Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk

I looked the group in the story up; and it appears they are a "dialog"/activist organization.

I suppose it's supreme Orwellian when we have activist organizations praising individuals who made careers denying the worst atrocity in history.

As the article points out:

“What does it say about Islam if they adopt him as a hero,” Samuels asked. “Can you imagine the Rabbinical Council of Europe glamorizing [Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring] Brevik in view of his hostility toward Muslims? We call on Muslim leaders to condemn the FOIE for this travesty?” Samuels said the FIOE was affiliated with Muslim Brotherhood and had its headquarters in London.

But, to be fair, the Holocaust denier, Roger Garaudy, wasn't known exclusively for his denying the Holocaust. He, apparently, worked for "human rights", even being awarded a human rights prize by human rights stalwart, Muammar Gaddafi (which I'm sure he accepted without reservation):

Agence France-Press noted that Garaudy won then-Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi’s human rights prize in 2002.

Or perhaps his "human rights" prize was for denying the Holocaust?

Err, who knows? Either way, he's been praised by other leading luminaries, such as Hassan Nasrallah, for his views on the Holocaust and 9/11*.

* Roger Garaudy was also a truther nutjob, believing the US (and Israel?) were behind the attacks.

http://www.jpost.com/International/Arti ... um=twitter

rayznack wrote:I looked the group

Well done, it makes a refreshing change. Geller should take a leaf out of your book and learn to do searches:

dubai-politics-talk/islamophobes-should-learn-google-t51108.html

I quote that link because the JP article seems to be suffering from the fault highlighted in that thread. It uses the word 'Islam' for the action of this one Belgium group. Hmm. Does this therefore not make it guilty of:

They generalize specific incidents to reflect on all Muslims or all of Islam. When they are caught in the act of making up or distorting claims they engage in devious methods to attempt to conceal the evidence.
..
The Islamophobia of these folks is very real, and it is also strikingly similar to a previous generations' anti-Semitism.

As for Garaudy's views on the Holocaust - Berrin agrees with his viewpoint that the killing of Jews by Nazis did not constitute genocide. On this forum it appears this view is only shared by Berrin. Therefore any hype about Muslims in general being Holocaust deniers will be very hard to make. But then again JP is not the most unbiased of media outlets, is it?

Cheers,

Shafique

Here are some of Garaudy's fans and admirers:

Garaudy has been praised throughout the Islamic World:

In June 1999, Jordanian intellectuals named Garaudy "the most important international cultural personality of the 20th century."

Former Syrian vice-president Abdul-Halim Khaddam has called Garaudy "the greatest contemporary Western philosopher."

Libyan leader Muammar al-Gaddafi stated that Garaudy is "Europe's greater philosopher since Plato and Aristotle."[7]

Garaudy was a co-winner of the King Faisal International Prize for Services to Islam in 1986.[8]

In February 2006, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah described Garaudy as "a great French philosopher." Nasrallah went on to praise Garaudy for exposing "alleged Jewish Holocaust in Germany" and stated that Garaudy "proved that this Holocaust is a myth." Nasrallah also criticized France for putting Garaudy on trial.[9]

Anyway, it looks like you're trying to claim Holocaust denial is not a widespread view in certain parts of the world? You're not actually trying to claim this, are you?

In future give the link the wiki page.

And yes, I am indeeding calling you and the JP article author out for generalising from one incident.

As for what you believe about Muslims - that's like asking the KKK about their views of Black civil rights leaders. Let's stick to tangible facts - such as in the recent thread, only Berrin (here) agreed that the killings of Jews did not constitute genocide. He didn't deny that the Jews were killed by Nazis (as stated in the other thread - most of us here disagree with his view).

Cheers,
Shafique

Let's stick to tangible facts - such as in the recent thread, only Berrin (here) agreed that the killings of Jews did not constitute genocide.

Great - happy to compare Jew hatred posts by you and others on the forum to "Muslim hating" posts supposedly made by the Islamophobes.

Why do I imagine this challenge will go ignored?

It couldn't be that one side sticks to tangible facts while the other only engages in name calling, could it?

Anyway, happy to compare Jew hating posts to Muslim hating anyday.

