Finally, Peace At Last

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Finally, Peace at last Mar 06, 2012
Now with FD in full-on comedy mode, we can all now relax and realise that he was never here for discussion after all (this as clear for quite a while).

With herve and eh not answering questions posed to them either (herve in the revelation thread by Bora and eh in countless others - most notably all the questions on Christianity), even the 'Ooh, a muslim farted over in Tajikistan and this is proof that all Muslims are in favour of chemical attacks' type hyped stories have lessened in the past week or so.

I think we've finally achieved peace in the blogosphere, with the anti-Muslims licking their wounds and muttering 'yes master' or skulking away in silence seething at the awkward questions being asked.

Of course, I suspect that they are just re-grouping and will barrage us with even more Memri specials and blogger-only cuts and pastes - and when they do, I'll just label them for what they are.

In the mean time, I expect some more mutterings about how it is Muslims who are nazi-like, and not them. This projection is the most amusing part of their collapse today.

:D

Cheers,
Shafique

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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 06, 2012
shafique wrote:we can all now relax


It's a tat arrogant wouldn't you say, to claim to speak on behalf of all.

I suspect that they are just re-grouping


Re-group.:-). You mean in our smoke filled command centre from where we try to control DF. :-) :-) :-)
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 06, 2012
The lose for words and a intelligent response to my thread is beyond belief. I'm sure there would be much to say if someone came on and supported the content of Mein Kampf. The noise would be deafening. But the silence is even more deafening. I guess those who find the book replusive in it's original form would champion it if replacing the word "Jew" with "Muslim". Talk about hyposcrisy.
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 06, 2012
:D Hey FD, I'd love for you guys to reform and prove me wrong.

In the meantime, let's enjoy your 'yes master' line of discussion. How long will you keep it up and avoid the very real questions that Bora et al have put to you (collectively)??

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 06, 2012
shafique wrote:How long will you keep it up and avoid the very real questions that Bora et al have put to you (collectively)??


I didn't know I didn't answer any question. I must have missed something. Post them here and I answer ALL of them.
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 06, 2012
Flying Dutchman wrote:I didn't know I didn't answer any question. I must have missed something. Post them here and I answer ALL of them.


Yes master, yes massa is an answer?
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 06, 2012
I found two questions in your thread:

Guess who the vile little person is that wrote the book and left a black stain on history that will never be forgotten? Guess what religion he thought was the evil of the world?

I thought they were rhetorical. But my answers would be Adolf Hitler. He found jews and gays especially evil. He also hated gypses, and had a fascination with the Aryan race.

Anymore questions?
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 06, 2012
Flying Dutchman ,

Why are you responding to questions here rather than the thread itself?

Two questions FD. One had to do with a person, the other with religion. I guess you aren't familiar with the two major issues AH had: politics and Jews.

He didn't dwell on homosexuality and gypsies. Did he have different camps for homosexuals and gypsies? Is that what history remembers, his homosexual and gypsy cleansing? I don't think so. He wanted to eliminate an entire religion because of his sense of Aryan superiority. Pretty much what some white people (Ayran?) want to do to Muslims.

Go back and answer the questions within the thread FD. I would have at least some respect for you if you could be honest for once and face the content of my post and the questions within, head on with clear and precise answers, simple answers at that. The last two require a simple yes or a no. Your failure to do so is indicative of the person who you really are.
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 06, 2012
Get your facts straight, Bora. Roma were just as bad off as the Jews under Nazi occupation. They were fewer in number and so fewer died in the Holocaust.

Jews were the poster children for undesirables for the Nazis because the Jewish issue had greater resonance/importance for a variety of reasons - many reasons being logical; such as longer established presence in Western Europe, larger numbers and greater awareness in society as a whole. Roma were (and are) lived in the periphery of European society. So, it's obvious why Jews would be in the Nazi craw more than other groups.

Homosexuality was not openly practiced during that time period as Judaism was. Homosexuals were out of the public eye so they would not have been the Nazi's primary target. Other reasons be be found for other targeted groups to explain why Jews were the supposed primary focus of the Nazis.

