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Bora Bora wrote:Thank you for the correction Shaf. Another case of one word having two meanings. Us Yanks across the pond don't see it as being anything other than short for Pakistani with no offense attached to it. Another word for me to think about before using it.

In modern British usage "Paki" is typically used in a derogatory way as a label for all South Asians, including Indians, Afghans and Bangladeshis.

Well if it's in the wiktionary it must be right!

Tell me DDS, are you insulted by the term Paki? And if so, why?

..
While reclaiming the N-word has prompted debate in wider society British Asians are engaged in a similar quandary about the word Paki.

It's a word I heard all too often in my formative years and one which still stirs up bad memories of bovver boots, skinheads and "Paki-bashing".

The origins of the P-word, as its known in polite society, are far more recent than its black equivalent, which dates back to the 16th Century.

Its first recorded use was in 1964, when hostility in Britain to immigration from its former colonies in the Asian sub-continent, was beginning to find a voice.

Despite being an abbreviation for "Pakistani", its proponents tended to be less discriminating about its application - directing it against anyone with brown skin, be they Indian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi. Sometimes even non-Asians who happened to have a dark complexion found themselves on the receiving end.

Forty years on, use of the word is still highly sensitive and has the potential to cause great offence. Earlier this year, it was alluded to in unbroadcast material from the Celebrity Big Brother house, when Indian housemate Shilpa Shetty became the target of racist abuse.
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desertdudeshj wrote:Personally I could be least offended by what any virtual entity like BM's says. I've dealt with much worse in real life. Like I said earlier I actually feel sorry for such racists and xenophobes who have to live in their own little twisted paranoid world, while the rest of us normal people go about living their lives without worrying if more muzzies or pakis will be moving into my neighbourhood and when will I get my white country back.

Its funny to watch them squirm and deny when conforted by their own tripe, just as Nick Griffin in the debate. Watch her try to squirm her way out of the corner shes painted herself in by denying that her use of the term paki or mooslims wasn't meant to be derogatory and then trying to save face with her chum. Oh no bora don't believe shaf, he's a liar. You really don't have to be from the UK to understand the context they are being used in. I think shaf did a briliant job with replacing the terms with other slurs which people are more familiar with, just to show what the real context is.

As always this will be tried to be justified as just being humour with no malicious intent circa Bernand Maning ( Atleast his stuff was funny ), some might even fall for it and some have, but to me it stands out bright as day for what it really is.

shafique wrote:Oh dear, I'm now being accused of 'speaking with forked tongue', LOL.

But hey, I don't mind people not taking my explanations at face value and checking out the references.

Perhaps this article from the BBC will clarify it further (and note that the reference to Shilpa Shetty refers to when she was called a Paki on tv. Shilpa is Indian - and the controversy was not because she is not Pakistani, but because of the nature of the word Paki):


For years, the word [Paki] stood solely for vehement racial abuse

..
While reclaiming the N-word has prompted debate in wider society British Asians are engaged in a similar quandary about the word Paki.

It's a word I heard all too often in my formative years and one which still stirs up bad memories of bovver boots, skinheads and "Paki-bashing".

The origins of the P-word, as its known in polite society, are far more recent than its black equivalent, which dates back to the 16th Century.

Its first recorded use was in 1964, when hostility in Britain to immigration from its former colonies in the Asian sub-continent, was beginning to find a voice.

Despite being an abbreviation for "Pakistani", its proponents tended to be less discriminating about its application - directing it against anyone with brown skin, be they Indian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi. Sometimes even non-Asians who happened to have a dark complexion found themselves on the receiving end.

Forty years on, use of the word is still highly sensitive and has the potential to cause great offence. Earlier this year, it was alluded to in unbroadcast material from the Celebrity Big Brother house, when Indian housemate Shilpa Shetty became the target of racist abuse.
..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6740445.stm

Perhaps some people think that the BBC is not quite British enough...

