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freefromrats · Sep 03, 2009

You really must try and keep up rats. I said the numbers of civilians killed by British military are 'countless' and asked you whether you thought they numbered more than 26 or not.

I agree, you believe that.

Asking me to count for you is really not on.

Interesting response, perhaps you are unaware that this thread is about counting the number of terror attacks/plots by converts to other religions?

I've so far racked up quite a collection of Muslim converts who have either successfully carried out jihad - DC snipers, Synagogue bomber, London suicide bomber, Iraq suicide bomber, or were prevented from committing acts of terrorism - Richard Reid (who was prevented from detonating explosives in flight), German converts who tried to kill hundreds and an Australian convert(s) in a terror cell which admitted that they wanted to murder 'thousands' of civilians.

It would appear your lone example is of a Prime Minister who chose to go to war over secular and diplomatic reasons (to help an ally). Moreover, I haven't seen any evidence that Tony Blair is a religious fundamentalist like the Muslim converts I have cited - the vast majority if not all of them justified their actions or were motivated by the texts and teachings of Islam (Jihad, martyrdom).

Now it would appear that you have since back-pedaled, claiming that the numbers are too high to count. I assume this is a creative ploy to avoid providing some numbers, but I could be wrong. After all, you were forthcoming in producing those quotes from Gibbon's book....

In the meantime, I'll simply wait for you to provide your stats and compare the numbers of converts to Islam who have been driven to extremism to the numbers of converts to other religions who have carried out violent attacks (suicide bombings, gun attacks, bombing nightclubs, Synagogue bombings and bomb plots) based on the texts and teachings of their religion. So far, that number stands at zero.

shafique · Sep 04, 2009

Ahh, and so the game ends. How sad.

We have a touching reluctuance to embrace reality by rats, who continues to cling to his belief about rampant wide-eyed boogey men terrorists despite his own stats showing that despite the hype, only one convert terrorist could be counted who killed 26 people.

Rats it appears you are trying to justify the killing of innocent civilian victims and refusing to ackowledge they number more than 26.

You are obviously very proud that after all the bluster and hype your count stands at ONE.

As I have matched your one British terrorist who killed 26 with another British convert whose actions have led to the killing of more than 26 civilians (via illegal actions, at that) - I feel my work here is done.

I didn't expect the facts to change your Fox News outlook on Islam - but it was interesting to see how long it took you to count up to one and your refusal to agree to counting the civilian victims as a comparison.

The fact that you are trying to justify killing of civilians lumps you in with those who justify the killings of civilians killed by other terrorists.

Cheers,
Shafique

freefromrats · Sep 04, 2009

Ah, I see that shafique has resorted to his usual tactic of setting up strawmen (or is shafique's reading ability in question once again?)

I must ask shafique, where have I justified the killing of civilians? This will be a tough one for shafique, but I will go ahead and clarify that I absolutely condemn the murder of civilians during war and I absolutely condemn any and all terror acts. This is the reason why I am so vocal in condemning the war crimes carried out by the early members of a certain religion, something shafique himself has chosen not to condemn but also to justify the many massacres carried out by the people in question, who shall go unnamed.

I also note that shafique has not provided any stats himself but feels inclined to declare this thread over. Hey, I can totally understand the PR mess by acknowledging the dozens upon dozens of converts to Islam who have since become radicalized by the texts and teachings of Islam and become succesful terrorists (Synagogue bomber, DC snipers, London and Iraqi suicide bombers) or unsuccesful terrorists - the Australian and German convert terror cells, Richard Reid, etc,.

It would appear that shafique's only argument when confronting the obvious tendency of converts to Islam to become radicalized is to deny and deflect. It's an interesting strategy. After all, I noticed that before the Iraq war (before hundreds of Islamist suicide bombers blew up Shia mosques and marketplaces), Muslim spokespeople would claim that oppression and/or poverty were the root causes of suicide bombers (at least Muslim suicide bombers). It's now sorta hard to claim that oppression and poverty is driving hundreds, indeed, over one thousand young Muslims to target their 'own' people in grizzly acts of suicide terrorism. I mean, is it likely that some guy from Algeria will travel hundreds of miles to kill Shia women and children because he's poor? Not likely.

In any event, it would be interesting to guess which convert will commit or attempt to commit the next terror attack - Muslim convert or non-Muslim convert?

If this thread is any indication, the odds are on the convert to Islam. But hey, shafique is more than welcome to focus on one anomaly. I wouldn't, after all, expect him to do anything other than deny and deflect.

shafique · Sep 05, 2009

Strawman?

