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Misery Called Life wrote:

rudeboy wrote:osama bin ladin & taliban are the creation of CIA and FBI to fight off the soviet monster in afghanistan. cia and fbi created these groups because soviets in afghanistan were a threat to USA national security :S u moth(#$#$#$#s u r country is thousand miles away how the effing heck is a soviet takeover in afghanistan gonna effect ur national secuirty.

I guarantee you if not for the USSR debacle in Afghanistan, the world would be bowing down to USSR right now. Everyone blames the US for the formation of the Terrorism in religions name.....But look at it this way, Due to the Afghan debacle Moscow had to fight a war unsupportable by the government that eventually led to the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire. If only the US had to follow up with the mujhadeen post that war and not ignore them today’s problem would never have arisen. Today Central Europe can breathe easy and feel liberated because of the success of US Secret Service at that time.
It the corruption of leaders in Pakistan and elsewhere that has let this situation deteriorate so much….

lol i dont see a much difference in bowing down to USSR and USA. today it is USA. i blame US policies for creating mini monsters. am sure USSR would have done the same. this is the dirty game they play. when they want someone to do their dirty work they get the taliban involved. why didnt USA attack USSR in afghanistan? i guess they were scared .

central europe countries could have solved their problems themselves they didnt need USA interferring.

yeh have to agree leaders of pakistan are in the USA pockets but then again who isnt

Misery Called Life wrote:I guarantee you if not for the USSR debacle in Afghanistan, the world would be bowing down to USSR right now. Everyone blames the US for the formation of the Terrorism in religions name.....But look at it this way, Due to the Afghan debacle Moscow had to fight a war unsupportable by the government that eventually led to the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire. If only the US had to follow up with the mujhadeen post that war and not ignore them today’s problem would never have arisen. Today Central Europe can breathe easy and feel liberated because of the success of US Secret Service at that time.
It the corruption of leaders in Pakistan and elsewhere that has let this situation deteriorate so much….

MCL leave your propaganda for your internal use. Don't watch Fox News and CNN before dinner. You could have digestive disorder then.

I've never supported Soviet Union in the invasion to Afganistan. US called them "Evil Empire".
Now US does much worse things killing innocent ppl. in 2 countries.

About Central/Eastern Europe their problems are only starting. US gave a few millions dollars to destabilize everything there and go away.
Baltic countries, Hungary, Ukraine are nearly bankrupts. The others beg from IMF.

Red Chief wrote:

Misery Called Life wrote:I guarantee you if not for the USSR debacle in Afghanistan, the world would be bowing down to USSR right now. Everyone blames the US for the formation of the Terrorism in religions name.....But look at it this way, Due to the Afghan debacle Moscow had to fight a war unsupportable by the government that eventually led to the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire. If only the US had to follow up with the mujhadeen post that war and not ignore them today’s problem would never have arisen. Today Central Europe can breathe easy and feel liberated because of the success of US Secret Service at that time.
It the corruption of leaders in Pakistan and elsewhere that has let this situation deteriorate so much….

MCL leave your propaganda for your internal use. Don't watch Fox News and CNN before dinner. You could have digestive disorder then.

I've never supported Soviet Union in the invasion to Afganistan. US called them "Evil Empire".
Now US does much worse things killing innocent ppl. in 2 countries.

About Central/Eastern Europe their problems are only starting. US gave a few millions dollars to destabilize everything there and go away.
Baltic countries, Hungary, Ukraine are nearly bankrupts. The others beg from IMF.

couldnt agree more. USA is the evil on earth. it can do WHATEVER it wants and no dares questions them. they can attack innocent civilians using drones and they can get away with it.

they can sell their technology and nuclear bomb to anyone. but if someone does that they are evil lol

Red Chief wrote:

Misery Called Life wrote:I guarantee you if not for the USSR debacle in Afghanistan, the world would be bowing down to USSR right now. Everyone blames the US for the formation of the Terrorism in religions name.....But look at it this way, Due to the Afghan debacle Moscow had to fight a war unsupportable by the government that eventually led to the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire. If only the US had to follow up with the mujhadeen post that war and not ignore them today’s problem would never have arisen. Today Central Europe can breathe easy and feel liberated because of the success of US Secret Service at that time.
It the corruption of leaders in Pakistan and elsewhere that has let this situation deteriorate so much….

MCL leave your propaganda for your internal use. Don't watch Fox News and CNN before dinner. You could have digestive disorder then.

I've never supported Soviet Union in the invasion to Afganistan. US called them "Evil Empire".
Now US does much worse things killing innocent ppl. in 2 countries.

About Central/Eastern Europe their problems are only starting. US gave a few millions dollars to destabilize everything there and go away.
Baltic countries, Hungary, Ukraine are nearly bankrupts. The others beg from IMF.

Put a sock in it RC, this ain't no propaganda!

You know it's very easy to toe the middle line and just crib and rant.