Cheers,
Shafique

Most British people are afraid to express their views. I am not.

shafique wrote:BM - you called me a liar when I explained the use of the term 'Paki' - you argued it is the same as 'Brit', but it isn't. Anyone who comes from the UK knows this - so it seems extremely silly of you to even take this line. Perhaps you realised you'd painted yourself into a corner?

Now instead of facing up to this slur, you're changing the argument and saying that I need to be more balanced in my argument.

With all due respect, what argument did I present here that wasn't balanced? Nick Griffin's denial of the Holocaust, or the exposition of his racist views on QT?

If you can produce a post of mine that says that Islam is the only path or that all Muslims are saints, I'll then agree that your view of me is based on actual evidence. Lashing out wildly with bizare accusations does your argument a lot of harm.

I understand that you may be ashamed at the views of the leader of the BNP or that your use of the p-word is now clear to all and sundry not an innocuous abbreviation - but actually a hateful remark used by racists and fascists alike.

You say that you would not use the words Yid and Nigger - but as the article above states, the p-word is as offensive as the n-word. Pretending that it wasn't used in this context just makes you look even more foolish - when in a hole, stop digging.

Cheers,
Shafique

Bethsmum wrote:Non, je ne regrette rien.

zubber wrote:

Bethsmum wrote:Non, je ne regrette rien.

"Taste the rainbow, Skittles" , English Translation

Bethsmum wrote:It makes me sick to the stomach when the halocaust is denied. My grandfather was the liberating sargeant major into Bergen-Belsen. Try telling him, when he was alive, there was no halocaust. He suffered for years afterwards about the many Jews he killed with kindness, feeding the Jews on the brink of death, which finished them off. SHAME ON ANYONE WHO DENIES THE HALOCAUST.

Berrin wrote:What? BM.. your father killed many Jews with kindness?

The Holocaust was not only a crime against humanity but one of the most abhorrent crimes in modern history.

We condemn it as we condemn every abuse of humanity and all forms of discrimination on the basis of religion, race, gender or nationality.

Bethsmum wrote: I don’t go around abusing people because of the colour of their skin;
...
I don’t consider myself to be a white supremacist, if I did; I wouldn’t want to own property in a Muslim country, nor have a very close Muslim friend, would I? I have absolutely no problem with anybody until they cross me or my family.

Bethsmum wrote:Yep DDS, get shot of those bloody immigrants and leave England as it should be, a white indigenous population.

..BM took comfort in knowing she was not the only white English person to resent the presence of the Pakis.
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You see, contrary to what you want to believe BM is not at all different from 99% of the rest of the white population of Britain

shafique wrote:^Berrin, BM says her father fed many of the victims in the liberated concentration camps, and this act of feeding killed the weakest of these victims of Hitler's attempt at a 'final solution'.

That's a moving story to me - and why I too would condemn anyone who denies the Holocaust happens. It is also the reason why I am strongly opposed to those who misuse the Holocaust to justify imposing suffering on other people.

Indeed, I support this view :

The Holocaust was not only a crime against humanity but one of the most abhorrent crimes in modern history.

I also share this sentiment:

We condemn it as we condemn every abuse of humanity and all forms of discrimination on the basis of religion, race, gender or nationality.

This just happens to be what Hamas' Minister of Information states is Hamas' view - but that is by-the-by - the sentiment is one I share.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Bethsmum wrote:It makes me sick to the stomach when the halocaust is denied. My grandfather was the liberating sargeant major into Bergen-Belsen. Try telling him, when he was alive, there was no halocaust. He suffered for years afterwards about the many Jews he killed with kindness, feeding the Jews on the brink of death, which finished them off. SHAME ON ANYONE WHO DENIES THE HALOCAUST.

Imagine holding this view and still voting for a party whose leader denies the Holocaust - and who was creamed in a debate by an English British Baroness, who happens to be of Pakistani heritage!

No wonder all the evasion and name calling.

Cheers,
Shafique

Berrin wrote:What? BM.. your father killed many Jews with kindness?

shafique wrote:But surely you can't condone Nick Griffin's Holocaust denial?

shafique wrote:But surely you can't condone Nick Griffin's Holocaust denial?