Gay-bashers Thrive In Modern-day Netherlands

Topic locked
  • Reply
Gay-bashers thrive in modern-day Netherlands Oct 10, 2010
No doubt this article will be met with deflection and interference by the usual suspects.

For the non-Muslim readers, keep in mind what the Muslim and Leftist reaction would be to an article about 'Islam-bashers thriving in a major Western city'.

Of course such an article would be accompanied with the usual shrieks of 'Islamophobia' and paranoid, crack-pot theories that this is the result of the big corporations, Robert Spencer and the Zionist lobby egging on the ignorant 'hill-billy' masses to attack 'Moozlims'.

Calls for tolerance will be issued and the victims merchants would gladly cling to the story as 'proof' that Muslims are the new Jews of Europe. Leftist, bottom feeding rags, such as Loonwatch.com, would have a field day.

Their world view would finally be proven by demonstrable acts of bigotry! Now we, the bigoted, unenlightened, White, Christian population of the West, only need to consult the new age prophets to discover the cure for Islamophobia. The West can start off by apologizing to Muslims for the Crusades and colonization and acknowledge that Muslims discovered every field of science while Europeans were still living in caves.

But alas, unfortunately the victims are not 'Moozlims'. They are only gays and the article cuts short any self imposed liberal hand-wringing of Christian 'intolerance' by informing us that most of the attackers are young immigrants (presumably from Muslim families).

Any type of reflection over why immigrants and offspring of immigrants from Muslim majority countries harbor strong feelings of homophobia will be dismissed as crude 'racism'. Nope, you won't see liberals lecturing Muslims on tolerance. No sirree bob. Criticism of Muslim communities for violent homophobia is 'racism', 'ethnocentrism' and just down right bigotry, dontchya know?

This is the new dawn of far Left double think. (See previous story of Pal-Arab rape and se.xual assaults on female peace activists in Palestine and the Left cover up)

We can't have 'neutral space' of free inquiry, now can we?

If you think Amsterdam is the gay capital of Europe, you’re half-right, but 10 years out of date. Today it’s the gay-bashing capital of Europe.

Because Amsterdam isn’t just gay. Now it’s Muslim, too. A million Moroccans and Turks have immigrated to the Netherlands, and sharia law rules the streets.

If you doubt it, then you haven’t been paying attention. Actually, that’s not fair. Gay-bashing is front-page news only when it’s committed by a straight, white male.

The media is terribly uncomfortable writing about gay-bashing by minorities
. It’s the same reason why Canadian feminists are so eerily quiet about honour killings of Muslim girls.

According to an “offender study” by the University of Amsterdam, there were 201 reports of anti-gay violence in that city in 2007 — and researchers believe for every reported case there are as many as 25 unreported ones. Two thirds of the predators are Muslim youths.

The violence couldn’t be more brazen. It’s not in the back alleys in the dark, it’s in the heart of the city, often in broad daylight. It’s a direct dare to the Dutch government to show who rules the streets.

In 2008, 10 Muslim youths broke into a fashion show, dragged gay model Michael du Pree off the stage and beat him bloody. Last month, several lesbians were hit by beer bottles thrown at their heads as they marched in a parade of thousands to protest violence against gays. There’s a gay community centre in Amsterdam — you’d think that would be safe. Wrong. It’s a target, with home-invasion style beatings. No one is immune. Last year Hugo Braakhuis, the founder of Amdsterdam’s gay pride parade, was attacked.

In 2005, Chris Crain, former editor of America’s leading gay magazine, Washington Blade, was swarmed by seven Moroccan youths. “I was really surprised,” Crain told reporters at the time. “I felt comfortable because it is San Francisco times 10.” Or it used to be.

This didn’t happen all at once. Ten years ago Pim Fortuyn rang the alarm. “I don’t hate Islam,” he said. “I consider it a backward culture.”

He wanted to halt Muslim immigration, at least until those in the country accepted Holland’s liberal values, such as its acceptance of him as an openly gay political leader. “How wonderful that that’s possible. And I’d like to keep it that way.”

Fortuyn was a Marxist professor, a champion of gay rights, women’s rights, liberal drug laws and euthanasia. Yet, because he opposed Muslim immigration, the CBC called him “right wing.”

Fortuyn was assassinated in 2002 by a leftist radical opposed to his views on Islam.

