Can We Call It Islamic Terrorism?

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Can we call it Islamic terrorism? Sep 29, 2011
A timely article looking at a recent debate that took place on an Arabic program. The discussion was whether al-Qaeda, etc are 'Islamic terrorists' and if their Western counterparts could be similarly seen as 'Christian terrorists' or even Christian fundamentalists.

Since Brievik and Tim McVeigh never met the criteria one of debaters established for determining if one is a religious terrorist, the panelists dismissed that either was a religious terrorist or fundamentalist:

A debate is taking place across the political, academic, and religious spectrum about whether acts of terrorism committed by Muslims should be called Islamic Terrorism. I've recently attended conferences where I've heard alleged experts state that it should not be. If terrorism committed by the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka is not called Hindu Terrorism, they argue, and if the terrorism of Norwegian Anders Breivik is not Christian Terrorism, why are acts of terror committed by Muslims called Islamic Terrorism?

It is a good question deserving a thoughtful answer which was given, in my opinion, by Rashid and Middle East Forum director Magdi Khalil in this recent Arabic program. Rashid noted that terrorism could be described as religious terrorism if it fulfilled the following four criteria:

1. The individuals carrying out the operation were devoted to their religion.
2. These individuals used religious texts to justify their operation.
3. The individuals carried out their operation to achieve religious objectives.
4. Religious leaders supported the operation and praised those who carried it out.

Rashid and Magdi then applied these four criteria to the perpetrators of 9/11, the Oklahoma Bombing, and the Norwegian Massacre. In his final testament, suicide pilot Muhammad Atta mentioned three times in four short pages that he would soon be meeting the virgins of paradise promised him by his prophet Muhammad. In his justification for 9/11, Osama bin Ladin did not inform his fellow Muslims it was intended to punish an imperialistic, political enemy. He did say that it was a blow against the rayyis al-kuffar, a religious expression meaning the leader of the infidels. The writings of bin Ladin, as well as Ayman al-Zawahiri and other al-Qaeda Sharia or religious leaders are filled with references to the Koran, the Hadith, and early Islamic history to justify their strategy. The 1500 page manifesto of Anders Breivik, in contrast, does not mention the teachings of Jesus or the Bible a single time. His only reference to Christianity is a generic one in which he envisions a Christian Europe being changed to a Muslim one. And Timothy McVeigh, rather than fantasizing about virgins in paradise, acknowledged that if there was a hell he would probably be going there.

What were the objectives of McVeigh and Breivik, as compared to Muslim terrorists? Again, the first two had nothing to do with achieving the goals of Christianity. McVeigh was angry at his government, and Breivik was fearful for his culture. Muslim terrorists, on the other hand, state again and again that their goal is to establish Deen Allah, the religion of God, throughout the earth as Islam was practiced by Muhammad and his early followers.

It was in the response of Muslim religious Shaykhs to the death of Osama bin Ladin that the contrast is most clear. Rashid played a montage of Arabic-speaking Imams across the Middle East eulogizing the death. Without exception they attacked and blamed the United States but praised bin Ladin. He was a sincere Muslim, they reminded their viewers, and it is our responsibility to pray Salat al-Ghaib, the prayers for departed souls asking God to receive them into Fardous or Paradise. We might have had our differences with him, they added, but these differences were only minor points of disagreement. What I find interesting is that the "minor points of disagreement" were the practice of al-Qaeda of declaring Muslim governments Takfir or infidel. It would understandably be difficult for an Egyptian, Moroccan, or Saudi Shaykh who only holds his position with the blessing of his government to join Ayman al-Zawahiri in condemning that government as apostate.

I've noted before that the difference between the public stated positions of Muslims in the West and their counterparts in the Arab World is striking. I've also noted that most Western non-Muslim academics and politicians, very few of whom know Arabic, have as their sources English-speaking Muslims who tell them what they want them to believe. Even those non-Muslim experts who claim to know Arabic, in my opinion, don't really know it well enough to listen to the Osama bin Ladin eulogies played by Rashid and really know what is going on....


http://staringattheview.blogspot.com/

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Re: Can We Call It Islamic Terrorism? Sep 29, 2011
Bloggers are free to label terrorists as they like.

Baroch Goldstein is clearly a religiously motivated terrorist - one that crossed borders to go and kill in Palestine. He killed his victims BECAUSE of his religious views, on a Jewish feast day. He was therefore a Jewish Religious Terrorist.