And just because history doesn't remember non-Jews dying in concentration and death camps doesn't mean it didn't happen. Nearly half the victims of the camps were non-Jews. Most of them were Eastern Europeans but many Roma also died. I don't know what Roma numbers were in Nazi occupied Europe to compare with the number of Roma that died in the camps, but it's perhaps safe to assume they were just as likely to be rounded up as Jews.

As far as camps? There were different types of camps to begin with. But Roma, homosexuals, communists and others wore specially designated badges identifying them for the reason for their being in the camp.

Pretty much what some white people (Ayran?) want to do to Muslims.


More hyperbole as usual. Not only are you not a "phobe", "loon" or "hate-monger" for making this claim - as you would be branded if you made the claim that some Muslims want non-Muslims put in death camps - but you refuse to demonstrate your claim on any logical observation or consistent evidence based platform that would then be used for Muslims.

Non-Muslims want to throw Muslims into camps?

Your evidence?

And could that same evidence be found in the Muslim world. Ergo, can the same conclusion be made of Muslims because it's based off the same evidence?

I await your response.
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 06, 2012
event horizon ,

Get lost. Who's talking to you? Errrr, that would be no one.
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 06, 2012
Bora Bora wrote:Go back and answer the questions within the thread FD.


Ja, massa. You edited your latest post in that thread later on, so I missed it, I abologize.


Bora Bora wrote: I would have at least some respect for you


And why should I care? I don't. I have 0,0 respect for you. I only respect those that earn it.
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 06, 2012
Flying Dutchman wrote:And why should I care? I don't. I have 0,0 respect for you. I only respect those that earn it.


Well I see you did answer in the appropriate post. Do you really think I care if you respect me or not? This is nothing but a forum and you are nothing but fingers on a keyboard hiding behind a screen. You should be thankful that anyone would give you any kind of respect, no matter how small it could be.

What's important to me is my own self-respect, which I have plenty of.

Many people don't get respect, nor do they have self-respect. But you would know about that wouldn't ya???
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 06, 2012
Bora Bora wrote:Do you really think I care if you respect me or not?


No, not at all. You seemed to be arrogant enough though to think I care for your respect, which I don't. I do care for the respect of those that matter.
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 07, 2012
Bora Bora wrote:The lose for words and a intelligent response to my thread is beyond belief. I'm sure there would be much to say if someone came on and supported the content of Mein Kampf. The noise would be deafening. But the silence is even more deafening. I guess those who find the book replusive in it's original form would champion it if replacing the word "Jew" with "Muslim". Talk about hyposcrisy.
QFT

--- Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:05 am ---

event horizon wrote:Roma were just as bad off as the Jews under Nazi occupation.
That somehow changes the main issue? Talk about beating the wind around the bush.
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 07, 2012
Well, during WW2 Japanese people and those of partial Japanese heritage were interned in camps in the West Coast of US and Canada. Clearly if paranoia about a certain group of people reigns, things like that can happen.
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 07, 2012
Amazing. 'Laurel and Hardy' are determined to stay in a grumpy mood it seems - and my prediction in the OP of 'mutterings' seems to have been spot on (but I expected them to post them in the relevant threads.. but hey, in their grumpiness we have to expect trolling of threads).

Anyway - it seems they've both lost the argument in this thread too. I expect the grumpiness levels to increase, and am disappointed that the relative peace was short-lived. :roll:

I am impressed with the creative ways in which questions are evaded though. That must take some practice. ;)

Cheers,

Shafique
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 07, 2012
kanelli wrote:Well, during WW2 Japanese people and those of partial Japanese heritage were interned in camps in the West Coast of US and Canada. Clearly if paranoia about a certain group of people reigns, things like that can happen.


Publicly the purpose of government setting up internment camps for (persecuting) the Japanese, more than half were American citizens, it was claimed it was for their own safety - backlash from Americans, especially because the attack by Japan on Pearl Harbor was a bit too close to home. Privately it was because Japanese translated into the enemy.

