they will go and liberate their occupied territory - fair point eh, the title is accurate 'but just misses out the words 'when they grow up')

And that is IF Memri's translation is accurate. Did you confirm that it is? (I haven't)

Cheers,
Shafique

I'll let you do that.

Chicken.

Nice children's show.

Caller (singing): "When we get martyred we will go to Paradise.

"When we get martyred we will go to Paradise.

"No, don’t say we are too small. This life has made us grown-ups.

"Without Palestine our childhood means nothing.

"Without Palestine our childhood means nothing.

"Even if they gave us all the money in the world, it won't make us forget.

"I am willing to sacrifice my blood for my country.

"Without Palestine our childhood means nothing.

"Without Palestine our childhood means nothing."

Saraa: "Thank you very much."

Nassur: "Warm applause."

Where do you think grown ups who killed defending their homelands or liberating their lands go to then eh?

Do they all go to hell?

Cheers,
Shafique

Well, apparently we can find the answer on a *children's* television show.

I also liked the following line that was sung by the child from Holland:

"Without Palestine our childhood means nothing.

So, evading the question and asking another question about a song lyric.

Ok - so, I'll assume that you DON'T think that adults who die defending their countries necessarily all go to hell, but that it is not beyond the realm of possibility that people may believe they go to heaven.

'without Palestine our childhood means nothing'

Sounds like a yearning for a national homeland free from occupation. A plea from the heart that a free land is precious and if they don't achieve this in their lifetimes then it will be another life wasted in respect of this goal.

Feels like an English Lit homework question - will you be asking me to do your French homework next?

Cheers,
Shafique

Oh yeah. I'm sure three and four year olds are really concerned with becoming martyrs.

Or, as you put it, 'yearning for a national homeland'.

I bet they must also fall asleep thinking to themselves every night what a waste their childhood will be if they don't spill their blood in war.

Yeah, sure.

Why let facts get in the way of a good prejudice eh, eh?

Let me know if you have other nursery rhymes you want me to decipher? Next you'll be telling me that all English people are demonic for celebrating the arrest, torture and execution of a Catholic Terrorist each year on Nov 5th when we burn effigies of him!

You're comparing the militant indoctrination of children to a holiday far removed from what you're claiming that people are supposedly celebrating?

Wow, you really are grasping at straws.

Oh yeah. I'm sure three and four year olds are really concerned with becoming martyrs.

Eh don't you warm your legs before you dive into ice water? If you don't you know you'll get paralysed.

event horizon wrote:You're comparing the militant indoctrination of children to a holiday far removed from what you're claiming that people are supposedly celebrating?

You're the one taking Memri's word as gospel and analysing the words of song sung by a kid calling in to a tv show.

The kids collecting money for Guy Fawkes are indeed celebrating the capture of a terrorist - and they are taught about it in school. Remember, remember the 5th of November! The fact that he was a Catholic terrorist who was hung, drawn and quartered - i.e. maliciously tortured, is also a gruesome fact retold in schools.

What's the matter eh - you're not going to lecture us about how Brit kids have been affected by centuries of these celebrations?

Cheers,
Shafique

Still grasping at straws?

(btw, since when do you consider quartering torture?)

I consider being hanged, drawn and being quartered to be torture - but I guess you weren't taught about this gruesome torture in school. It was done to inflict pain and done to entertain the public who watched and cheered.

Did you not see Braveheart? Do you remember the bit 'Freeeeedom' at the end? Would you not call that torture??
(it also entails having your belly cut open and your guts extracted in front of you, having your privates cut off too - and having these burnt in front of you - before being dismembered - how is this NOT torture?)

Edit - it appears that whilst Fawkes was tortured and was sentenced to be drawn and quartered, he cheated the executioner:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_dr ... _quartered

Cheers,
Shafique

Oh, I used to work quite close to this pub in the City of London (it's close to the Tower of London) - the name is 'Hung, Drawn and Quartered', and this sign with Pepys quote is still there:

Shafique is in the defense mode again. Can't believe how you try and talk this right Shaffy. Notwithstanding an error in the translation, it is clear this program is indoctrinating and sick to begin with.

It disturbes me that a child calling in from the Netherlands is singing songs that are not normal in European values. Damn indoctrination. I hope the intelligence agencies are following this one and keep an eye on this childs family.

Can't believe we can receive this biased channel from Hamas here in Holland. Must be satellite.

Mea culpa

Notwithstanding an error in the translation, it is clear this program is indoctrinating and sick to begin with.

naww naww naww Robby boy..
"We now have a clue about loooong standing Europen values.."

Your argument, not mine.

You were the one who defined torture as a procedure to extract information from someone. Such as slapping a suspect during interrogation.

I agree with Amnesty International that lashings are torture, let alone crucifixion.

You were the one who defined torture as a procedure to extract information from someone. Such as slapping a suspect during interrogation.

LoL, were you living on the moon when they broadcasted guantanamo/Abu ghraib tortures EH.
We were indeed privileged to witness the revolutionary american rights and values at their best display.

event horizon wrote:(btw, since when do you consider quartering torture?)

Sorry, what's that I hear? Could it be the sound of a furious back-peddle by our young American Bible thumper?
Nah - it's my fault for calling torture, torture.

But seriously eh - what's your point now, do you agree that English kids celebrating a Catholic Terrorist who was hung, drawn and quartered is ok - but that Palestinian kids singing a song about liberating their homeland is 'indoctrination'?

Or it is only indoctrination when Memri tells you it is?

Cheers,
Shafique