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event horizon · Jul 19, 2011

Moderate Hamas' cleric has some interesting thoughts on the Jews:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L0FrInZ ... ideo_title

Bethsmum · Jul 19, 2011

I was just watching a programme on BBC2 entitled 'The Life of Muhammed'. It's a 3 parter and this was the second part.
Muhammed was a bit of a scrapper in his time. Ostricised by his own tribe and sent away into the desert where he spent his life fighting everyone. The programme covered the massacre of a Jewish tribe.

A consensus Muslim account of the massacre of the Qurayzah has emerged as converyed by classical Muslim scholars of hadith (putative utterances and acts of Muhammad, recorded by pious Muslim transmitters), biographers of Muhammad’s life (especially Ibn Ishaq), jurists, and historians.[2] This narrative is summarized as follows: Alleged to have aided the forces of Muhammad’s enemies in violation of a prior pact, the Qurayzah were subsequently isolated and besieged. Twice the Qurayzah made offers to surrender and depart from their stronghold, leaving behind their land and property. Initially they asked to take one camel load of possessions per person, but when Muhammad refused this request, the Qurayzah asked to be allowed to depart without any property, taking with them only their families. However, Muhammad insisted that the Qurayzah surrender unconditionally and subject themselves to his judgment. Compelled to surrender, the Qurayzah were led to Medina. The men, with their hands pinioned behind their backs, were put in a court, while the women and children were said to have been put into a separate court. A third (and final) appeal for leniency for the Qurayzah was made to Muhammad by their tribal allies the Aus. Muhammad again declined, and instead he appointed as arbiter Sa’d Mu’adh from the Aus, who soon rendered his concise verdict: The men were to be put to death, the women and children sold into slavery, the spoils to be divided among the Muslims.

You can't really blame the Muslims when this is the example they are set.

shafique · Jul 19, 2011

Bethsmum · Jul 19, 2011

I feel quite sorry for Shafique really. What an example to be set by his leader. It seems he may have been a bit of a story teller too. What's all this about being transported to Jerusalem in the wink of an eye? And climbing up some stairs to meet all the other prophets? :drunken:

Give me a pint of what he was having! LOL

shafique · Jul 19, 2011

Hey, don't shoot the messenger - I presume you don't think eh condones the message in the Memri specials he posts... don't blame me for what some of his fellow American Christians have to say about Jews.

Cheers,
Shafique

Bethsmum · Jul 19, 2011

I'll help you along, more hate filled messages by your mates.

shafique · Jul 19, 2011

Bethsmum · Jul 19, 2011

Poor kids!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLIdxF-G ... re=related

shafique · Jul 19, 2011

Bethsmum · Jul 19, 2011

What's your fasination with the Westboro Church Shafique? I suppose it's a change from you googling white blonde women.

shafique · Jul 19, 2011

I thought this thread was about videos of people who hate jews.. the American Christian group fits the bill dosn't it?

Cheers,
Shafique

Bethsmum · Jul 19, 2011

shafique wrote:I thought this thread was about videos of people who hate jews.. the American Christian group fits the bill dosn't it?

Cheers,
Shafique

That explains your eagerness to post I guess.

shafique · Jul 19, 2011

What is your excuse then?

Cheers,
Shafique

Bethsmum · Jul 19, 2011

shafique wrote:What is your excuse then?

Cheers,
Shafique

To be your worst nightmare I hope.

shafique · Jul 19, 2011

How's that going for you?

Cheers,
Shafique

Bethsmum · Jul 19, 2011

shafique wrote:How's that going for you?

Cheers,
Shafique

I'm still practising but far from perfect yet. I think I'm more of a bad dream so far.

shafique · Jul 19, 2011

Well, you'll have to do much better than posting Memri specials and asking why I posted videos by American Christians. 10/10 for effort though.

Cheers,
Shafique

Bethsmum · Jul 19, 2011

shafique wrote::D

Well, you'll have to do much better than posting Memri specials and asking why I posted videos by American Christians. 10/10 for effort though.

Cheers,
Shafique

God loves a tryer.

event horizon · Jul 19, 2011

Here's a short bio of the cleric in the OP:

Yunis Al Astal (arabic: يونس الأسطل, born 1956) is a preacher and Hamas member of the Palestinian Legislative Council for the area of Khan Yunis[1][2] He writes as a journalist on topics like Islamic law (fiqh), sociology and politics.

So a high ranking Hamas official who is a religious scholar by trade is compared to lawyers and other assorted Westboro loudmouths.

shafique · Jul 19, 2011

A Memri special is compared to some of your fellow American Christian fundamentalists. They probably agree with you that it's ok to support those calling for women to be killed for having an abortion - aren't they?

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman · Jul 19, 2011

Hamas is evil.

Bethsmum · Jul 19, 2011

a high ranking Hamas official who is a religious scholar by trade

That's very worrying.

event horizon · Jul 19, 2011

shafique wrote:A Memri special is compared to some of your fellow American Christian fundamentalists. They probably agree with you that it's ok to support those calling for women to be killed for having an abortion - aren't they?

Cheers,
Shafique

Actually they don't since the Westboro people advocate non-violence. But it's desperate to compare a high ranking Hamas official, religious scholar and politician (and his supporters) to attention seekers who spend their days living on a compound.

Memri special? As I've told Desert numerous times by now, please offer an alternative to memri owned and operated by Muslims intent on stigmatizing extremist views. Yes, I know, that means that if you were actually interested in opposing mainstream extremist views in the Muslim world you would have to keep looking for a very, very long time.

I'll be happy to use any such website least of all because we wouldn't get people who attack the messenger and obfuscate like what happens when Memri videos are posted.

shafique · Jul 19, 2011

Loons telling people that Memri specials represent 'mainstream Islam' etc is as credible as the American Christians featured in the vids above.

I mean, imagine a Moooslim saying that the Westboro folk represented 'mainstream American Christianity' :shock:

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman · Jul 19, 2011

Hamas clerics as OP are mainstream, as shown in the latest elections.

shafique · Jul 19, 2011

I guess you believe Fox News is not an oxy-moron too?

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman · Jul 19, 2011

shafique wrote:I guess you believe Fox News is not an oxy-moron too?

Cheers,
Shafique

I believe hamas clerics in their native tongue

shafique · Jul 19, 2011

Do you believe in fairies too?

But you are not being consistent - in other posts you've argued that Hamas aren't as popular as they once were and are terrorising Gazans, now you are arguing that some clerics (not Politicians) are mainstream because Hamas politicians won elections when they stood against corrupt Fatah politicians.

Hmmm. The American Christians are more credible that this position.

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman · Jul 19, 2011

Now you are blaming me for hamas being totalitarian dictators???

event horizon · Jul 19, 2011

Shafique's really grasping at straws here. We see a highly respected Hamas cleric who is saying that Jews have been gathered in Palestine so they will be eliminated and the best shafique can come up with is posting videos of Westboro Baptist people.

(I'm also fairly positive DD will come in this thread to castigate shafique for using a 'whataboutery' argument)

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