Tim McVeigh is clearly not a religously motivated terrorist, neither was Joe Stack (the last suicide terrorist to strike in the USA). They attacked targets not because of their religious convictions. They were just American terrorists - Joe Stack, arguably, an American Terrorist who was Christian.

The American Christian Terrorist group the Hutaree are indeed Christian fundamentalist terrorists - they had an arsenal greater than all Muslim terror suspects caught since 9/11 and were planning to kill US citizens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutaree

Brievik in Norway, calls himself a Christian Crusader and holds extreme Islamophobic views. He views himself as crusading Christian knight. Does that make him a Christian Terrorist?

There are elements of the IRA who do use religion as motivation - they would, I guess, be called Catholic Religious Terrorists.

Bin Laden was clearly a Muslim extremist, and certainly was a terrorist. Same goes for the terrorists who carried out the WTC bombing in 1993. However, when the reasons for the attack are given and are SOLELY political (US foreign policy in Mid East) - then these guys are clearly Muslim Terrorists who are carrying out politically motivated attacks.

It is not rocket science. Just look beyond the labels at the motivations. Even loon bloggers should be able to understand - it is just a shame they resort to inventing religious motivations for political attacks. [sigh]

But the achilles heel of the loons will always be the statistics. In the EU last year, there were only 3 terrorist attacks by Muslims - and all 3 were carried out (unsuccessfully, thankfully) by numpties who were protesting at a cartoon - not to establish a deen etc.

Therefore by the loon blogger's own definition - there were no, zero, zilch, nada - terrorist attacks by Islamic Terrorists last year in the EU (but 3 terror attacks carried out by Muslims in protest against cartoons).

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Can we call it Islamic terrorism? Sep 29, 2011
Brievik in Norway, calls himself a Christian Crusader and holds extreme Islamophobic views. He views himself as crusading Christian knight. Does that make him a Christian Terrorist?


No, this was already explained on the other thread and this article. Brievik was not deeply religious man, so it's funny (and desperate) for you to cling on the fact he called himself a 'Crusader' when his own manifesto explains that a Crusader need not be Christian or religious.

There are elements of the IRA who do use religion as motivation - they would, I guess, be called Catholic Religious Terrorists.


Really? How so? Do they wish to set up a Catholic theocracy? Do they justify their actions by the teachings of Thomas Aquinas?

I'd like to see your evidence for this since you've kept insinuating this for some time.
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Re: Can We Call It Islamic Terrorism? Sep 29, 2011
Hey, it is not my fault that Brievik calls himself a Christian Crusader and shares your extreme Islamophobic views (and even cites your Guru Bob Spencer a few times in his manifesto).

You're an American, so shouldn't you comment first on the Christian Fundamentalist Terror group the Hutaree?

I'll happily provide the info about our Christian terrorists as requested. But do you agree that the Hutaree fit the bill?

And I guess even you can't deny that Goldstein is a Jewish Religious Terrorist (even though you refuse to condemn him for being one).

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Shafique
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Re: Can we call it Islamic terrorism? Sep 29, 2011
It's not illegal for a militia to have firearms. Militias and firearms are both constitutional rights in the US.

But what's interesting is that if the Hutaree were a Muslim group, you'd be crying 'entrapment' against the group:

The Hutaree members’ attorneys say that what an undercover federal agent and an informant claim was being planned was only talk, and is constitutionally protected speech.


It's only entrapment if Muslims are arrested by the FBI
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Re: Can We Call It Islamic Terrorism? Sep 29, 2011
Again with the moving goalposts?

Are the Hutaree terrorist group and Christian Fundamentalist Terrorist group or not? They were planning to kill your fellow American citizens, after all.

So, Goldstein - your no comment indicates you can't dispute the fact he was indeed a Jewish religious terrorist. Is that right?

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Shafique
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Re: Can we call it Islamic terrorism? Sep 29, 2011
They were planning on attacking targets for political reasons - at least according to the FBI agents who entrapped the group.

Now, why do you keep rattling on about the Hutaree when they were 'entrapped' as much as the numerous Muslim religious fanatics in recent years?

Oh, any plans to show how the IRA is seeking to establish a Catholic theocracy or openly cite the teachings of Thomas Aquinas to justify their violent actions?
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Re: Can We Call It Islamic Terrorism? Sep 29, 2011
Enlighten me, what were the political reasons that the Christian Fundamentalist Hutaree terrorists had for their planned terror attacks? Are you saying they are NOT a Christian Fundamentalist Terrorist group? :shock:

Your silence on Jewish Religious terrorist Baruch Goldstein is getting quite deafening. Why is that?

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Shafique
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