Next came Theo van Gogh, a descendant of artist Vincent van Gogh. He made a movie about Islam’s treatment of women, called Submission.

A 26-year-old Dutch-Moroccan named Mohammed Bouyeri shot him eight times and tried to cut his head off. Then Bouyeri stabbed a knife into van Gogh’s chest with a letter threatening Western governments, Jews, and van Gogh’s collaborator, a liberal Muslim named Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Hirsi Ali was placed under police protection, until a judge ordered her out of her safe house. She now lives in the United States. Fortuyn, van Gogh and Hirsi Ali are gone from Holland, but the Moroccans and Turks aren’t.

Now comes Geert Wilders. Wilders is the leader of the Party for Freedom, the third-most popular party in Holland. The party joined the new government coalition in return for immigration cuts and a ban on burkas, the face-covering shrouds worn by some Muslim women.

His ideas are mainstream enough to become government policy. But this week, Wilders stood trial for “hate crimes” for those very same ideas.

Prosecutors say it’s a crime to compare the Qur’an to Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf, as Wilders has done, and that he has caused too much of the human emotion called hate.

Mohamed Rabbae supports the prosecution. He’s the chairman of the National Moroccan Council. He wants a judge to order Wilders to apologize. “We are for correcting him,” he said.

Rabbae is for a coerced apology and forced political re-education. And the Associated Press calls Rabbae a moderate.

These days, in Holland, unfortunately that’s true.


http://www.torontosun.com/comment/colum ... 30946.html

With moderates like Muhamed Rabbae, who needs extremists?

event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers Thrive In Modern-day Netherlands Oct 10, 2010
Usual post from the usual resident arsehole.
Bora Bora
Dubai OverLord
User avatar
Posts: 8411
Location: At the moment Dubai Forums

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers Thrive In Modern-day Netherlands Oct 11, 2010
Maybe its you who's trying to deflect some attention from this by your usual moronic posts

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11507253

or maybe something even closer to home

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/10/1 ... rture.html

FAIL ( as usual ofcourse ) Next
desertdudeshj
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 6258

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers thrive in modern-day Netherlands Oct 11, 2010
Another great what-aboutery argument.
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers Thrive In Modern-day Netherlands Oct 11, 2010
Really how many times did the riot police had to be called out or how many people badly injured and buildings set on fire in one day from one riot by your so called anti gay menace, or maybe your just upset you can't visit your boyfriend in Amsterdam anymore ? ;)
desertdudeshj
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 6258

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers thrive in modern-day Netherlands Oct 11, 2010
You can call it moronic or call the OP an arssehole. Fact is you wont see articles like this in the main stream Ducht press anymore...
Flying Dutchman
Dubai Forums Zealot
Posts: 3792
Location: Dubai

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers Thrive In Modern-day Netherlands Oct 11, 2010
Most probally because they are full of shyte rather than anything else
desertdudeshj
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 6258

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers Thrive In Modern-day Netherlands Oct 12, 2010
desertdudeshj wrote:Most probally because they are full of shyte rather than anything else


And what was shyte about the article? I disagree with the statement that sharia rules thes streets of Amsterdam. The incidents are real though. What is also real is that the recent rise of homophobia and violence against gays in Amsterdam is mainly due to Moroccan youth. In the media they also show their intense homophobic attitudes.
Flying Dutchman
Dubai Forums Zealot
Posts: 3792
Location: Dubai

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers thrive in modern-day Netherlands Oct 12, 2010
Serbia a few days ago:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11507253

The loon silence is deafening. Loonarticles from tabloids carry as much credibility as the invented stats we saw quoted about Dutch kids in Amsterdam and crimes. This stat was shown to be totally false, for example:
More in depth studies show for example that 70% of Moroccans living in Amsterdam are criminals.

dubai-politics-talk/decoy-jews-dutch-land-t42381-15.html#p341018
;)


But Bora's reply nailed the subject beautifully.

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers thrive in modern-day Netherlands Oct 12, 2010
The article is based on a study done by the University of Amsterdam.

http://home.medewerker.uva.nl/l.j.buijs/bestanden/Eindverslag%20-%20English%20Summary.pdf

The problem is certianly there and shouldn't be ignored and certainly doesn't warrent the fool language used by other posters and defelctions.

