East Jerusalem

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East Jerusalem Aug 24, 2010
Flying Dutchman has expressed some interesting views in the Peace Process resumed thread in relation to East Jerusalem.

For fanbois East Jerusalem poses a particularly thorny problem. This stems from the fact that the law is pretty clear on the status of East Jerusalem and it is extremely difficult to spin the fact Israel has violated international law.

In fact there is an explicit UN resolution which even the US did not vote against - 478.

In the other thread, there seems to be an aversion to even acknowledge the facts about East Jerusalem and an intense desire to state a point of view that the residents of East Jerusalem may not object to Israel refusing to relinquish their occupation. This is certainly a vaild and logical view for the Israelis who live in East Jerusalem - but for those non-Jewish residents who don't have citizenship - this seems to be a view that should come with some evidence.

But, let's start with the facts about East Jerusalem.

B'tselem have a section devoted to the injustices being carried out there - but this is the background in full:

Since East Jerusalem was annexed in 1967, the government of Israel’s primary goal in Jerusalem has been to create a demographic and geographic situation that will thwart any future attempt to challenge Israeli sovereignty over the city. To achieve this goal, the government has been taking actions to increase the number of Jews, and reduce the number of Palestinians, living in the city.

At the end of 2005, the population of Jerusalem stood at 723,700: 482,500 Jews (67 percent) and 241,200 Palestinians (33 percent). About 58 percent of the residents live on land that was annexed in 1967 (45 percent of whom are Jews, and 55 percent Palestinians). With the Palestinians having a higher growth rate than the Jews, Israel has used various methods to achieve its goal:

Physically isolating East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank, in part by building the separation barrier;


Discriminating in land expropriation, planning, and building, and demolition of houses;


Revoking residency and social benefits of Palestinians who stay abroad for at least seven years, or who are unable to prove that their center of life is in Jerusalem;

Unfairly dividing the budget between the two parts of the city, with harmful effects on infrastructure and services in East Jerusalem.

Israel’s policy gravely infringes the rights of residents of East Jerusalem and flagrantly breaches international law.

East Jerusalem is occupied territory. Therefore, it is subject, as is the rest of the West Bank, to the provisions of international humanitarian law that relate to occupied territory. The annexation of East Jerusalem breaches international law, which prohibits unilateral annexation. For this reason, the international community, including the United States, does not recognize the annexation of East Jerusalem.

http://www.btselem.org/English/Jerusalem/

Pretty categoric.

They also list all the injustices and give details in these sections.:

Legal status ; Separation Barrier in Jerusalem ; Family unification and child registration ; Revocation of residency ; Revocation of social rights ; Planning, building and expropriation of land ; Neglect of infrastructure and services ; Data on revocation of residency ; Data on demolition of houses built without permits ; Data on land expropriation ; Data on building starts.


Now - I would indeed be most interested to hear whether B'tselem could have got all the above so wrong, and read what evidence there is to support such a view.

In the peace negotiations, the Palestinians are quite rightly going to start from the point of view that UN resolutions on East Jerusalem are followed. Israel is going to try keep East Jerusalem. Whether they use FD's excuses/justifications remains to be seen - but at least in this thread we can read and compare the facts given above with the counter-arguments that FD thinks he has.

Cheers,
Shafique

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Re: East Jerusalem Aug 24, 2010
It is worth highlighting the fact that much of what has been annexed by Israel is actually historically part of the West Bank - which partly explains why the UN refuses to condone this act of theft:

Legal status of East Jerusalem and its residents

Between 1948 and June of 1967, Jerusalem was divided in two: West Jerusalem, which covered an area of about 38 square kilometers was under Israeli control, and East Jerusalem, which contained an area of some 6 sq. km, was ruled by Jordan. In June 1967, following the 1967 War, Israel annexed some 70 sq. km to the municipal boundaries of West Jerusalem, and imposed Israeli law there. These annexed territories included not only the part of Jerusalem that had been under Jordanian rule, but also an additional 64 square kilometers, most of which had belonged to 28 villages in the West Bank, and part of which belonged to the municipalities of Bethlehem and Beit Jala. Following their annexation, the area of West Jerusalem tripled, and Jerusalem became the largest city in Israel.

Prior to 1967, therefore, most of the area comprising present-day Jerusalem was not part of the city (West or East), but rather part of the West Bank.


The new borders, set by a committee headed by General Rehavam Ze'evi, then assistant to the head of the Operations Branch of the Israel Defense Forces' General Staff, were approved by Israel's government.