Never mind - you say one terrorist over 8 years, I provided the body count of 26 victims.

You refuse to acknowledge that my count exceeds 26.

You also say you condemn all terrorist acts - yet you are silent when I ask you to confirm that Goldstein was a religously motivated terrorist who massacred worshippers whilst in Army uniform. I ask you to confirm that you aren't one of those who venerate his actions. ... I'm greeted with silence.

I understand the desire to run away from the fact that you started this thread confident that the stats will support your Orientalist views on Islam, and that the stats have thus far failed you. (I'm being generous in calling your one sole example a statistic - but in the strictest technical sense it is). Of course, the irony that you call my matching one example an 'anomaly' is probably lost on you.

Cheers,
Shafique

freefromrats · Sep 05, 2009

freefromrats wrote:In any event, it would be interesting to guess which convert will commit or attempt to commit the next terror attack - Muslim convert or non-Muslim convert?

Uh oh. Looks like my prediction didn't take long to come true.

Italy: Ramadan may be used to 'recruit militants' in prison

.....

"A Sicilian detainee converted to Islam in jail where he was serving a sentence for minor crimes, and after being set free he blew up two gas cylinders at the subway in Milan and at the Temple of Concord in Agrigento," he said.

http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Re ... 3731049377

Al Qaeda-Linked American Terrorist Unveiled

...

Hammami attended Daphne High School. He was raised Baptist like his mother, but his father is Muslim, and "some time in high school" Hammami converted to Islam

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,546510,00.html

How sad. The lives of two more men have become ruined because they have since been driven by the texts and teachings of their adoptive religion.

Couldn't say I told you so, but I did.

And for the record, I don't consider several successful and unsuccessful martyrdom bombers out of less than 100,000 people (Britain and Germany's Muslim convert population) to be an anomaly.

shafique · Sep 06, 2009

I see that rather than sticking to the topic of the thread and producing stats of numbers of terrorists and the numbers of their victims, rats feels the need to quote Fox News.

Interesting that when asked to condemn Goldstein's actions and confirm that he was a religously motivated terrorist who killed whilst in Army uniform, rats scurries away and reads Fox News, rather than face the hard cold stats.

(I could also have predicted that it would not take long for the Fox News brigade to furnish Ikka/rats with more evidence - I was not surprised that the actual killings of civilians in Afghanistan this week adds to the numbers of Muslim civilians killed to counterbalance the hype of Fox News supposed terrorists)

I really now wonder whether he does, after all, belong to the group of people who refuse to condemn Goldstein - or even those who still venerate what he did. I can't think why else rats evades this question - he condemns terrorism, he says, but does not confirm that he agrees Goldstein was a religously motivated terrorist.

Will we get an answer this time?

As for what rats considers anomalies and the norm, we've established that he will believe Fox's spin over his own stats - so not surprising he thinks he is right and everyone else is wrong.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Sep 06, 2009

freefromrats wrote:
freefromrats wrote:In any event, it would be interesting to guess which convert will commit or attempt to commit the next terror attack - Muslim convert or non-Muslim convert?

Uh oh. Looks like my prediction didn't take long to come true.

'next' ???

Another epic fail by rats.

The first story relates to

He referred to a case in 2001 and 2002, when a 29-year-old Italian who converted to Islam placed explosives in several places in Italy.

Perhaps rats thinks he is living in 2000 rather than 2009?

What is extremely telling is that he presents a piece that is pure hype (that recruits MAY be targetted in Ramadhan, and cites a case from 8 years ago - as something that has 'just taken place'.

Wow - I wonder if rats read the article or had someone else cut and paste the bit he posted. It appears that mis-representing quotes is not limited to books on Islamic history.

Or perhaps he thinks it was something that happened this week? Pray tell dear rats.

As for Al-Amriki - he is a well known Muslim convert fighting in Somalia. It's not surprising the yanks think it noteworthy to link him to Al Qaeda or that he is considered a terrorist back home - he's no different from all the other mercenaries that America exports who also commit terrorist crimes - not just in the Mid East, but notably in Latin America. That said, Al-Amriki targets military personnel as well and considers himself a freedom fighter.

But again, an epic fail on rats' part as Amriki is hardly a new case.

So - unless rats has a new definition for 'next' - he has just epically failed and shown he doesn't understand what he posts (or doesn't read his sources).

Cheers,
Shafique

freefromrats · Sep 06, 2009

Good. I guess the challenge is still on then.