Recent years have witnessed persistent news coverage of incidents of anti-gay violence. Amsterdam in particular is often said to be a place where dangers for homosexuals are on the increase. Anti-gay violence plays an important part in the public debate on both Amsterdam as ‘gay capital’ and the multicultural society as migrants (and Muslims in particular) are feared to insufficiently recognise Dutch values of tolerance towards homosexuals, and to be responsible for a large part of anti-gay violence. For this research, detailed data about the nature and extent of this problem and the perpetrators of anti-gay violence have been gathered.

We do see an increase of the number of police registrations of anti-gay violence between 2006 and 2008.

Moroccans are overrepresented as suspects of physical anti-gay violence.


trying to look for a cause:

Perpetrators of anti-gay violence are not inspired by religious beliefs. Those perpetrators who are Muslims have only a superficial knowledge of the Koran and rarely go to mosque. The motives of the Moroccan perpetrators are almost the same as those of the indigenous Dutch perpetrators. Views and emotions regarding sex and gender play a decisive part, albeit that Moroccan boys list anal sex and the visibility of homosexuality as the most reprehensible aspects of homosexuality, and not feminine behaviour. Their overrepresentation is due to the street culture in which many Moroccan boys live.


It does have some validity in it. Anti-gay violence is something you will rarely see from Turkish Muslims. I think during the decades a large portion of Turks became valuable members of society and have earned respect by hard work. Maghrebi's and the other hand...there is something definitely wrong with them! And what is it with Moroccon youth and their man-bags? Anybody who has recently been in Amsterdam noticed their man-bags? Man-bags are so gay. Islam does have some influence IMO on their hatred against gays and jews though. A hatred fed with the baby spoon. And since the Quran is mentioned, perhaps somebody can point me to where allah loves the gay? I always thought homosexuality is a crime against allah in Islam?
Flying Dutchman
Dubai Forums Zealot
Posts: 3792
Location: Dubai

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers Thrive In Modern-day Netherlands Oct 12, 2010
FD - if there is an issue with the Dutch Morrocan kids (and there does seem to be an issue with education, unemployment and general criminality) then it is indeed valid to look into what the causes are. If the anti-gay violence does not stem from religious beliefs and stem from the same prejudices found in other Dutch citizens (as the article you quote says) - then the issue is a wider one.

As I said, gay-bashing is not uknown in Europe and was only decriminalised a few decades ago.

As for whether God loves homo-se.xuals - the act is a crime/sin in the Bible and the Quran. It is not a 'crime against Allah' (not sure what you mean by that) - but it is a crime in the same way adultery is a crime and is a crime in the way that it was forbidden in Europe for centuries. (Edit, and let's not forget how recently the laws were repealed in the USA - some as late as 2003!)

So, you quote an article which states that religious beliefs aren't an inspiration - but then say 'Islam does have some influence IMO on their hatred against gays and jews though'.

I suspect that your beliefs about Islam are coming through in that statement.

Do you attribute the Serbian attacks against gays to the Orthodox Church's opposition to Gays?

But to answer your question pertaining to Islam (and Christianity), I refer you to the threads in the religion forum which address God's attributes and the conclusion of Biblical scholars that the God of Jesus and Muhammad are one and the same (and therefore share the same attributes - that of loving everyone, whilst still telling us what actions are sins and forbidden to believers. The Bible and Quran have exactly the same teachings in regards to sodomy.)

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers Thrive In Modern-day Netherlands Oct 12, 2010
Wow, I didn't read eh's opening rant (but had clicked on the link and read the article) until now.

Boy - he has some anger issues. It was almost funny. Bora's comments are indeed spot on (I thought she was referring to the article - where it also applies).

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers Thrive In Modern-day Netherlands Oct 12, 2010
shafique wrote:FD - if there is an issue with the Dutch Morrocan kids (and there does seem to be an issue with education, unemployment and general criminality) then it is indeed valid to look into what the causes are. If the anti-gay violence does not stem from religious beliefs and stem from the same prejudices found in other Dutch citizens (as the article you quote says) - then the issue is a wider one.


Moroccans are by far over-represented. For sure in the Dutch bible belt very strong anti gay feeling are present. Difference is, I never heard of them resorting to violence.

As for Islam being part of the problem, as mentioned in the article van Gogh was killed by a Moroccan with some Quranic verses pinned on his chest. Hirsi Ali had to leave after numerous death threats with a religous background etc etc. All this is motivated by religion.
Flying Dutchman
Dubai Forums Zealot
Posts: 3792
Location: Dubai

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers Thrive In Modern-day Netherlands Oct 12, 2010
And the Serbs, are they motivated by Orthodox Christianity?