Sure eh, knock yourself out. Remember where that challenge got you last time? If I recall correctly you were in denial that there were any anti-Muslim posts by the banned few. How we laughed.

But please do that in another thread - you can do the counting.

The point in this thread is that you can't generalise to all Muslim posters here the views of Garaudy. I suspect that is causing you some heartache. The fact that you quoted JP making this false generalisation is probably why you chose to post it. You share the failure then.

Cheers,

Shafique

I actually have another thread documenting racism and antisemitism on the forum. That would be the thread for you to post "Muslim hating" posts by the "Islamophobes".

Facts over hype (though it seems Andy relies too much on PM's run on hype).

Oh, I thought that other thread was just a cut and paste of a post from a couple of years back (and without any links).

Anyway, I've invited you to do the documenting - I was just hoping for a repeat of your last attempt where you were denial that there were any anti-Muslim posts. Weren't you trying then to get Andy to take notice of your rants? How did that work out for you and your friends?

But back to this topic - in what way is the JP comment about 'Islam' not a generalisation that is not based on any fact? Is it not just hype?

Cheers,

Shafique

rayznack wrote:Or perhaps his "human rights" prize was for denying the Holocaust?

Do you ever understand in what sense they revise their thoughts on holocaust? I guess you'll never get it, for we have long been politically brainwashed..

However if you really wonder, you can read Roger Garaudy's books online, from this link...

http://www.radioislam.org/garaudy/english/index.htm

Speak for yourself Berrin - I haven't been politically brainwashed about the Holocaust. You seem to be pretty gullible and non-critical about conspiracy theories and history revisionism.

berrin, I'll give your link to the Islamic website on Holocaust denial a look.

Roger Garaudy's popularity in certain parts of the world certainly speaks volumes; and, as your link to an Islamist website shows, Roger definitely has more support than one Holocaust denier on dubaiforums.

Garaudy has been praised throughout the Islamic World:

In June 1999, Jordanian intellectuals named Garaudy "the most important international cultural personality of the 20th century."

Former Syrian vice-president Abdul-Halim Khaddam has called Garaudy "the greatest contemporary Western philosopher."

Libyan leader Muammar al-Gaddafi stated that Garaudy is "Europe's greater philosopher since Plato and Aristotle."[7]

Garaudy was a co-winner of the King Faisal International Prize for Services to Islam in 1986.[8]

In February 2006, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah described Garaudy as "a great French philosopher." Nasrallah went on to praise Garaudy for exposing "alleged Jewish Holocaust in Germany" and stated that Garaudy "proved that this Holocaust is a myth." Nasrallah also criticized France for putting Garaudy on trial.[9]

(I also noticed an article entitled "Obama's Jewish masters" in you link from radioislam)



Also:

"Jews, who want to be decent human beings, have to renounce being Jewish"

http://www.radioislam.org/gaza/macdonald.htm

At least shafique's antisemitic author would approve - he believe Jews are responsible for the world's problems.

(shafique also believes "chosen one" means privileged or superior)

rayznack wrote:At least shafique's antisemitic author

Your memory is letting you down yet again eh. If you're referring to Karmi, then it was Berrin that initially quoted him and FD that misleadingly posted a selective quote (without a link) trying to make him out to be anti-Semitic. Your fail is again epic.
philosophy-dubai/hasan-karmi-anti-semite-t43065.html

Facts rarely seem to agree with your rants these days. What is causing you so much angst eh?

You remain the most extreme religious fanatic posting here - exceeding even Berrin.
philosophy-dubai/most-extreme-religous-fanatic-here-t41961.html


Cheers,
Shafique

If you're referring to Karmi, then it was Berrin

So Berrin the antisemite found an author he's in agrement with regarding Jews?

(that alone should tell me something)

and FD that misleadingly posted a selective quote (without a link) trying to make him out to be anti-Semitic.

Find a poster on here who isn't you, berrin or any other established antisemite who will agree that Kami's comments on Jews aren't pure Antisemitism.

Facts rarely seem to agree with your rants these days. What is causing you so much angst eh?

Btw, what was the post another member made that some loon called him a Nazi for? I think it was a member by the handle "Flying Dutchman".

What did he say to get himself branded a Nazi? I'd *love* to look at FD's post and compare it with Kami - see who's the real hatemonger.

