Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk

Herve - you also haven't commented on the Europol report which says your perception is wrong. Did you read it?

When you do, please explain whether you agree that the official stats do therefore support this view:

Perception is not reality. Due to the right wing’s influence and propaganda, people mistakenly think that Islamic terrorism is the greatest threat to the Western world. It is even a commonly held belief that Islamic terrorism poses an existential threat–that the very survival of the Western world is at stake. Of course, the reality is that there are other groups that engage in terrorism on a much larger scale, yet these terrorist incidents are minimized. Acts of terrorism committed by Muslims are purposefully sensationalized and focused upon, culminating in the idea that “(nearly) all terrorists are Muslims.”

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote: Herve, still waiting for your explanation. 51 or 54? Either way - please give us the reference so we can check.
If you are using stats (numbers) please explain on what basis you are comparing Imams expelled in France with Christian priests in general (and presumably Catholic paedophile priests). Are you saying there are fewer than 51 Paedophile priests or what?
In 2010 France expelled about 1000 Roma people - so I guess you'd be very embarrassed to give us to total number of people France expelled and compare that with the numbers expelled for being extremist preachers. But I'm curious - what is the percentage?
(You still haven't given us a good explanation how you can list terrorist acts in the USA in 2010 and leave out a pipe bomb that exploded in Florida and include a bomb that didn't explode in NY)
Cheers,
Shafique

It is unbeleivable how you twist around facts:
it is 54, wikileaks, there cannot be more reliable source than a secret diplomatic cable
http://wikileaks.ch/cable/2006/11/06PARIS7579.html
There is a big difference between peadophile priests (ses crimes) and Imams who profess hate and mass killing (terrorism) I dont know a single case , ever, of a priest peadophile who professed mass killings.
There is a big difference between roma and rather peacefull people and Imams who profess hate and mass killing (terrorism)
There is a big difference between a pipe bomb that only blackened a door, and a car laden with explosives who could have killed dozens of people.
And again with your OP report, it is not that people mistakenly think that Islamic terrorism is the greatest threat to the Western world , it is official and real conversations between dilpomats and expert in counter terrorism, did not you read the secret cable, again, French UK, and US authorities say in this cable that the biggest terrorist threat is from Islamist
http://wikileaks.ch/cable/2006/11/06PARIS7579.html

Herve, please explain the discrepancy between your 54 from a few years ago, with France 24's report from January 2010:

The Egyptian national was the 29th imam or Islamic preacher to have been deported from France since 2001, according to the interior ministry.

http://www.france24.com/en/20100112-rad ... s-france24

29 vs 54.. hmm. (And worth reading the France24 piece to see who France is deporting ..)


But the question still remains, how many in total were deported by France over the same period that the '54' were deported? There are at least 1000 that were deported in 2010 (Roma people).

Simple question.

Another simple question:

But, my specific question was whether you agree with me that Baruch Goldstein misused his religion to justify killing innocent worshippers and whether you similarly blame Judaism for this act, like you blame Islam for acts carried out by Muslim terrorists?

It is a simple question.

So, do you blame Judaism for Baruch Goldstein's act - or do you agree with me that he misused his religion, the way Muslim terrorists misuse their religions when they seek to emulate Goldstein's successful terrorist act?

(When you answer these 2, we can come back and examine why you ignored the pipe bomb attack against the mosque in Florida in May this year)

Cheers,
Shafique

herve wrote: And again with your OP report, it is not that people mistakenly think that Islamic terrorism is the greatest threat to the Western world , it is official and real conversations between dilpomats and expert in counter terrorism, did not you read the secret cable, again, French UK, and US authorities say in this cable that the biggest terrorist threat is from Islamist

I just looked at the dates of those documents...They date back 2006s.. those were the years when Bush and Blair with the support of Nato(i.eFrance) was intensely liberating “hearts and minds” of the muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan...there was no need to liberate the rest of ME then, except Iran as others have already been politically colonised(and we already know how hard they try to knock out the last fortress left)..Under such circumstances herve What can be better excuse to generate fear of radical/growing/spreading islam and find elements to support such notion i.e fabricated reports/documents, rising number of terrorist muslims attacks bombing Europe and America days and nights out..

Some bombers could indeed be independant ignorant muslim nationals but then again it wouldn’t take secret services too long to find heart broken/westerner hating muslims such as impoverished palestinians to be manipulated, emotionally expoited to become suicide bombers on non-muslim lands....all could be in an effort to help western political agenda to succeed..
In a nutshell, I feel Western propaganda against islam and muslim are not all-naive...And now that they managed to score, I truely am a LIBERATED muslim...don’t you love it?...rising death tolls in war torn countries help me even more...