In 1988, Congress passed and President Ronald Reagan signed legislation which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government. The legislation said that government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership


Jewish persecution was based on religion alone.
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 07, 2012
I've often wondered, if another serious war broke out in the Middle East and the West stepped into the fray and we saw the start of a 3rd World War, what would happen to people of Middle Eastern descent and of course anyone who is Muslim in the West? It isn't inconceivable to me that there would be calls to intern a large group of people fitting the profile of the "enemy". Even now, in the absence of a war, we have people on this forum calling for profiling of Muslims, and insinuating that Muslims posting here are really terrorists underneath it all.
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 07, 2012
kanelli ,

I doubt that will every happen. Sometimes countries (people) learn from their mistakes or from the mistakes of others. Then you have countries (people) that didn't learn anything from their own experiences and inflict those same experiences on another country (people).
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 07, 2012
I think that a climate of Islamphobia, built up over years, would definitely create an environment where that kind of thing could happen again. As a whole, the human species doesn't seem to learn well from past mistakes.
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 07, 2012
We don't need to worry about hypotheticals in the West.

We know what has happened to other religious minorities across the Muslim world.
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 07, 2012
Very true event horizon. Just look what happened in the last few decades in the Arab Muslims world: persecution of Christians, expulsions of jews and not to forgot the expulsion of Pali's in the Gulf. That's how much they care for them! this is going on without WW III...
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 07, 2012
event horizon wrote:We don't need to worry about hypotheticals in the West.


Yes, you have first had experience of anti-Semitism and the Holocaust - that's the big point being made here.

As for your weak whataboutery argument - I refer you to the previous advice about not believing what is on your anti-Muslim blog sites you worship.

Cheers,

Shafique
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 08, 2012
Yes, you have first had experience of anti-Semitism and the Holocaust - that's the big point being made here.


Indeed. The allies and Soviet Union fought Nazi Germany and her genocide. The German Holocaust and anti-Semitism are universally denounced in the West.

But remind me again when the previous incident of a large mass religious cleansing in the Muslim world has subsequently been denounced; therefore making the possibility of a future religious cleansing less likely?
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 08, 2012
Strawman.

The point made by Bora is that anti-Semitism and indeed the Holocaust are European issues, and historically it is because of religion that the Jews were persecuted by Christians. You can't blame Islam for your religion's treatment of Jews and the millions slaughtered over the centuries because of the Bible.

By contrast, the Jews for much of the period that they were being persecuted by Christians were given sanctuary by Muslim rulers. The isolated incidents of violence against Jews are examples of sporadic violence against minorities (such as against Shia or other inter-Muslim violence) or in the late 19th and 20th century as a result of European immigration to Palestine.

Deal with the plank in your eye first.

Cheers,

Shafique
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 08, 2012
The isolated incidents of violence against Jews are examples of sporadic violence against minorities (such as against Shia or other inter-Muslim violence) or in the late 19th and 20th century as a result of European immigration to Palestine.


Sorry, but you can't blame Islamic Antisemitism on the free movement of people.

We all know Iran's discriminatory Jewish laws are from medieval times centures before the 19th and 20th century - and it's based on the Koran and hadith, not anything else.
event horizon
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 08, 2012
Err - I think you mean 'all of us who believe in anti-muslim bloggers'.. rather than 'we all know..'

Facts, young one, not spin.

Cheers,

Shafique
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Re: Finally, Peace at last Mar 08, 2012
Sorry, but what are Iran's discriminatory Islamic laws based on, again?

Are you trying to blame Europe for Islamic law?
event horizon
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Re: Finally, Peace At Last Mar 09, 2012
I'm blaming Europe for the massive amounts of killing of Jews in Europe - historically because of Christian beliefs, and only in the 20th century because Catholic raised Hitler decided to take up the baton of earlier European anti-Semitism.

The Jewish community in Iran is actually a good example of how Jews can live without oppression and mass killing in a Muslim majority country - historically and today. Blogger distortions do not change reality.

Cheers,

Shafique
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Re: Finally, Peace at last Mar 09, 2012
The Nazi is claiming Jews are not oppressed in Iran. The laws discriminating against Jews and other religious minorities speaks for itself.

To imagine this Nazi troll on the other thread claims to be standing up to bigotry.