Now that I think about it, I seem to remember this poster, FD, calling berrin an antisemite way back when (another poster, strangely enough, was defending berrin's antisemitic comments). Boy, did that poster (FD) get it right.

Was he now?

What did he do; deny the Holocaust, make Antisemitic posts, info-mine?

Too bad. He was, after all, right all along. Funny how that works out.

You banned lot now coming back under various aliases didn't have a problem spreading your anti-Islamic hate propaganda, so why whine about other people's hate propaganda? Leave the whining to those of us who actually loathe all types of hate propaganda.

info-miner wrote:didn't have a problem spreading your anti-Islamic hate propaganda, so why whine about other people's hate propaganda?

Really? Who are those who hate all types of propaganda?

Unlike you and your imagined "Islamophobia" that you fail to substantiate, I have actually provided post after post of Antisemitic comments made by forum members.

Again eh, when caught out you resort to ranting.

You and FD tried a failed to make me out as an anti-semite - FD had to resort to selectively quoting Karmi and was found out.

Anyway - you failed then, and eventually both you and FD got banned for your posts. But you're back and still trying the same misinformation and very poor attempts at smears. You failed then, you're failing now.

Back to the topic -

in what way is the JP comment about 'Islam' not a generalisation that is not based on any fact? Is it not just hype?

Cheers,

Shafique

What "generalization" are you referring to?

You really need to work on your memory issues eh.

I was quite clear in my first post:

shafique wrote:I quote that link because the JP article seems to be suffering from the fault highlighted in that thread. It uses the word 'Islam' for the action of this one Belgium group. Hmm. Does this therefore not make it guilty of:

They generalize specific incidents to reflect on all Muslims or all of Islam. When they are caught in the act of making up or distorting claims they engage in devious methods to attempt to conceal the evidence.
..
The Islamophobia of these folks is very real, and it is also strikingly similar to a previous generations' anti-Semitism.

So, let me ask again:
in what way is the JP comment about 'Islam' not a generalisation that is not based on any fact? Is it not just hype?

Cheers,
Shafique

rayznack wrote:So Berrin the antisemite found an author he's in agrement with regarding Jews?

No, not at all. I am a believer of islam therefore I cannot be a supporter of "ethnic purification"(racism) as this was subsequent entry "ideology/doctrine" into the judeo/Christian exegesis by the errant people(may I say disbelievers really who turned the religion into political ideology to suit their ends..
http://radioislam.org/islam/english/boo ... hor4949361

I haven't written this all. This was documented by catholic French who later converted to Islam after his years of study..

Antisemitism is hatred felt for the Jewish people. This racist ideology has caused Jews to be killed, persecuted, exiled and threatened over the centuries.

Islam aims to bring justice to the world. Just as it denounces all kinds of racism, so it denounces antisemitism. Muslims criticize Atheist and radical Zionism, but defend the right of Jews to live in peace and security.
http://www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com/

Is Islam anti-semitic?
http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-abou ... 66078.html
http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-abou ... mitic.html
.

shafique wrote:So, let me ask again:
in what way is the JP comment about 'Islam' not a generalisation that is not based on any fact? Is it not just hype?

What comment would that be?

The first sentence of your quote. The clue was in the word Islam.

Hence:

They generalize specific incidents to reflect on all Muslims or all of Islam. When they are caught in the act of making up or distorting claims they engage in devious methods to attempt to conceal the evidence.

..
The Islamophobia of these folks is very real, and it is also strikingly similar to a previous generations' anti-Semitism.

Your 'devious methods' are funny. You're probably fuming because your hero Geller has similarly been caught out.. but cheer up, some of the banned gang will be along soon with a word of encouragement for you.

So, let me ask you again - in what way is the line from JP not a wild generalisation not based in fact?

Cheers,
Shafique

Oh, so this quote:

"What does it say about Islam if they adopt him as a hero," Samuels asked. "Can you imagine the Rabbinical Council of Europe glamorizing [Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring] Brevik in view of his hostility toward Muslims? We call on Muslim leaders to condemn the FOIE for this travesty?" Samuels said the FIOE was affiliated with Muslim Brotherhood and had its headquarters in London.

No wonder I couldn't figure out what you were talking about.

