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shafique · Jan 22, 2011

This now famous edition of Question Time from 2009 had the leader of the British National Party, Nick Griffin, on it. There was controversy about his appearance at the time, but in it he and his party's views were exposed and he was visibly squirming at many points (most noticeably when his own words were quoted back at him).

I'm reposting for two points in this first part of the programme (of 7)
1. Jack Straw makes a point early on about how the two world wars were won only with the help of Black and Asian soldiers from around the world, and how in a military cemetery in France more than half of the solidiers had Indian and Pakistani names such as Muhammad Khan and Sheikh Ahmad etc.

2. Nick Griffin, the BNP leader, is challenged about his Holocaust denial.

In part 3 - there is a question 'Why is Islam a wicked and evil faith' (after Griffin is taken to task by a Jewish questioner over Holocaust denial), and Baroness Varsi's demolition of Griffin's answer.

As an Englishman who votes, I would certainly never vote for a party whose leader denied the Holocaust. I'd also view as extremely curious anyone who voted for the BNP and then said they abhorred Holocaust deniers.

Cheers,
Shafique

desertdudeshj · Jan 22, 2011

Excellent debate, and the true face of the BNP shown. Well actually everybody does know the true face of BNP.

But you forgot shaf your not an Englishman, your just a passport holder sponging off benefits, and as for your curiosity people have tried to justify their voting for the BNP because of their anti immigration stance. Yeah, right ! just goes to show how many have seriously faulty wiring upstairs.

Bora Bora · Jan 22, 2011

desertdudeshj wrote:Excellent debate, and the true face of the BNP shown. Well actually everybody does know the true face of BNP.

But you forgot shaf your not an Englishman, your just a passport holder sponging off benefits, and as for your curiosity people have tried to justify their voting for the BNP because of their anti immigration stance. Yeah, right ! just goes to show how many have seriously faulty wiring upstairs.

I think the subject here is more about immigration, that the BNP, so I'm going to go beyond the BNP and address immigration.

I'm sure that BM will agree that Shaf's family - who were immigrants - are the very role model as to immigrants succeeding in an adopted country. Shaf was born and raised in the UK - he's certainly an Englishman.

Dude, you have been an expat in a country for almost your entire life. Apparently you plan to migrate from the UAE, hence becoming an immigrant, unless you return to your home country. I wish you luck wherever you land because I think only then you will understand how immigrants who live off their adopted country are frowned upon, while you will probably be out there working and paying taxes, but unfortunately you will lumped in with the other immigrants who do, which will create a level of resentment within yourself because you are doing what you believe to be the right thing, while others are not, and ultimately you will realize how you are supporting them and at the same time taking the flack for them.

There is a global immigration problem and so many views from each side. Here is one view, which I found very interesting:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... oblem.html

Governments dealing with the problems of immigration should hold themselves responsible as they created the mindset with immigrants: if you can't (unskilled, language issues, uneducated, etc.) work, there is always welfare.

Immigration and the impact on government and society is out of control and governments and citizens are addressing it (closing the barn door after the horse got out???). What needs to be done is to round up the horse and put in back in the barn with restraints.

zubber · Jan 22, 2011

Bora Bora wrote:http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... oblem.html

"Londonstan" is slang for a new London of thousands of unassimilated Pakistani nationals

desertdudeshj · Jan 22, 2011

You might be sure about BM will agree about shaf being and englishman, but then your absolutely wrong, my comments about shaf being an Englishman. I was merely regurgitating comments Herve and BM have made about him.

To them he will never be anything but a forginer holding a passport of convinence. There were moments in the debate I could have sworn Nick Griffen was reading some of BM's posts from here.

Although the debate posted here by Shaf is about immigration but that is not the topic wanting to be discussed here, its the BNP, their leaders, idealogy and their ilk.

Bora Bora · Jan 22, 2011

desertdudeshj wrote:You might be sure about BM will agree about shaf being and englishman, but then your absolutely wrong, my comments about shaf being an Englishman. I was merely regurgitating comments Herve and BM have made about him.

To them he will never be anything but a forginer holding a passport of convinence. There were moments in the debate I could have sworn Nick Griffen was reading some of BM's posts from here.