What's ironic is that many current laws discriminating against Jews and religious minorities in Iran were also used against Jews in Nazi Germany - such as marriage laws and inheritance rights.


Only Muslims are able to take part in the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran and to conduct public affairs at a high level. According to the Constitution, non-Muslims cannot hold the following key decision-making positions:

- President of the Islamic Republic of Iran, who must be a Shi'a Muslim (Article 1156)


- Commanders in the Islamic Army (Article 1447)


- Judges, at any level (Article 163 and law of 1983 on the selection of judges )


Moreover, non-Muslims are not eligible to become members of the Parliament (the Islamic Consultative Assembly) through the general elections. Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians can only run for the specific seats allocated to these minorities by Article 64 of the Constitution: one seat for Zoroastrians, one seat for Jews, one seat for Assyrian and Chaldean Christians, one seat for Armenian Christians in the North and one seat for Armenian Christian in the South. However, these minorities are unable to play a role in mainstream politics. As for the nonrecognized religious minorities, they are totally excluded from any Parliamentary representation since they can neither vote nor be elected.

Finally, non-Muslims cannot become members of the very influential Guardian Council....

A study of the Penal Code of the Islamic Republic of Iran reveals that, for a number of offences, the punishment differs in function of the religion of the victim and/or the religion of the offender. The fate of Muslim victims and offenders is systematically more favorable than that of non-Muslims, showing that the life and physical integrity of Muslims is given a much higher value than that of non-Muslims. This institutionalized discrimination is particularly blatant for the following crimes10:

The sanctions for adultery vary widely according to the religion of both members of the couple. A Muslim man who commits adultery with a Muslim woman is punished by 100 lashes (Article 8811). However, a non-Muslim man who commits adultery with a Muslim woman is subject to the death penalty (Article 82-c12). If a Muslim man commits adultery with a non-Muslim woman, the Penal Code does not specify any penalty....

"Qisas", or retaliation, is the right of revenge belonging to the victim's heir. It implies that the punishment be equivalent in nature and severity to the offence. In the case of a murder, such a punishment is the death penalty. "Diyah", or "blood money" compensation, is the possibility offered to the victim's heir to forgo their right to "qisas" by accepting monetary compensation in exchange.


Articles 20714 and 20915 of the Penal Code provide that "qisas" is applicable when a Muslim is murdered. It is also applicable when the member of a recognized religious minority murders another member of a recognized religious minority (Article 21016). However, no provision of the Penal Code envisages the murder of a non-Muslim by a Muslim, the punishment of which is left to the discretion of the judges. Article 2 of the Penal Code states that "Every action or omission of an action for which there is a punishment in law, will be regarded as an offence". On the contrary, in the absence of any punishment in law (like in the case of the murder of a non-Muslim by a Muslim) a judge can consider that no offence has taken place at all.

Article 29717 sets forth the rules for the calculation of the "blood money" to be paid to the family when the victim is a Muslim man. Its exact value is set each year to a certain amount by the Judiciary. At the date of the publication of the present report, the "blood money" compensation for a non-Muslim male victim who is a member of a recognized religious minority, or of a female victim (Muslim or non-Muslim) remains half of the compensation offered to the family of a Muslim male victim. Claims by relatives of a victim who was a member of a non-recognized religious minority are purely dismissed....


Article 881 of the Civil Code states that a non-Muslim is not allowed to inherit property from a Muslim. Moreover, the same article states that if one of the beneficiaries of a non-Muslim is Muslim, this individual (regardless of that person's degree of relationship with the deceased) will collect the entire inheritance to the detriment of all other non-Muslim members of the family. In practice, this law not only discriminates against religious minorities but also encourages conversion to Islam through the lure of material retribution....

Marriage between a Muslim woman and a non-Muslim man is forbidden by Article 1059 of the Civil Code. However, Muslim men are allowed to marry non-Muslim women. This distinction is justified by the fact that the man is deemed to be the dominant partner in the couple. Therefore, if the man is Muslim, Islam is supposed to be dominant in the couple, whereas it would not be the case if the woman were Muslim and the man non-Muslim....


http://www.fidh.org/IMG/pdf/ir0108a.pdf
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