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers Thrive In Modern-day Netherlands Oct 12, 2010
On the 'over represented' point - this has also been discussed:

shafique wrote:...

As for the study showing 54%, :

Some 54% of Dutch Moroccan youths have come into contact with the police, compared with 23% of young men in general, according to research published in a criminology magazine.

Just 5% of girls have been quizzed about a crime, but 13% of girls with a Moroccan background have been questioned, the researchers say.

The researchers say it is not clear why Moroccan Dutch youth should be so over-represented in the figures, but say their low social economic status and cultural aspects could play a role.

They also point to Belgian research which indicates police are more likely to question immigrant youths than white natives.

The researchers do not say how many of the youths questioned by police are actually convicted of a crime.


http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2 ... r_repr.php

So, this 54% is people stopped by police and not criminals, and may actually reflect bias by the police. Tut tut tut - FD, what did I tell you about loon exageration?

This comment to the article is interesting:
Is this a reflection of the criminality of Dutch Moroccan youth, or the prejudice of the police (and society)? I would think the latter.

The following extract from the Financial Times Deutchland is interesting;
"The sad reality is: the liberal multicultural Netherlands, in which everyone can live how -- and smoke what -- they want, is largely a foreign myth. The economic crisis has only strengthened and made visible the actually conservative and at times narrow-minded tendencies in the society."


It appears that not all Dutch people share your views of the Moroccans FD - and is rather pointing the finger at the prejudice that you have demonstrated in this thread.


Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers Thrive In Modern-day Netherlands Oct 12, 2010
And to put things in perspective - the number of incidents was also referred to in the same thread:


shafique wrote:..

Also, a justice minister had this to say:
The number of instances of reported anti-Semitism in Amsterdam rose in 2009 from the previous year, according to government data, from 17 to 41. Discrimination cases on the basis of skin color or country of origin rose from 232 to 336 in the same period, while anti-gay cases rose to 89 from 55.

But those rises may reflect a public campaign encouraging people to report hate crimes. Hirsch Ballin told parliament Thursday police had seen no real increase in anti-Semitism.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100625/ap_on_re_eu/eu_netherlands_decoy_jews/print;_ylt=AkZZmwSXMVTthqDjpuhrLZtbbBAF;_ylu=X3oDMTBycjdqNWs0BHBvcwMxNQRzZWMDYm90dG9tBHNsawNwcmludA


Many more racist attacks than anti-Gay or even anti-semitic.

Sigh.

So, so much to 'thriving' !!

But FD - what do you think the reasons for the real Serb attacks against Gays? Is it down to Orthodox Christianity - or do those Serbs just hate gays generally?

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers thrive in modern-day Netherlands Oct 12, 2010
shafique wrote:Serbia a few days ago:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11507253

The loon silence is deafening. Loonarticles from tabloids carry as much credibility as the invented stats we saw quoted about Dutch kids in Amsterdam and crimes. This stat was shown to be totally false, for example:
More in depth studies show for example that 70% of Moroccans living in Amsterdam are criminals.

dubai-politics-talk/decoy-jews-dutch-land-t42381-15.html#p341018
;)


But Bora's reply nailed the subject beautifully.

Cheers,
Shafique


Muslim immigrants have much in common with skin-heads.

Good point.

(and perhaps you've forgotten the same type of anti-gay counter protests in Bosnia around two years ago)
Homophobic hooligans crash Bosnia’s first ever gay festival

SARAJEVO -- Dozens of homophobic hooligans attacked participants of Bosnia’s first-ever gay rights festival in Sarajevo on Wednesday, leaving at least eight people injured, said police.

The scuffle broke out at the end of the opening ceremony of the four-day festival in front of the Academy of Fine Arts in downtown Sarajevo.

“When I was getting out of the academy, I was suddenly struck in the back,” Pedja Kojovic, a local journalist, told AFP. “Three other people then came running and beat me up.”

Emir Imamovic, a journalist who tried to help Kojovic, was severely beaten, police said. Another journalist was also injured.

A heavy police deployment prevented more violence from spoiling the event, with a security cordon keeping protesters shouting “kill the gays” and “Allahu Akbar” (a Muslim expression meaning God is Great) at bay.