In any event, it would be interesting to guess which convert will commit or attempt to commit the next terror attack - Muslim convert or non-Muslim convert?

Wanna take a guess? My bet's on Buddhist converts who blow up the next financial district. What do you think?

It's not surprising the yanks think it noteworthy to link him to Al Qaeda or that he is considered a terrorist back home... Al-Amriki targets military personnel as well and considers himself a freedom fighter.

Yes, I wonder why the US would think that a convert to Islam who traveled to Somalia to fight Jihad with a group such as Al-Shabaab (which admittedly wants to establish Islamic law across the world) and has taken credit for numerous suicide attacks against Somalia's civilian government, would have links to Al-Qaeda?

I also suppose you have evidence that Al-Amriki only targets military personnel? I guess that Shirwa Ahmed, "the first known American suicide bomber" who took out dozens after he, like Al-Amriki, traveled to fight Jihad in Somalia, didn't get the 'memo' to only target military personnel. But I think he also considered himself a 'freedom fighter.'

shafique · Sep 06, 2009

Epic failure, followed by denial. I see a pattern here.

I guess rats has realised that 'next' can't apply to an event from 8 years ago.

If the challenge is still on - i.e. to provide stats to back up the Fox News beliefs of rats, then let's wait to see the stats produced - including (hopefully) the list of victims.

But in case rats thinks I've overlooked his silence.... I'll repeat my question to him in the next post.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Sep 06, 2009

shafique wrote:Interesting that when asked to condemn Goldstein's actions and confirm that he was a religously motivated terrorist who killed whilst in Army uniform, rats scurries away and reads Fox News, rather than face the hard cold stats.
...

I really now wonder whether he does, after all, belong to the group of people who refuse to condemn Goldstein - or even those who still venerate what he did. I can't think why else rats evades this question - he condemns terrorism, he says, but does not confirm that he agrees Goldstein was a religously motivated terrorist.

Will we get an answer this time?

The question still hangs....

freefromrats · Sep 06, 2009

Still wondering why you're trying to change the subject. It couldn't be that you're denying/deflecting, now could it?

It's understandable - hey, if I wanted to maintain that converts to other religions were just as likely as Muslim converts to become radicalized and engage in terrorism, I would also be forced to ignore the facts.

If the challenge is still on - i.e. to provide stats to back up the Fox News beliefs of rats, then let's wait to see the stats produced - including (hopefully) the list of victims.

Strange obsession you have with websites. You couldn't possibly be projecting, could you?

In case you missed the posts, this thread is chalk full of converts to Islam who have become radicalized and go on to become successful/unsuccessful terrorists.

If you missed my challenge, I asked what is more likely to occur - for converts to Islam to be the ones to plot/carry out the next terror attack or converts to any and all other religions to attempt/actually carry out terror attacks, such as bombing commercial and financial districts, setting off explosives in subways...

I think the number of non-Muslim converts who have become religious zealots after converting to their adoptive religions still stands at zero.

But, please correct me if I'm wrong and you consider Tony Blair a religious zealot in the same vein that Richard Reid is one.

shafique · Sep 06, 2009

shafique wrote:
shafique wrote:Interesting that when asked to condemn Goldstein's actions and confirm that he was a religously motivated terrorist who killed whilst in Army uniform, rats scurries away and reads Fox News, rather than face the hard cold stats.
...

I really now wonder whether he does, after all, belong to the group of people who refuse to condemn Goldstein - or even those who still venerate what he did. I can't think why else rats evades this question - he condemns terrorism, he says, but does not confirm that he agrees Goldstein was a religously motivated terrorist.

Will we get an answer this time?

The question still hangs....

.still hanging..

And as far as I can tell, the current running total stands at:

Rats/Ikka - One Muslim convert who killed 26

Matched by one catholic convert whose actions have led to 'countless' civilian deaths.

rats/ikka quite understandably doesn't want to address either question or statistics.

Cheers,
Shafique

freefromrats · Sep 06, 2009

With all due respect, this thread is about comparing the number of convert extremists to Islam with the number of convert extremists to other religions:

I am more than happy to compare the number of terrorist attacks (thwarted ones included) of Muslim converts with the number of terror attacks (thwarted ones included) by converts to other faiths and then draw any conclusions from these numbers.

A lengthy list of terrorist Muslim converts who became radicalized from the texts and teachings of Islam has been provided in this thread.

It is you who has chosen to ignore these numerous examples and isolate a convert who does not 'fit' the definition of a religious fanatic.