In setting the borders, the committee's objective was to strengthen Israeli sovereignty over the city by creating a Jewish majority. Thus, demographic considerations were decisive, and planning considerations were only of secondary importance. In order to ensure a significant Jewish majority, the primary consideration was to prevent the inclusion of heavily-populated Palestinian areas within Jerusalem. Whereas several Palestinian villages were placed outside the city, some of their lands were included within the city's new borders, examples being Beit Iksa and Beit Hanina in the north, and detached areas lying in the municipalities of Bethlehem and Beit Sahur in the south. Villages and neighborhoods were, therefore, divided; one part remained in the West Bank, and the other part was annexed by Israel.

After the annexation, Israel conducted a census in these areas and granted permanent residency status to residents in the annexed areas present at the time the census was taken. Persons not present in the city for whatever reason forever lost their right to reside in Jerusalem. Permanent residents are permitted, if they wish and meet certain conditions, to receive Israeli citizenship. These conditions include swearing allegiance to the State, proving that they are not citizens of any other country, and showing some knowledge of Hebrew. For political reasons, most of the residents do not request Israeli citizenship. . Setting the municipal boundary to run through neighborhoods and villages also created a distinction between Palestinians regarding their rights, since residents living in the unannexed area continued to be residents of the West Bank, and were subject to military rule.

Palestinians hold the status of "permanent resident" of the State of Israel. This is the same status granted to foreign citizens who have freely chosen to come to Israel and want to live there. Israel treats Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem as immigrants who live in their homes at the beneficence of the authorities and not by right. The authorities maintain this policy although these Palestinians were born in Jerusalem, lived in the city, and have no other home. Treating these Palestinians as foreigners who entered Israel is astonishing, since it was Israel that entered East Jerusalem in 1967.

Permanent residency differs substantially from citizenship. The primary right granted to permanent residents is to live and work in Israel without the necessity of special permits. Permanent residents are also entitled to social benefits provided by the National Insurance Institute and to health insurance. Permanent residents have the right to vote in local elections, but not in elections to Knesset [Parliament]. Unlike citizenship, permanent residency is only passed on to the holder's children where the holder meets certain conditions. A permanent resident with a non-resident spouse must submit, on behalf of the spouse, a request for family unification. Only citizens are granted the right to return to Israel at any time.


http://www.btselem.org/english/Jerusale ... Status.asp
shafique
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Re: East Jerusalem Aug 24, 2010
I feel so honoured, a whole thread dedicated for me!
:D :D :D
Flying Dutchman
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Re: East Jerusalem Aug 24, 2010
You're most welcome - I find sunlight to be a most effective disinfectant. :)

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: East Jerusalem Aug 24, 2010
B'tselem has listed the land stolen by Israel between 1968 and 1991 (in addition to the 70,500 in 1967):
http://www.btselem.org/english/Jerusale ... istics.asp

The totals are
Amount of land taken (in dunams) 23,378
Number of housing units 44,610
Number of residents 176,647


Policy of discrimination in planning, building and land expropriation
http://www.btselem.org/english/Jerusale ... Policy.asp
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Re: East Jerusalem Aug 24, 2010
shafique wrote:I find sunlight to be a most effective disinfectant. :)


Extreme fanatics find other opinions bactaria that need to be exterminated, and find it funny. :cry:

Not cool.
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Re: East Jerusalem Aug 25, 2010
You have to remember that you're lower than bacteria, Kuffar.
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Re: East Jerusalem Aug 25, 2010
Loons hate the sunlight of facts on shining on their beliefs!

You can almost hear the gnashing of teeth.....

"Grrh, now that it's highlighted that East Jerusalem is actually mostly West Bank territory that was renamed 'Jerusalem' by the Israelis, how can we continue with our arguments... I know, let's ignore the facts and name call instead"

LOL :lol:

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: East Jerusalem Aug 29, 2010
Flying Dutchman wrote:Jerusalem and international law has been discussed in numerous threads. I have nothing new to add and donot intend to repeat myself dozens of times constantly, despite the many distortions and twists presented.

philosophy-dubai/islam-and-the-west-t43028.html#p345304

So the response is a non-response and an unsubstantiated claim of 'many distortions and twists'.

Disappointed, but not surprised at this response.

Perhaps others can see where the distortions and twists are in the facts stated above?

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: East Jerusalem Sep 01, 2010
The map illustrates the extent of the issue here - note that the area between the two red lines was West Bank territory before 1967. The Israelis renamed this East Jerusalem and annexed it (illegally).

Image
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