A police officer on the scene said groups of anti-gay protesters had spread to nearby streets and were attacking people. A police officer was struck in the head during the clashes.

About 50 people participated in the opening day of the festival, which had already prompted fears of violence, with homophobia overriding usual divisions among the country’s wartime foes — Muslims, Serbs and Croats.

The country’s Muslim majority is particularly upset about the festival because it opened during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

Many, including members of various ethnic political parties, have declared homosexuality an illness and labelled the behavior deviant.

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/art/2008/09 ... ligans.htm
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers Thrive In Modern-day Netherlands Oct 13, 2010
Ah, what's that sound... could it be the bottom of the barrel being scraped?

So, Serbs attack gays over the weekend. Loon digs out article from 2 years ago about Bosnia.

All together now, what do we call this .... 'what about-ery'!!

I guess this is the only response to the statistics that in 2009 there were less than 90 anti-Gay attacks in Amsterdam compared to over 300 racist attacks. So much for the loon spin about 'gay bashers thriving' !!

LOL.

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers Thrive In Modern-day Netherlands Oct 13, 2010
shafique wrote:...

But FD - what do you think the reasons for the real Serb attacks against Gays? Is it down to Orthodox Christianity - or do those Serbs just hate gays generally?

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers Thrive In Modern-day Netherlands Oct 13, 2010
shafique wrote:Ah, what's that sound... could it be the bottom of the barrel being scraped?

So, Serbs attack gays over the weekend. Loon digs out article from 2 years ago about Bosnia.

All together now, what do we call this .... 'what about-ery'!!

I guess this is the only response to the statistics that in 2009 there were less than 90 anti-Gay attacks in Amsterdam compared to over 300 racist attacks. So much for the loon spin about 'gay bashers thriving' !!

LOL.

Cheers,
Shafique


And yet the Dutch police dress up as 'gays' (whatever that means) and Orthodox Jews in the Netherlands.

You should go to Amsterdam and tell the police that they're doing their jobs wrong.
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers Thrive In Modern-day Netherlands Oct 13, 2010
Ah, loon logic strikes again - but the stats speak for themselves.

If you review the previous thread, you'll see that the Dutch are closing down prisons because crime rates are going down - but you wouldn't get that impression if you believe loon sensationalist reports!

Why let facts get in the way of prejudice, eh?

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Gay-bashers thrive in modern-day Netherlands Oct 20, 2010
Unfortunately this story isnot a stand alone. More and more stories about intimidation in asylum centres are getting out.

http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/netherlands-promised-land-homosexual-refugees

Arrests, torture and death threats. An all too familiar story for many refugees who flee their countries because they are homosexual. Those that come to the Netherlands hope to find peace and a residence permit here. But their problems simply start all over again in the country's asylum centres, says 24-year-old Palestinian Aboutabdullah.

When a neighbour told Aboutabdullah's family he was gay, they locked him up. He managed to flee the house, only to be caught by his brother and uncle. They shot him in the legs. For Aboutabdullah, the time to leave his homeland Jordan had come.

So he headed for the gay-friendly Netherlands, which he had heard so much about on the internet. While he waited for a refugee residence permit, Aboutabdullah was placed in a asylum seekers' centre in the southern city of Eindhoven. But here his torment just started all over again:

"They put me in a room with two or three straight guys [...] they all talk about girls and they all take marijuana sometimes. And when they knew I was gay they might try to have something [i.e. sex, ed.] with me and they might use bad word [...] Because in their religion I am shit, you know."

Bullying
Aboutabdullah became a target for teasing and bullying by Muslim asylum seekers, and things soon went from bad to worse. A Somali man gave him a black eye. Another man threatened him with a knife in the bathroom. They were not even afraid of the guards:

"I was talking to a security guy; normal talk about the Netherlands and so on, and we were laughing. Then a Somali guy - this was during Ramadan - he said in Arabic: Hey gay, we're going to kill you. The security guy understood a bit of Arabic and he said: If you don't like gays, get out of the Netherlands. I'm also gay and if you don't like it, it's your problem. You have to respect us."


Aboutabdullah is more than welcome in Holland!
Flying Dutchman
Dubai Forums Zealot
Posts: 3792
Location: Dubai

posting in Dubai Politics TalkForum Rules

Return to Dubai Politics Talk