Fact is there is a serious situation unfolding in Pakistan, Afghanistan, the entire region is destabilizing rapidly, then there are the Kurds......and this will have repercussions for the rest of the globe. (Did I mention Africa? Lets leave that for some other time) I'd like your learned opinion on what you think should be the way forward? Should we just sit and mope over the past or try and secure our futures? While Russia is occupied with Alaska, Georgia and some anti missile shield in Poland...at least the USA is trying to diffuse the situation. Albeit every time they've interfered only to get burnt!

BTW Ukraine does have a hot Prime Minister

Fact is there is a serious situation unfolding in Pakistan, Afghanistan, the entire region is destabilizing rapidly, then there are the Kurds......and this will have repercussions for the rest of the globe. (Did I mention Africa? Lets leave that for some other time) I'd like your learned opinion on what you think should be the way forward? Should we just sit and mope over the past or try and secure our futures? While Russia is occupied with Alaska, Georgia and some anti missile shield in Poland...at least the USA is trying to diffuse the situation. Albeit every time they've interfered only to get burnt!

MCL-quote]

Oh pleazzzzzze; may be you shouldn't write this late..

(or may be I should stop reading this early..? )

Misery Called Life wrote: While Russia is occupied with Alaska, Georgia and some anti missile shield in Poland...at least the USA is trying to diffuse the situation.

How ignorant you are, I can't believe! US occupied Alaska, it was a lease hold for 99 years from Russia and it was over about 50 years ago !!! Even Brits returned Hong Kong to China but US didn't...

Where is Poland with that freacking shield, the great geographer? Near Russia.
How far from US is Serbia located and what was the threat for US from this small country to cover Serbian cities with bombs? I don't speak about their dirty deeds in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Living in Soviet Union I thought that Russian propaganda was dullest but US one is a real brainwashing.

^^^^
You've had your say....fair enough!

This thread is about a potentially catastrophic situation developing in the subcontinent...and when one thinks Pakistan you have to bring USA in the picture. I'd like your thoughts on that (if u have any).

This ain't propaganda and I'd certainly not mind altering my opinion if you can make a convincing argument. It's funny the minute someone says something u don't like to hear, you pull out the propaganda card!

You wanna debate Russia? Fine, start another thread, I'll get ma jug o beer, u fill up on ur vodka and we can sit an debate all you want....

I don't think that current situation in Pakistan could be stabilized without fixing situation in the neighbouring occupied Afghanistan because there are more than twice population of Pashto people in Pakistan against Afghanistan.
That's why I said that USA was and is involved.

rudeboy wrote:

Red Chief wrote:Why can't I find any data about US casualties in Afganistan?

cos the media only wants u to see what they want to display.

Absolute rubbish.

http://icasualties.org/oef/

There is also a link for the same data about Iraq.

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/giraldi.php?articleid=13490
Afghanistan has been the graveyard of empires ever since Alexander the Great had trouble crossing the Khyber Pass in 326 B.C.

The U.S. will continue to get burned until they pull out. There has never been any way to control this region. Political de-stabilisation and finance of subversive organisations gets a toehold, but it soon turns to ratsh*t afterwards as the U.S. have found out. Blaming madrassars in NW Pak for turning out terrorists is all fine (and true) but this region has always been lawless. Blaming Pakistan for it is equally silly.

Speedhump wrote:http://www.antiwar.com/orig/giraldi.php?articleid=13490
Afghanistan has been the graveyard of empires ever since Alexander the Great had trouble crossing the Khyber Pass in 326 B.C.

The U.S. will continue to get burned until they pull out. There has never been any way to control this region. Political de-stabilisation and finance of subversive organisations gets a toehold, but it soon turns to ratsh*t afterwards as the U.S. have found out. Blaming madrassars in NW Pak for turning out terrorists is all fine (and true) but this region has always been lawless. Blaming Pakistan for it is equally silly.

WHY are we discussing indian bombings and pakistan in Dubai politics? why dont i hear u ppl say troll now

troll

There is definitely trolling if we are going to get more Indian and Pakistani bashing going on, like we did some weeks ago with all those ridiculous threads.

If there is an interesting discussion going on, with actual discussion and not mudslinging or propaganda - then who cares... at least it still fits under politics talk.

rudeboy wrote:

Speedhump wrote:http://www.antiwar.com/orig/giraldi.php?articleid=13490
Afghanistan has been the graveyard of empires ever since Alexander the Great had trouble crossing the Khyber Pass in 326 B.C.

The U.S. will continue to get burned until they pull out. There has never been any way to control this region. Political de-stabilisation and finance of subversive organisations gets a toehold, but it soon turns to ratsh*t afterwards as the U.S. have found out. Blaming madrassars in NW Pak for turning out terrorists is all fine (and true) but this region has always been lawless. Blaming Pakistan for it is equally silly.

WHY are we discussing indian bombings and pakistan in Dubai politics? why dont i hear u ppl say troll now

Simple, regional affairs which affect the Middle East. Not rape in NY

Speedhump wrote:

rudeboy wrote:

Speedhump wrote:http://www.antiwar.com/orig/giraldi.php?articleid=13490
Afghanistan has been the graveyard of empires ever since Alexander the Great had trouble crossing the Khyber Pass in 326 B.C.

