Chomsky's Lies?

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Re: Chomsky's Lies? Jul 04, 2010
I see young loon is having another go at Chomsky, this time using Memri videos! Now that IS funny.

Sigh.

Perhaps he's not happy with the score being Chomsky 3, eh 0 and wants to go for a German score line? :shock:

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Re: Chomsky's lies? Jul 04, 2010
“Even on the rare occasions when Mr. Chomsky is dealing with facts and not with fantasies,
he exaggerates by a factor of, plus or minus, four or five.”
- Walter Laqueur
(The New Republic, March 24, 1982)“


If you go through the link, you would see numerous half truths, distortions and outright lies the author exposes.
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Re: Chomsky's lies? Jul 04, 2010
So, the 3 instances YOU chose to look at eh and which transpired that Chomsky wasn't lying - was that just bad choice on you part?

I reckon we could get to 200 - 0, but as it stands

Chomsky 3, eh 0. (i.e. you've so far been 100% wrong)

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Re: Chomsky's lies? Jul 04, 2010
The Lie: “If 2-2½ million people… have been systematically slaughtered by a band of murderous thugs [then intervention is sought]… [But not] if the figure of those killed were, say, less by a factor of 100 – that is, 25,000 people… [or] if the deaths in Cambodia were not the result of systematic slaughter and starvation organized by the state…”37

The Truth: No honest observer thought that only 25,000 died under the Khmer Rouge or that
the mass deaths were not the result of systematic slaughter and starvation. A UN investigation
reported 2-3 million dead, while UNICEF estimated 3 million dead.38 Even the Khmer Rouge
acknowledged 2 million deaths – which they attributed to the Vietnamese invasion.39


37 After the Cataclysm (South End Press, 1979), pp138-9.
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Re: Chomsky's Lies? Jul 04, 2010
eh - so as to not embarrass you further when I look up Chomsky's references, can I ask whether you checked the reference in regards to the 25,000?

If you did, please post it in full and in context (the ... ... in the quote are awfully suspicious)

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Re: Chomsky's lies? Jul 04, 2010
Oh dear.

Chomsky 4, eh 0.


event horizon wrote:The Lie: “If 2-2½ million people… have been systematically slaughtered by a band of murderous thugs [then intervention is sought]… [But not] if the figure of those killed were, say, less by a factor of 100 – that is, 25,000 people… [or] if the deaths in Cambodia were not the result of systematic slaughter and starvation organized by the state…”37

The Truth: No honest observer thought that only 25,000 died ...



Well, the book is available on Google Books and Chomsky isn't lying:

Full quote:
If 2-2½ million people, about a 1/3 of the population, have been systematically slaughtered by a band of murderous thugs who have taken over the government, then McGovern is willing to consider military intervention. We presume that he would not have made this proposal if the figure of those killed were, say, less by a factor of 100 – that is, 25,000 people -though this would be bad enough. Nor would he have been able to propose the extreme measure if the deaths in Cambodia were not the result of systematic slaughter and starvation organized by the state but rather attributable in large measure to peasant revenge, undisciplined military units out of government control, starvation and disease that are direct consequences of the US war, or other such factors."



No lie, just a valid presumption. eh punked again.

Do you want to go for 5 -0?

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Re: Chomsky's lies? Jul 05, 2010
if the deaths in Cambodia were not the result of systematic slaughter and starvation organized by the state but rather attributable in large measure to peasant revenge, undisciplined military units out of government control, starvation and disease that are direct consequences of the US war, or other such factors."

Wow snowflake.

That's far from a punking.

Chomsky argues throughout the chapter that the massacres in Cambodia were instances of 'peasant revenge'. He also goes on to downplay the evidence that millions died in Cambodia - questioning the now accepted figures that a significant fraction of the Cambodian population was decimated by the Khmer Rouge.

Elsewhere, Chomsky said the massacres were comparable to those committed after the liberation of France, where 30-40 thousand were killed rather than Nazi brutality where millions died.