So, the question goes back to, which converts do you think are more likely to carry out/attempt to carry out terror attacks - converts to Islam or converts to all other religions?

AFAIK, only Muslim converts have carried out suicide bombings (two) and an unknown number of converts to Islam have attempted to carry out suicide bombings - such as Richard Reid, who was physically prevented from detonating plastique on board a commercial airliner.

As for the other issue - if you want to rehash the issue if I universally condemn Middle Eastern terrorists in another thread, I am happy to provide my answer there.

shafique · Sep 07, 2009

shafique wrote:
shafique wrote:
shafique wrote:Interesting that when asked to condemn Goldstein's actions and confirm that he was a religously motivated terrorist who killed whilst in Army uniform, rats scurries away and reads Fox News, rather than face the hard cold stats.
...

I really now wonder whether he does, after all, belong to the group of people who refuse to condemn Goldstein - or even those who still venerate what he did. I can't think why else rats evades this question - he condemns terrorism, he says, but does not confirm that he agrees Goldstein was a religously motivated terrorist.

Will we get an answer this time?

The question still hangs....

.still hanging..

...still hanging..
(And just to clarify, I'm not asking whether you condemn all Mid East terrorists, but whether this American Doctor who gunned down worshippers for religious reasons is acknowledged by you as a religously motivated terrorist or not (I will take it as read that you would condemn him as a terrorist if you acknowledge he was indeed a religously motivated terrorist).

The question is relevant here, as you seem to be drawing conclusions from a statistical result of one actual terrorist who killed 26 and some other actual numpties and other hyped reports from the likes of Fox.)

So, do you or do you not agree that Goldstein was a religiously motivated terrorist who massacred worshippers whilst in army uniform and using army guns?

shafique wrote:And as far as I can tell, the current running total stands at:

Rats/Ikka - One Muslim convert who killed 26

Matched by one catholic convert whose actions have led to 'countless' civilian deaths.

freefromrats · Sep 07, 2009

So, the question goes back to, which converts do you think are more likely to carry out/attempt to carry out terror attacks - converts to Islam or converts to all other religions?

still hanging

shafique · Sep 07, 2009

freefromrats wrote:
So, the question goes back to, which converts do you think are more likely to carry out/attempt to carry out terror attacks - converts to Islam or converts to all other religions?

still hanging

The stats show that converts serving in the military in Afghanistan or Iraq are the most likely to kill civilians next. But, I'm intrigued as to why you are now asking about opinions rather than statistics?

Now, back to my question:

Interesting that when asked to condemn Goldstein's actions and confirm that he was a religously motivated terrorist who killed whilst in Army uniform, rats scurries away and reads Fox News, rather than face the hard cold stats.
...

I really now wonder whether he does, after all, belong to the group of people who refuse to condemn Goldstein - or even those who still venerate what he did. I can't think why else rats evades this question - he condemns terrorism, he says, but does not confirm that he agrees Goldstein was a religously motivated terrorist.

Will we get an answer this time?

The question still hangs....

.still hanging..

desertdudeshj · Sep 07, 2009

edit

Soory posted in the wrong website !!! LOL

freefromrats · Sep 08, 2009

But, I'm intrigued as to why you are now asking about opinions rather than statistics?

Ok, so converts to which religion have plotted/carried out more terror attacks?

So far, I am unaware of a single non-Muslim convert to any religion who has been arrested and/or charged for conspiring to kill unbelievers.

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of Muslim converts, can it?

freefromrats · Sep 08, 2009

A man accused of plotting to blow up trans-Atlantic planes filmed a martydom video in which he praises Osama bin Laden, a court had heard.

Islam, of Plaistow, east London, is one of eight men on trial who deny conspiring to murder thousands by exploding home-made liquid bombs onairliner flights.

Six of the defendants recorded suicide videos outlining their hatred of the West and threatening further attacks, prosecutors said.

..........

slam began: "This is from Umar Islam, the son of Islam, to the people of the world, to let you know the reasons for this action which Inshallah [God willing] I am going to undertake.

"This is an obligation on me as a Muslim to wage Jihad against the Kuffar [non-believers]."

..........

"This is a warning to the non-believers that if they do not leave our lands there are many more like us and many more like me ready to strike until the law of Allah is established on this earth."

From wikipedia:

Umar Islam (born 23 April 1978) (formerly Brian Young[1]) is one of the suspects arrested in the UK in connection to the 2006 transatlantic aircraft terrorist plot in the United Kingdom, and one of the nineteen whose accounts were frozen by the Bank of England.[2] Umar is of West Indian ancestry, converted to Islam 2-3 years ago, and married a Muslim woman, with whom he had a child.