The U.S. will continue to get burned until they pull out. There has never been any way to control this region. Political de-stabilisation and finance of subversive organisations gets a toehold, but it soon turns to ratsh*t afterwards as the U.S. have found out. Blaming madrassars in NW Pak for turning out terrorists is all fine (and true) but this region has always been lawless. Blaming Pakistan for it is equally silly.

WHY are we discussing indian bombings and pakistan in Dubai politics? why dont i hear u ppl say troll now

Simple, regional affairs which affect the Middle East. Not rape in NY

india is not in the middle east. nor is katrina kaif any ways going to effect the regional affairs of the me

what is this forum?? do ppl make up the rules as they go along?????:D

sorry all I hear now is blah blah blah....

Speedhump wrote:sorry all I hear now is blah blah blah....

its ok humpty dumpty i understand u had a great fall and all u hear now is blah blah blah

I only wonder if Pakistani government can't control big part of their own territory and some mujahedin on this territory or has a pocket Talliban to permanently suck money from US as they used to do in 1980s and from 2001 till now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/world ... ted=1&_r=1

Crazy situation indeed.....
Quite evidently there is no will, not from the army which is pre occupied on the Afghan border as well as the India border.
This is gonna be a long drawn battle. Hope Mr Obama has what it takes.
Personally I think the Bush administration erred by moving into Iraq too soon. They should've cleaned up the mess in Afghanistan throughly, and only then moved to Iraq......The mis-adventures of teh US in Iraq, allowed the taliban to regroup. Offcourse with active support from the ISI.

I don't know why they needed Afghanistan at all - no benefits from that. Why didn't they place Osama in Iraq at first?

Red Chief wrote:I don't know why they needed Afghanistan at all - no benefits from that. Why didn't they place Osama in Iraq at first?

Thankfully they did'nt place Osama somewhere in the Arabian Peninsular

Everyone knows that NW Pakistan and Afghanistan are the easiest places in the world to hide and make resistance style defence against invasion.

Red Chief wrote:I don't know why they needed Afghanistan at all - no benefits from that. Why didn't they place Osama in Iraq at first?

Probally the same reason russia wanted it for ?

Although OBL would have been a much better excuse to get at Iraqi oil than WMD, Boy that takes the lamest excuse ever award.

desertdudeshj wrote:

Red Chief wrote:I don't know why they needed Afghanistan at all - no benefits from that. Why didn't they place Osama in Iraq at first?

Probally the same reason russia wanted it for ?

Although OBL would have been a much better excuse to get at Iraqi oil than WMD, Boy that takes the lamest excuse ever award.

I think Russia wanted it as a buffer zone to secure their southwestern satellite states. That was why they wanted it before in the late C19th and early C20th, to defend their Caspian Sea territories against possible British invasion from India.

Put Bin Laden in Iraq and the tanks would have just rolled right over him

Speedhump wrote:Put Bin Laden in Iraq and the tanks would have just rolled right over him

???

Sorry, I meant that Iraq was easy terrain to hunt down terrorists

desertdudeshj wrote:

Red Chief wrote:I don't know why they needed Afghanistan at all - no benefits from that. Why didn't they place Osama in Iraq at first?

Probally the same reason russia wanted it for ?

If you have some problem in economy the easiest way to divert ppl.'s attention is a small triumphant war: Afghanistan, Falkland lslands, then again Afghanistan+Iraq.

Nobody even in Russia was and is able to understand the real reason.

Misery Called Life wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/world/asia/24pstan.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Crazy situation indeed.....
Quite evidently there is no will, not from the army which is pre occupied on the Afghan border as well as the India border.

As far as I understand from the article the US money is going to train Pakistani army on the Indian border. At the other hand Mumbai's terrorists were coming from "uncontroled" camps in Pakistan. 10% from 1 billion is also good money.

Everybody is happy!

Red Chief wrote:

Misery Called Life wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/world/asia/24pstan.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Crazy situation indeed.....
Quite evidently there is no will, not from the army which is pre occupied on the Afghan border as well as the India border.

As far as I understand from the article the US money is going to train Pakistani army on the Indian border. At the other hand Mumbai's terrorists were coming from "uncontroled" camps in Pakistan. 10% from 1 billion is also good money.

Everybody is happy!

Precisely.....As I said earlier, the civilian government in Pakistan has to be strenghtned, only then will normalcy prevail. Can't believe a 500,000 strong army is struglling against a handful of terrorists in comparison.

RC read some of the user comments from the above article. Quite fascinating!

Misery Called Life wrote: Can't believe a 500,000 strong army is struglling against a handful of terrorists in comparison.

1) It looks like India is the only threat for Pakistan, but Taliban was Pakistan's own creature. By the way India is a few times stronger than Pakistan in terms of military arsenal.

2) We will look how the strongest army in the World will win against those "small bunch of terrorists" (if US really wants to do it).