The 'presumption' wasn't a rhetorical question if the massacres described by McGovern were inflated, as you have tried to spin it. It was Chomsky's belief that they were.
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Re: Chomsky's Lies? Jul 06, 2010
Do you want to go for 5-0, or is your 100% record enough to show that you cannot, after all, show that Chomsky lies?

The point is now clear your quote deliberately left out the words 'we presume' and presented something that was not a lie as a lie.

(BTW Kudos if you read the whole chapter, I've only managed to read about half of it and check some of the references Chomsky gives - pretty meticulous stuff. Puts Bob Spencer to shame. Chomsky makes his points very well and contrasts spin with evidence. I understand why you don't like him. ;) )

I'm also reminded of this reviewer on Amazon responding to an anti-Chomsky rant (and thought it appropriate to post here):

This review is useless for several reasons.
1) It doesn't cite a single actual reference to the work in question.
2) It doesn't cite its own claims (which refugee reports exactly did it write off? The ones reporting the massive starvation caused by intense bombing by US bombers between 1970 and 1975?)
3) It's the only thing that really fits the author's description of being "written as a savage and bitter satire of professional academics-cum-polemicists".

I'm inclined to believe that either the [reviewer] didn't read the book or read it quite poorly, as nearly all of his points can be refuted by simply reading the work in question. Chomsky never condones the Khmer Rouge. This book is not even ABOUT the Khmer Rouge, necessarily. It's about the American Mass Media's handling of the situation which, in my opinion, is expertly handled




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Re: Chomsky's lies? Jul 06, 2010
Chomsky said the massacres carried out by the Khmer Rouge - where over one million Cambodians perished, countless others tortured, displaced, etc - was comparable to the liberation of France, which resulted in the deaths of 30-40 thousand people, not Nazi atrocities.
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Re: Chomsky's Lies? Jul 07, 2010
So, do you want to go for 5-0 or do you need time to dig out another misquote of Chomsky?

I refer you to the review I quoted above as it appears you too haven't actually read the book you're pontificating about.

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Re: Chomsky's lies? Jul 08, 2010
event horizon wrote:Chomsky said the massacres carried out by the Khmer Rouge - where over one million Cambodians perished, countless others tortured, displaced, etc - was comparable to the liberation of France, which resulted in the deaths of 30-40 thousand people, not Nazi atrocities.


What part of the above did you not understand?
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Re: Chomsky's Lies? Jul 08, 2010
Ha ha.

So, do you want to go for 5-0 or do you need more time to invent some quotes that you want to attribute to Chomsky?

Are you a masochist, or a secret Chomsky fan - can't quite figure you out.

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Re: Chomsky's lies? Jul 08, 2010
I don't understand what's funny - that you're predictably dumb or that Chomsky is quoted as claiming that the massacres in Cambodia are comparable to the ones during/after the liberation of France, not the atrocities carried out by the Nazis ?
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Re: Chomsky's Lies? Jul 08, 2010
What's funny is that you've so far produced 4 quotes from Chomsky which you initially claimed to be lies and turn out to be not lies when we see the full quotes.

I'm asking whether you want to go for 5-0 now, and whether you're not actually a secret fan of Chomsky because you've been exposing the slurs against him.

So, do you want to go for 5-0 or do you need more time? As for what Chomsky wrote in the book from 1979 - I have already commented that it appears that you haven't actually read the book. But even your latest insinuations don't amount to actual quotes which show Chomsky is lying - all the points I've read on this subject are quite well made and don't constitute lies - but I suspect you're just a secret Chomsky admirer. C'mon fess up. ;)

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Re: Chomsky's lies? Feb 06, 2011
The Lie: "The US and Britain... killed maybe 100,000 people [in the occupation of Iraq] by last October [2004]..."

The Truth: A 2004 study by anti-war researchers blamed the Iraq war for 100,000 deaths. It counted both enemy killings and allied killings; counted both combatants and civilians; and included deaths from crime, accidents, heart attacks, strokes, infections, etc. And independent analysis of its figures suggested that 39,000 had been killed by either side and that the rest had died from other causes.

http://www.paulbogdanor.com/chomsky/200chomskylies.pdf

I see you still don't want to address Noam's comparison of the Allied liberation of France to Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge.
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