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shafique wrote:(geography lesson: Northern Ireland is part of the UK)

I know the IRA is your favorite justification for Islamic Terrorism Shaf but you are wrong.
You talk about Christian vs Christian terrorism, but the root cause of tension in NI is a territorial dispute and not religion.
I could walk into a Catholic pub in NI but I would not be in danger just because I am Protestant (unless I was also British (like you ) or started giving geography lessons like the above).
However, try walking into an Al Qaeda camp, announcing only that you are Christian and see how far you get before getting an AK47 round to the head.

^I totally agree that an Al Qaeda camp is more dangerous than an Irish pub. I'm however not aware saying that this wasn't the case.

My point has always been that the hype about the threat from Muslim nutters in the UK is greater than the threat from non-Muslim nutters. The key here is 'in the UK'.

Hence why it is interesting to note that the number of real bombs in NI doubled recently, and that these 99 real attempts were Christian on Christian.

So, in the UK, the threat is greater from Christian nutters/terrorists etc than from Muslim nutters/terrorists.

Stats don't lie.

Cheers,
Shafique

Stats indeed don't lie, if gathered correctly. More importantly, its the way to interpret the stats that really makes the difference, because the visualization of datapoints in graphs can be altered to your convenience.

An example would be Keynesian economists, who like to point out that the New Deal from Roosevelt worked splendidly in terms of GDP (expenditures), while the entire structure of (private) production suffered a realignment as a result of that massive public spending (private savings get borrowed/diverted by government for fiscal expenditures), prolonging the depression in the 1930s until WWII.

Minor issue, but it matters, ALOT.

Agreed Robby - the stats do need to be gathered correctly and interpreted correctly too.

The increase in actual bombs and bombings to 99 viable bombs, seems pretty 'cut and dry' to me. These 99 actual terrorist attacks and attempts can be compared to the number of attacks by 'Islamists' or 'Jihadists' in the UK over the same period.

Can't quite see the link between actual and fictional bombs and Keynsian economists - but hey, perhaps it is just me

Cheers,
Shafique

benwj wrote: I know the IRA is your favorite justification for Islamic Terrorism Shaf but you are wrong.
You talk about Christian vs Christian terrorism, but the root cause of tension in NI is a territorial dispute and not religion.

Shafique, I guess you drop this absolutely correct statement deliberately. It so amazingly similar to situation with Chechnya in Russia and in your view there is a political, not Muzlim ground in Chechnya.

Why do you take out the religious card from your very long sleeve so promptly in the "part" of the UK?

Red Chief wrote:Why do you take out the religious card from your very long sleeve so promptly?

Because it's convenient and serves his purpose/justification???

shafique wrote:Agreed Robby - the stats do need to be gathered correctly and interpreted correctly too.

The increase in actual bombs and bombings to 99 viable bombs, seems pretty 'cut and dry' to me. These 99 actual terrorist attacks and attempts can be compared to the number of attacks by 'Islamists' or 'Jihadists' in the UK over the same period.

Can't quite see the link between actual and fictional bombs and Keynsian economists - but hey, perhaps it is just me

Cheers,
Shafique

I know, I derailed from topic a bit. Forgive me for freestyling through your precious topic about Irish republican bombings.

shafique wrote:^I totally agree that an Al Qaeda camp is more dangerous than an Irish pub..

I wasn't talking about Molly Malone's in Dublin.

shafique wrote:My point has always been that the hype about the threat from Muslim nutters in the UK is greater than the threat from non-Muslim nutters. The key here is 'in the UK'.

Why limit yourself to the UK?
There are nutters everywhere and in a non-Muslim country such as the UK it would not surprise me if more are non-Muslim.
The difference is the motive/s.
Non-muslims can have any motive: from political, to gang warfare, to hearing voices that told them to do it.
The Muslims only have one motive and that is to kill non-muslims.

I prefer not to use the term nutters because most of these people (apart from the ones that hear voices) know what they are doing and calling them nutters sounds like an excuse to me.

Speaking as an actual person who actually lives in the UK (unlike the staticians who claim to be English LOL) I can state here and now that the threat we all live with comes from the mooooslims and not the Irish, whether they be Northern or Southern Irish.
It may have been true that the irish were a threat during the 70's but it's not the case now. We, British, only have an eye on the old mooooslims now.

benwj wrote:Why limit yourself to the UK?

I find it a helpful tactic when discussing the numbers of terrorist attacks in the UK.

When discussing the fact that in the EU and USA, the official stats show that the vast majority of real terrorist activities (attacks, bombings and real plots) are carried out by NON-Muslims (for whatever underlying reason). When looking at those stats, we should only look at the EU and USA.

benwj wrote:There are nutters everywhere and in a non-Muslim country such as the UK it would not surprise me if more are non-Muslim.
The difference is the motive/s.