Although the debate posted here by Shaf is about immigration but that is not the topic wanting to be discussed here, its the BNP, their leaders, idealogy and their ilk.

Duh, I know you were being sarcastic about your comments re Shaf. :drunken:

Them is not everyone. If the discussion is about BNP, leaders, idealogy, ilk - then that's something that has absolutely nothing to do with you!!!! or I for that matter.

I guess we should just leave it to the Brits. :wink:

since it's happening in their country. :wink:

desertdudeshj · Jan 22, 2011

So unless your directly related to something your not supposed to or allowed to discuss it ?

Bora Bora · Jan 22, 2011

desertdudeshj wrote:So unless your directly related to something your not supposed to or allowed to discuss it ?

You tell me. :roll:

I keep forgetting that you think you are the master of derailing or highjacking a thread.

desertdudeshj · Jan 22, 2011

Trying to have your cake and eat it too, eh ? LOL

Anywhoo................

Berrin · Jan 22, 2011

Governments dealing with the problems of immigration should hold themselves responsible as they created the mindset with immigrants: if you can't (unskilled, language issues, uneducated, etc.) work, there is always welfare.

Hey Madam, most of those immigrants are from the commonwealth realm, Britian needs them at all cost to continue its influence on those nations! :wink:

shafique · Jan 22, 2011

I hate to jump into the middle of an intimate conversation - but let me just say that the topic can be discussed by non-Brits too.

The BNP leader denies the Holocaust, says one thing but believes another, considers Islam evil AND also has a problem with immigration. However, mostly they are racist and fascist (as the panelists point out).

What is also interesting is how shallow his arguments actually are - scratch the surface and confront them with their quotes and they have to resort smokescreens to deflect attention away (unsuccessfully in this case).

Nick Griffin, in many ways, typifies those who insist they are not Islamophobes and yet want to believe the myths proposed by Griffin are true.

Cheers,
Shafique

desertdudeshj · Jan 22, 2011

Like I always say, when some one starts with the discliamer I'm not a racist ...... That usually means its going to be follwed by some serious racist tripe and most probably that person is a racist aswell

Just like as pointed out in the debate that the BNP starts with we are not a racist party......and pointed out very well by one of the panelist. How many other parties start out like that LOL.

The whole immigration thing is a facade with the BNP. They have never point out the many "white and christian" legal and illegal immigrants in the UK. Its always the brown asian ones that seem to be the problem and what does send them all back and turn this country back into a white and christian nation mean ?

Bora Bora · Jan 22, 2011

desertdudeshj wrote:Trying to have your cake and eat it too, eh ? LOL

Anywhoo................

I wouldn't deprive you of that pleasure. You get the cake and get to eat it too!!!

event horizon · Jan 22, 2011

shafique wrote:denies the Holocaust, says one thing but believes another

Now if they were only an Islamic terrorist group, you'd staunchly defend them.

zubber · Jan 22, 2011

OK here is my take on this immigration issue , I dont know what BNP is nor am I interested to know what it is about.

I have personally lived in more than one place for an extended period of time, And what I have noticed is that the immigrant population (those who are citizens) tend to be either wealthy, successful and in specialized professions or are sponges on the state, About england i know the wealthiest guy their is some indian bizman , I dont understand what this human cry is about immigration and bla bla bla , if the govt perceives the not so well off ones to be sponging of the state , why cant better laws be placed to ensure this doesnt happen ?

The western world is overly obsessed with this islamophobia issue,

desertdudeshj · Jan 22, 2011

Thats the whole issue in my view, these sponging off issues are way more exaggerated than they actually are. And its always the brown people who are the problem everywhere. Wether it be the Latinos in USA or Asians in the UK. As always its eaiser to pass the blame on to someone else. The immigrants are eating up everything and just draining the system which is specially ironic for a country like the USA which was built on and by immigrants.

Who are the number one illegals in Australia ? One would believe from the media and by watching programs like border security its either the Asians or Arabs. But its the British with Americans comming in a close second.

Immigration while being a very real and relevant issue is mostly used by people like the BNP and its supporters and voters to veil their racism.