Still the further Europe and America looses strenght at home (politically and economically) the more anti-muslim/islam sentiments will be pumped in public through clandestine operations such as giving rise to national anti-islam/imigrant parties exploiting public emotions for their way into parlements, then as such parties find strength in parlements what we’ll probably see is a new generation of crusades against stronger and developed ME or what have you...
I can write a good senario if you wish and history would prove me right..the truth behind it all is that it is so natural for every nation to keep their traditional national identity/well being secure as it is, from external influence, threats, invations or conquer..And that is all what we are witnessing as the global east is closing the gap with the west rather fast..

Islamophobes refuse to accept the reality that Muslims condemn and work against the minority of Muslims who resort to terrorism.

Why do Muslims refuse to accept that support for terrorism and extremism is widespread in the Muslim world?

Did al-Qaeda and thousands of Muslim suicide bombers, all blowing themselves up in the name of allah, just pop out of a vacuum?

When you're less inclined to parrot cheesy PR talking points perhaps you'd easily understand capsicum, herve et al.

-- Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:34 pm --

kanelli wrote:Herve, is it your insinuation that Islam is inherently a religion of terror? You don't think that there are other complex factors involved? Perhaps you should read the article linked in my post above.

Yes Kanelli, the guy was upset over Lars Vilk drawing Muhammad as a dog (but I'm sure his other grievance of Sweden acting in a peace keeping capacity in Afghanistan will be emphasized).

Does that sound as 'complex' to you as it does to me?

Berrin wrote:
I just looked at the dates of those documents...They date back 2006s..

I noticed that too Berrin - herve has got quite some answering to do!

He asked about where the 0.4% statistic came from, and when I quoted the Europol source and the official conclusion to him, there was no response.

It is worth repeating (for those in the cheaper seats who really, REALLY want to believe the Islamophobic blogger version of reality):

Here is what the 2009 report says on pg7

Islamist terrorism is still perceived as being the biggest threat worldwide, despite the fact that the EU only faced one Islamist terrorist attack in 2008. This bomb attack took place in the UK…Separatist terrorism remains the terrorism area which affects the EU most. This includes Basque separatist terrorism in Spain and France, and Corsican terrorism in France…Past contacts between ETA and the FARC illustrate the fact that also separatist terrorist organizations seek cooperation partners outside the EU on the basis of common interests. In the UK, dissident Irish republican groups, principally the RIRA and the CIRA, and other paramilitary groups may continue to engage in crime and violence.

And I'm still waiting to hear why they think this doesn't apply to the 'Bob Spencer' view of the world.

Perception is not reality. Due to the right wing’s influence and propaganda, people mistakenly think that Islamic terrorism is the greatest threat to the Western world. It is even a commonly held belief that Islamic terrorism poses an existential threat–that the very survival of the Western world is at stake. Of course, the reality is that there are other groups that engage in terrorism on a much larger scale, yet these terrorist incidents are minimized. Acts of terrorism committed by Muslims are purposefully sensationalized and focused upon, culminating in the idea that “(nearly) all terrorists are Muslims.”

But, that said - no amount of smoke and mirrors will hide the fact herve has got some questions to answer... starting with some stats of the total numbers of deportees from France!


Cheers,
Shafique

Herve, you are doing what many who share your opinion do. Both Shaf and myself wrote a lot about what you said, and Shaf asked you a few questions. You avoid answering them, and choose to comment on one point out of all that was said. Fine, I agree with you that 54 imams were kicked out for spreading hate, but are the Muslims really the only people to do that? No other faction in the world has done that? Why do you single Muslims out when so many do the same? I believe that shows your great bias about this topic.

Yes Herve, if he was moderate he would be upset about the cartoons and do something to peacefully protest it. If he was moderate he'd peacefully protest Sweden's presence in Afghanistan. He was an extremist and chose violence. As of yet we know nothing about this man's background and why he became attracted to such an extreme view. So, yes, I still believe this to be a complex issue. If it was a simple fact that Islam calls for terrorism against all non-believers, then every country in the world be ripped apart and facing attacks daily from the Muslim populations. That isn't happening, because the majority of Muslims are living normal peaceful lives alongside others of different backgrounds and religions. They are not extremists. They do not interpret their religion as a violent one.

I agree with you that 54 imams were kicked out for spreading hate, but are the Muslims really the only people to do that? No other faction in the world has done that? Why do you single Muslims out when so many do the same? I believe that shows your great bias about this topic.

Maybe, maybe not.

But I've never heard of a story of priests from other countries who were kicked out of France for spreading hatred or inciting religious militancy, have you?