I'm glad you're not surprised, neither was I.

However, I wasn't addressing motives. I was just pointing out the fact that the real bombings were carried out by non-Muslims. I don't think the victims of the terrorist bombs really care WHY they were attacked - but that is an interesting further point of discussion.

Motives for the nutters of Muslim or non-Muslim persuasion can be examined from the perspective of those doing the attacks and everyone else. My view of all those carrying out terrorist acts is the same - all are equally wrong - I make no moral distinction in the weapons used to kill civilians to advance political or religious aims, a suicide belt is as bad as a stealth bomber or an IRA bomb.

However, let's get the factual stats out of the way first - the stats in this thread address the situation in the UK, and specifically Northern Ireland. The nutters there, as per the OP, are targeting fellow Catholics.

To me, when you target someone because of their religion, it makes it (at least partly) a religious crime. The underlying motivation may well be territorial - but at least let's agree that it is terrorism, and terrorism carried out by Christians.

Cheers,
Shafique

Oh noes, not another repetitive, listless and needlessly lengthy post that doesn't address most of what someone said.

shafique wrote: To me, when you target someone because of their religion, it makes it (at least partly) a religious crime. The underlying motivation may well be territorial - but at least let's agree that it is terrorism, and terrorism carried out by Christians.

Cheers,
Shafique

If the underlying motive has no matter for you why you limit your stat by only the UK. Russia is also the PART of Europe. Your brothers in faith almost have monopoly on this ocupation and scream "AA" blowing up a hundred people in Moscow Metro or International Airport and they were only recent events.

In threads relating to terrorism in the UK and US (or Europe) - I limit the references to terrorist acts to those committed in the UK, US or Europe.

What makes these statistics particularly noteworthy is that the statistics show that the 'belief' that the MAIN threat of terrorism in the UK, US or Europe comes from 'Jihadists' or generally 'Muslim nutters' is not one that is based on actual evidence or statistics.

Pointing out these facts (and Europol, FBI etc statistics on the subject) is not in any way excusing the real terrorist acts carried out elsewhere in the world (be it by Christians in the DRC or India, or Muslims in many parts of the world). I'm not denying that those doing the killing and doing the dying in Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan et al are not Muslim.

In the UK, the stats show that the main terrorist threat is actually not from wild-eyed Muslim nutters but rather from wild-eyed non-Muslim nutters. I concede that there are indeed wild-eyed-Muslim-nutters in Europe and the UK and that they shouldn't be overlooked, but not at the expense of the more numerous non-Muslim-wild-eyed-nutters.

Cheers,
Shafique

A nutter is indeed somebody saying spiking a tree is exactly the same as flying a passenger jet in a skyscraper. Cannot get more insane.

FD - I'm disapointed that I unhid your submission.

The 99 bomb attempts in the OP didn't include tree spiking! But good attempt though - trying to trivialise the real terrorist acts and make out that Europol and FBI are silly.

You forget that on the 'Muslim nutter' side, you also get the non-existent threats such as the Ricin plot that never-was and the young wannabes who are entrapped by the FBI.

But thanks for confirming that my foe list is well targetted.

Cheers,
Shafique

I guess your next post will be about Basque Provinces in Spain. I heard they are Catholics as well.

shafique wrote:FD - I'm disapointed that I unhid your submission.

You have got very serious issues!

Europol and FBI are silly.

Silly is not the word for comparing tree spiking with bombing planes, trains and busses.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/counter-te ... eat-level/

Current threat level

The current threat level from international terrorism is Severe
This means that a terrorist attack is highly likely.

Terrorism related to Northern Ireland

The threat level for terrorism related to Northern Ireland is set separately for Northern Ireland and Great Britain:

In Northern Ireland it is Severe
This means that a terrorist attack is highly likely.
In Great Britain it is Substantial
This means that a terrorist attack is a strong possibility.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/counter-te ... -strategy/

Review of the Prevent strategy

The current threat level to the UK from international terrorism is severe. The most significant international terrorism threat to the UK remains violent extremism associated with and influenced by Al-Qa'ida.

So you see, the reason why the NI stats are treated independently from Great Britain and the EU, is because, surprisingly, not everyone who lives in GB and the wider EU, reside within NI.

I guess that’s probably also the reason why the Home office has considered and dismissed other European and wider territorial disputes as a direct threat to GB.

As you can clearly see from the links provided above, the Governmental office responsible for Counter Terrorism in GB have determined there is a bigger threat to GB from violent extremism associated with and influenced by Al-Qa'ida, than terrorism related to NI.