And what about the numerous "white" EU citizens in the UK you hardly hear about them. Its always send these people home so we can be white again !

event horizon · Jan 22, 2011

Yes, because those menacing Polish immigrants have formed 'no-go' areas in parts of London, where anyone without blond hair and blue eyes is mugged.

No, wait.....

Bora Bora · Jan 22, 2011

desertdudeshj wrote:Thats the whole issue in my view, these sponging off issues are way more exaggerated than they actually are. And its always the brown people who are the problem everywhere. Wether it be the Latinos in USA or Asians in the UK. As always its eaiser to pass the blame on to someone else. The immigrants are eating up everything and just draining the system which is specially ironic for a country like the USA which was built on and by immigrants.

Who are the number one illegals in Australia ? One would believe from the media and by watching programs like border security its either the Asians or Arabs. But its the British with Americans comming in a close second.

Pass the blame on to someone else? Like who, the working class, the rich?? Yes the USA is a land founded and built by immigrants. The difference is those immigrants built it from the ground up. Maybe you aren't aware of it, but there was no welfare at that time or a system they could drain. Different times dude, different situations.

As for the Asian immigrants in the UK, I'm sure it's safe to say they are in the country legally. It appears that the immigrant problems the people in the country is experiencing is that of a MAJORITY, which happen to be Pakistani. I'm sure there are a number of immigrants, including Pakistanis, who are opposed to the immigration and abuse of benefits and crimes committed by them. Reality is, there is a backlash on those who don't deserve it, who are probably the majority.

As for the USA - the issues with the Mexicans have to do with 1) their status - they are in limbo. Allow me to explain it to you - being illegal yet allowed to be in the states and work - which appears to serve farmers, business owners and the government quite well. IMO, if they are going to be allowed to work, they should be given legal status - at the very least a green card. And 2) the issue of drug cartels moving into states that border Mexico and the crimes that are being committed by the cartels within those states, especially Arizona, as well as the drugs being brought into the States.

With regard to immigration: there are two different issues-first, immigrants; second; illegal immigrants. Apples and oranges. It appears that the UK has issues with people legally in the country, whereas the US has issues with people who are legally and illegally in the country.

Americans and Brits migrating to Australia (or any country for that matter) may not be a problem for the host country as Brits and Americans by nature work for a living.

You are all up in everyone's face about being people being racist towards brown skinned people. Yet, you yourself clearly come across as being a racist towards white skinned people.

I guess it's safe to say that the UK, US, Australia won't be expecting an application to migrate. :lol:

Thank God for small miracles.

desertdudeshj · Jan 22, 2011

No I'm just biased against fiesty old bored housewives !

Bora Bora · Jan 22, 2011

desertdudeshj wrote:No I'm just biased against fiesty old bored housewives !

Especially when they are white as snow. :albino:

JoeTGF · Jan 22, 2011

event horizon wrote:
shafique wrote:denies the Holocaust, says one thing but believes another

Now if they were only an Islamic terrorist group, you'd staunchly defend them.

EH - this has nothing to do with the thread but more about your constant battle in the political forum with Shaf - lets stay on topic.

event horizon wrote:Yes, because those menacing Polish immigrants have formed 'no-go' areas in parts of London, where anyone without blond hair and blue eyes is mugged.

No, wait.....

Have you been to London? What area is that exactly?

desertdudeshj · Jan 22, 2011

Its a place in his mind called eh's phobic fantasy land and apprently he spends a lot of time there aswell

event horizon · Jan 22, 2011

Joe, I'll instead defer you to Beth's Mum and Chocoholic to answer your question.

My observations are based on what I've read from British posters on different websites who are unhappy with what's occurring in their country.

I think it's comparable to cities in the US that are 'no go' areas or even neighborhoods and schools where intimidation and thug tactics run rampant.

Bethsmum · Jan 23, 2011

Seeing as my name has been mentioned here, I am going to venture my opinion even tho' I vowed not to post in the politics forum again.
I couldn't give a monkey's toss what goes on in other countries and therefore can't understand why anyone from Pakistan would be bothered about the BNP.
If it was up to me I'd line everyone up and make them take a litmus paper test. All those who failed would be shiped back from wherever they came sharpish.

desertdudeshj · Jan 23, 2011

Still tagging the party line I see.