Along with ten others, on August 21 2006 Umar Islam was charged with conspiracy to murder and commit acts of terrorism.[3]

freefromrats · Sep 08, 2009

5 guilty in UK terror plot

Convicted of plotting to bomb London nightclub, power plants or shopping mall

By DAVID STRINGER
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Monday, April 30th 2007, 8:26 AM

LONDON - A jury convicted five men Monday of plotting to use a 1,300 pound fertilizer bomb to attack a London nightclub, power plants or a shopping mall following a yearlong trial, the country’s longest-ever terror case.

Details that previously were kept secret to ensure a fair trial showed ties between the five and a group who bombed the London transit system in 2005, as well as with other al-Qaida linked cells.

Omar Khyam was found guilty of conspiracy to cause explosions made from chemical fertilizer which would endanger life. Also found guilty in the conspiracy were Anthony Garcia, Jawad Akbar, Waheed Mahmood and Alahuddin Amin.

The verdicts were read after a record of nearly 135 hours of deliberation over 27 days. The five men who were convicted showed no emotion.

The judge, Sir Michael Astill, rejected defense claims that the plot had been abandoned.

“This was a conspiracy that did not come to fruition, no doubt because of the intervention of the security services,” Astill said.

Two others, Nabeel Hussain and Shujah Mahmood, were cleared of conspiracy to cause explosions.

Shujah Mahmood gave a sigh of relief after being acquitted. Hussain immediately bent down to the floor as the verdict was read.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_worl ... z0QTK2aJPC

I'm losing count. : (

shafique · Sep 08, 2009

shafique wrote:Now, back to my question:

Interesting that when asked to condemn Goldstein's actions and confirm that he was a religously motivated terrorist who killed whilst in Army uniform, rats scurries away and reads Fox News, rather than face the hard cold stats.
...

I really now wonder whether he does, after all, belong to the group of people who refuse to condemn Goldstein - or even those who still venerate what he did. I can't think why else rats evades this question - he condemns terrorism, he says, but does not confirm that he agrees Goldstein was a religously motivated terrorist.

Will we get an answer this time?

The question still hangs....

.still hanging..

I could neither see an updated count, nor an answer to my question above.

Interesting that you should be 'losing count' - the last count was 1 actual terrorist (and I had to tell you he killed 26)

Why don't you want to answer my question rats - is it because you do support Goldstein's actions, or can't you bring yourself to admit that he's a religiously motivated terrorist who was American, educated and an Army official?

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Sep 08, 2009

Sorry, don't like my old SN, anyways...

I could neither see an updated count, nor an answer to my question above.

You'll have to look harder then. The five men jihad terror team who were convicted for planning jihad included a convert that I had not counted before.

I can understand why you would want to change the subject of this thread but, sorry, I won't bite.

Now, can you answer my last Q?

Ok, so converts to which religion have plotted/carried out more terror attacks?

By my count, only Muslim converts have carried out and attempted to carry out terror attacks. This includes successful and unsuccessful suicide bombings and only Muslim converts seem to fit the criteria of religious fundies who are following the texts and teachings of their religion.

shafique · Sep 08, 2009

Ahh - i'll miss rats!

So events horizon, can I call you 'eh' for short, you refuse to answer my question about Goldstein. I see, interesting. Why is that?

As for your count - yes, one actual terrorist and 5 accused of plotting terrorist plots. You have provided no stats for the numbers of victims -I had to give you the count of 26.

My count is one convert whose tally of civilian deaths is 'countless' - but more than 26 at least.

I agree that you can come up with more instances of headlines of Muslim converts being accused of being terrorists, being entrappe by the FBI etc - but you will recall that we wanted to look at stats to establish whether this was hype over substance.

I cannot come up with a figure for how many converts are serving in the military or sitting brooding at home and dreaming of killing some 'rag heads' in Eye-raq. I would hazard a guess that there are some numpties around who fit this description - the same numpty types who would commit Columbine High School type massacres just to get noticed.

Therefore, the proof of the pudding is in the eating - the extent of the actual threat is in the actual killings/terror (rather than the headlines).

Goldstein actually carried out the Hebron massacre, and his supporters venerate his actions - there are many more who talk the talk (and publish books etc), but it is those who actually kill and actively plot who count. I understand why you don't want to admit to Goldstein being a religously based terrorist - but given you have only come up with one actual terrorist and 5 foiled wannabes, I wanted to see whether you would finally agree that Goldstein also fitted in the same category as the one example you provided (as a terrorist killer who killed for religious reasons).