So, in summary, on the one hand, we have interpretation of NI terrorism statistics being randomly applied as a perceived threat, to the wider area of GB and the EU, by one who has a reputation of manipulating statistics to his own ends and posting inflammatory articles about anything that isn’t Violent Islamic Extremism in efforts to divert peoples attention from, Violent Islamic Extremism.

And on the other, we have information and advice from the office responsible for counter terrorism in Great Britain, Hmmmmm? Tough choice? I don’t think so.

Thanks Dillon - good points.

I always like to beyond commentaries and look at the stats - especially where they are available. Hence this thread about real bombs and the doubling of these real terrorist attempts.

The aim is to compare the narrative with the facts. I can't help refer back to official pronouncements of major terror plots uncovered (eg Ricin plot) which fizzled out under closer examination.

Stats show us who actually is carrying out terrorist attacks.

But that said, I don't dispute that all should be done to tackle Muslim nutters, just let's not forget all the non-Muslim nutters who seem to be more successful at planning and launching attacks.

(RC - the ETA attacks are indeed part of the EU stats - and that has been covered in previous threads about terrorism in the EU.)

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:(RC - the ETA attacks are indeed part of the EU stats - and that has been covered in previous threads about terrorism in the EU.)

I guess taking separately it's more noteworthy. The UK is also member of the EU so far, isn't it? Or I have dated information?

All Shafique does is to distort the facts.
Stats related to the NI bombings are mostly local paramilitary attacks on officers and police stations.
Attacks by mouslims are moslty suicide attacks, global and target innocent civilians, mouslims attacks remain the biggest threat ever.
Never heard of a NI commando slamming a jet liner on a tower.

^herve, I'll stick to the numbers of actual bombings and attempted bombings, we've all heard your beliefs before.

Don't blame me if the stats don't back up your beliefs - I'd invite you to bring some stats yourself, but I know that this is futile.

Cheers,
Shafique

herve wrote:Your Muslim propaganda cannot hide facts like these.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110514/ap_ ... es_florida
Muslims feed, support and finance terrorism, others like you support islamic terrorism trying to confuse the general opinion with irrelevant statistics. I can tell you it does not work. Nobody trust muslims, they dont even trust each other.
The Iman himself of this moske was caught funding a terrorist organization
You do not have the courage to show your face and tell your name, you hide behind an avatar pretending to be british when you actually despise the country who was weak enough to grant you a citizenship that you use for your propaganda.

Puh, yeah right muslims feed, support and finance terrorism, confuse the general opinion hence nobody trust us but hey are you ready for Democracy! yourselves to convince us...

Berrin, I hope you realize that the video is pure satire??? and did you buy chance notice who created it??? http://www.Muhaddith.org???

Is this you mocking America???

shhhhhtt madam then enjoy the whole world on pure satire!!! ....

Hey Shafique, another one for your stats, a mooslim cleric busted in a terrorist probe in South America.
Your NI fire crackers are nothing but a skin rash compare to the global infestation created by islam.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110520/ap_ ... c_detained

-- Fri May 20, 2011 7:25 am --

Al Shafique
I guess we dont see in your stats many NI chicks combining suicide bombing advices and beauty tips. That is a 100% mooslim trade.
Beside that you should subscribe righ away if you have not done it already, it amuses me (because your futile attempts do not work) to see you try and convince everybody that islam has nothing to do with terrorism and violence.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... dvice.html

Shaf, You will be happy to know that YOUR queen is currently on tour of Ireland (not part of the UK).

benwj wrote:Shaf, You will be happy to know that YOUR queen is currently on tour of Ireland (not part of the UK).

She enjoyed River Dance. I've never seen Mrs Queen look so happpy.

I don't thinks she's Shaf's queen though. I thought she was CofE.

Bethsmum wrote:

benwj wrote:Shaf, You will be happy to know that YOUR queen is currently on tour of Ireland (not part of the UK).

She enjoyed River Dance. I've never seen Mrs Queen look so happpy.

I don't thinks she's Shaf's queen though. I thought she was CofE.

Who did he swear allegiance to then when he got his passport?

benwj wrote:

Bethsmum wrote:

benwj wrote:Shaf, You will be happy to know that YOUR queen is currently on tour of Ireland (not part of the UK).

She enjoyed River Dance. I've never seen Mrs Queen look so happpy.

I don't thinks she's Shaf's queen though. I thought she was CofE.

Who did he swear allegiance to then when he got his passport?

Do you have to do that? I bet those words nearly chocked the poor bugger. Her being an infidel and all that.

White trash.