So what are you whining about, exactly? Not only has this Islamic group celebrated this Holocaust denier but many in the Islamic world have done the same.

It's a great question I think needs addressing.

Bear in mind this "complaint" is coming from an Antisemite who believes Judaism is segregationist and causes division in the world.

You didn't answer the question - in what way is this quote not attributing to 'Islam' what one group in Belgium has done?

Your post is one long 'devious method' to avoid this question. You've been found out again.

Cheer,

Shafique

You mean the Federation of Islamic Organisations in Europe?

It certainly doesn't look good when an Islamic ogranisation representing an entire continent is praising a Holocaust denier. I'd say people who wear their religion on their sleeve give it a bad name when they deny the Holocaust or promote others who are deniers. You're disagreeing?

I note you originally blamed the JP when they simply quoted someone they interviewed for the report - so the quote did not originate from the JP; they merely quoted someone else.

But I like the way you're unable to think using analogy. Keep up the good show.

eh, eh, eh - really.

I should have checked the link you gave. You've been a naughty boy yet again, haven't you?!!

Your quote in the OP was yet another example of a misleading, selective quote.

You deliberately missed out the highlighted sentence:

Samuels added that the FIOE’s praise of Garaudy brings into question “whether this group is representing Islam itself.


What does it say about Islam if they adopt him as a hero,” Samuels asked. “Can you imagine the Rabbinical Council of Europe glamorizing [Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring] Brevik in view of his hostility toward Muslims? We call on Muslim leaders to condemn the FOIE for this travesty?” Samuels said the FIOE was affiliated with Muslim Brotherhood and had its headquarters in London.

Samuels is questioning whether the group actually represents Islam. Quite a different meaning from how you presented his comment.

Can you not make one of your ideological points without misleading readers with invented/imagined information?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:My point is that this organisation (which you looked up) is morphed into 'Islam' by the JP post. This is hype and an example of the generalisation I quoted, and all your evasive posts since constitute 'devious methods' to conceal this hype.

Really? How? Please explain what this "morphing" means; how to identify morphing; and why you have an issue with it.

Here's the quote again:

"What does it say about Islam if they adopt him as a hero," Samuels asked. "Can you imagine the Rabbinical Council of Europe glamorizing [Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring] Brevik in view of his hostility toward Muslims? We call on Muslim leaders to condemn the FOIE for this travesty?" Samuels said the FIOE was affiliated with Muslim Brotherhood and had its headquarters in London.

The person quoted in the article doesn't say it says anything about Islam; he asks what it says - which could have various answers, including nothing. I note your lies lose focus of what the actual quote says, which probably explains why you didn't quote Samuels yourself. I also think what Samuels says next speaks volumes and you refusing to consider the quote in full is key. It seems you'd rather spin a quote as being hateful rather than address the logical point Samuels is making since it would involve self criticism and inner reflection. This shouldn't come as a surprise from a religious extremist Muslim who is obsessed with one terrorist attack carried out by a non-Muslim that accounts for less than 1 percent of terrorist deaths in Europe vs the thousands of terrorist attacks and deaths committed in Europe by his fellow coreligionists carrying out their acts of violence in the name of his religion.

shafique wrote:is morphed into 'Islam' by the JP post

I've already responded to this lie:

rayznack wrote:I note you originally blamed the JP when they simply quoted someone they interviewed for the report - so the quote did not originate from the JP; they merely quoted someone else.

You've been busted. Selectively quoting someone questioning whether these guys represent Islam, to look like he was blaming Islam.

The fault is with you, not JP. My error was to believe what you posted was accurate and not misleading.

Busted.

Can you not make one of your ideological points without misleading readers with invented/imagined information?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:You've been busted. Selectively quoting someone questioning whether these guys represent Islam, to look like he was blaming Islam.

Seems you were unable to read my last post; and no, there was no selective quoting in the OP.

shafique wrote:to look like he was blaming Islam.

Surely this is not coming from someone who has blamed Judaism for segregationism and claimed Jews are especially segregationist?

LoL. You're a funny Nazi. Not particularly sharp, but funny.

You missed out the crucial sentence I highlighted. You can't wriggle out of this one eh.

You are the one guilty of trying to generalise about Islam. Fail.

Cheers,
Shafique