Your silence speaks volumes.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Sep 09, 2009

As for your count - yes, one actual terrorist and 5 accused of plotting terrorist plots.

Well, actually it looks like the number of converts to Islam 'plotting' (actually, one would-be suicide bomber had the misfortune of having his explosives not detonating properly) suicide bombings is up to six.

But yes, there has been one successful Muslim convert who blew himself up and six Muslim converts who would have been suicide bombers if it wouldn't have been for the meddling police and botched chemical mixing.

Now, any word on how many British, convert suicide bombers to other religions - successful or would be, there are?

I'm guessing that number is right around zero, but I'm going to need you to confirm that for me.

shafique · Sep 09, 2009

event horizon wrote:
As for your count - yes, one actual terrorist and 5 accused of plotting terrorist plots.

Well, actually it looks like the number of converts to Islam 'plotting' (actually, one would-be suicide bomber had the misfortune of having his explosives not detonating properly) suicide bombings is up to six.

Cool.

So 1 actual terrorist who killed 26, and 6 plotters.

vs

1 Catholic convert whose actions killed many more civilians than those above.

May I ask whether you are an only child? You seem to be displaying traits of one - did you throw tantrums when you didn't get your way and were told that you were right just to keep you quiet (when you were actually wrong?)

Now, there was something else - what was it??? hmmm..

Ah yes, the question you keep avoiding....

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Sep 09, 2009

shafique wrote:
shafique wrote:Now, back to my question:

Interesting that when asked to condemn Goldstein's actions and confirm that he was a religously motivated terrorist who killed whilst in Army uniform, rats scurries away and reads Fox News, rather than face the hard cold stats.
...

I really now wonder whether he does, after all, belong to the group of people who refuse to condemn Goldstein - or even those who still venerate what he did. I can't think why else rats evades this question - he condemns terrorism, he says, but does not confirm that he agrees Goldstein was a religously motivated terrorist.

Will we get an answer this time?

The question still hangs....

.still hanging..

shafique · Sep 11, 2009

still waiting

event horizon · Sep 12, 2009

As I said, I'm more than happy to condemn middle eastern terrorists, I just don't see the relevance of your question in this thread.

shafique · Sep 12, 2009

shafique wrote:
shafique wrote:
shafique wrote:Now, back to my question:

Interesting that when asked to condemn Goldstein's actions and confirm that he was a religously motivated terrorist who killed whilst in Army uniform, rats scurries away and reads Fox News, rather than face the hard cold stats.
...

I really now wonder whether he does, after all, belong to the group of people who refuse to condemn Goldstein - or even those who still venerate what he did. I can't think why else rats evades this question - he condemns terrorism, he says, but does not confirm that he agrees Goldstein was a religously motivated terrorist.

Will we get an answer this time?

The question still hangs....

.still hanging..

Still waiting for the confirmation that rats/ikka/eh agrees that Goldstein is a religiously motivated terrorist who was an Israeli Army officer - many believe he was a hero and not a terrorist. He was also a white American - so some would not call him 'middle eastern' (and the qualification of 'middle easter' for 'terrorists' also speaks volumes).

Therefore, still waiting to see whether Ikka is an apologist for Goldstein or does condemn him unreservedly and acknowledges him as a religiously motivated terrorist.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Sep 14, 2009

Zakaria Maruf, 30, moved to Minneapolis as a young teenager in 1993. He was promptly arrested for trying to steal a $15.99 necklace at a mall in Minneapolis and later fell in with the Hot Boyz, a violent street gang that had started out as a rhythm and blues band performing at Somali weddings. He visited Canada and other cities while on a traveling basketball team and graduated from Edison High School in 2000, but his criminal record hampered his search for a job, one friend recalled. He eventually found work in the stock room of a Wal-Mart in St. Paul. At the mosque, he was known for his call to prayer, which is still a ringtone on some cellphones in Minneapolis. He left for Somalia in the spring of 2008 and later emerged as a recruiter for the Shabaab.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009 ... eline.html

Yes, he was a convert to the Religion of Peace and subsequently joined a violent Islamist insurgency dedicated to toppling a 'moderate' Islamist government.

Since his capture at an Al Qaeda training camp last year in Pakistan, Bryant Neal Vinas of Long Island, N.Y., is working with authorities in investigations rooted in many countries, authorities say.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 8631.story

Shocker, another convert joins al-Qaeda.

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