Bethsmum · Jan 23, 2011

Yep DDS, get shot of those bloody immigrants and leave England as it should be, a white indigenous population.

Funnily enough I went out on Thursday evening to our local pub. Being a very rural location, the pub is exremely quiet during the winter months. BM was going to have a meal. Apart from her there were two other men present. Seeing as it was so quiet BM picked up on the fact that these lads were not local, in fact they were from Manchester. As is BM, she engaged them in conversation. Minutes later, they were joined by two other workmates. They had been engaged to carry out a survey on a castle near by which was being renovated.
The gist of this story is that these lads were English and as the pub was empty, we were all at liberty to express our thoughts without hesitation.
BM took comfort in knowing she was not the only white English person to resent the presence of the Pakis. These lads expressed their thoughts about seeing Muslim women gowned up in the Trafford Centre where they lived and the fact that their kids were out numbered by immigrants at their local school. In face one child had been refused entry to a school as it wasn't Mooooslim.
You see, contrary to what you want to believe BM is not at all different from 99% of the rest of the white population of Britain

desertdudeshj · Jan 23, 2011

Awesome, so two blokes in the middle of nowhere and one northern spotty bird represent 99% of the white british population. Thats quite a deduction I must say !

Have you already recieved your trophy for winning the darwin awards this year ?

Bethsmum · Jan 23, 2011

desertdudeshj wrote:Awesome, so two blokes in the middle of nowhere and one northern spotty bird represent 99% of the white british population. Thats quite a deduction I must say !

Have you already recieved your trophy for winning the darwin awards this year ?

DDS re read and digest, 4 white Englishmen and a lush northern bird not to be messed with. Yes, a true representation of what proper English people think.

kanelli · Jan 23, 2011

In Canada I have known so many middle class immigrants who work very hard to make a good life for their family. I didn't live in a big city, so I guess I didn't see a lot of the people sponging off the govt.

BNP sound like nutjobs who function on personal prejudice rather than facts. I would never vote for a party that is so extreme.

shafique · Jan 23, 2011

Bora - I'm not sure whether the majority of Asian (in the sense the UK uses the term - i.e. brown/'indian' - not the US version = 'chinese') immigrants in the UK are from Pakistan - or that the immigrants with Pakistani heritage are the ones that the Islamophobes and racists have a particular problem with.

In Southall, the racist BNP in their former incarnation of the National Front fought with Sikhs - and indeed it was mostly Sikh immigrants to Southall that led to NF marches there and the calls for 'Pakis out'.

Paki is a generic term equal to 'nigger' in use and in receipt (and equivalent to Yid for Jews) - and does not actually refer to 'persons of a Pakistani origin' but rather to 'people who look different from us and have brown skin'. Many a Sikh, Iranian, Indian, Bangladeshi etc have had the term directed against them.

So, if you read that a Brit is mouthing off about 'Pakis' - don't take that to mean they are complaining only about Pakistanis - but rather about Brown skinned people. Geography is not a strong point for these guys - but it is an easy mistake to make. Herve famously insisted on a number of posts that I was not English but Pakistani - presumably because someone may have referred to me as a Paki? :roll:

Just like nigger, it has been appropriated by some in the immigrant community for their use - but just like the word nigger, it is usually a term of racist intolerant abuse.

The NF was anti-semitic and racist and fascist. They went through a makeover, but the same guys are part of the BNP - and they are still anti-semitic, racist and fascist.

Indeed, it is most telling that the fact that the leader of the BNP is a Holocaust denier is glossed over by BNP supporters speaks volumes. When Hamas is accused of denying the Holocaust, they correct this misconception by issuing clear statements of policy, and indeed people like me do not hesitate to condemn anyone who admits to denying the Holocaust (or indeed who say they deny the Holocaust).

Cheers,
Shafique

Edit, Imagine if a BNP supporter had written:

BNP supporter wrote:BNP supporter took comfort in knowing she was not the only white English person to resent the presence of the YIDS (and NIGGERS). These lads expressed their thoughts about seeing YID women gowned up in the Trafford Centre where they lived and the fact that their kids were out numbered by immigrants at their local school. In face one child had been refused entry to a school as it wasn't JOOWISH.

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