Balletophobia

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Balletophobia Jul 14, 2011
I thought I'd made up the term 'balletophobia'.

Alas, that was not the case...as the term has been used before.. but here it is - a moving tract on why we should not fear ballet! Some think it un-American, he says. Pah! I say. We shouldn't be afraid of tutus.
:D

Balletophobia
By Alexandra Tomalonis


What is it about the sight of a woman in a tutu that strikes terror in the hearts of men? Why, if one has the temerity to say, in public, that one enjoys classical ballet, do those who are not similarly inclined either laugh uncomfortably or snarl something about elitism, or inquire, not very politely, just what century this is, anyway?

I can understand why people don't like ballet, but I don't understand why some seem so afraid of it. We've been through phases like this before. During the 1930s and '40s, articles by otherwise respectable critics in otherwise respectable publications howled that ballet was European and un-American, some even suggesting that Balanchine go back to Europe where he belonged. (Similar sentiments were expressed about French dancers who visited New York in the 1830s.) The mid-twentieth century comments are usually interpreted now as expressions of fear on the part of those who worried that the fledgling American modern dance scene would suffer in comparison, but the same sentiments returned in the 1960s, this time phrased more as an incongruency of time rather than place. ("It's the Sixties! What do tutus and toe shoes have to do with the Sixties?") The concept that classical ballet is an infinite vocabulary rather than a passing style seems difficult for some to grasp. And now in the 1990s, there's a third wave of balletophobia, this time often clothed in concern about race (because African-Americans are underrepresented in America's ballet companies, this is seen by some as a flaw inherent in the art form) and gender (toe shoes are, ipso facto, exploitation devices). For the less politically obsessed balletophobe, the view is simply that classical ballet is old-fashioned and has been superseded by "contemporary" ballet or "crossover dance," or whatever is hot that year. Somehow, ballet-in the sense of dances constructed from the vocabulary of the danse d'école has become, to some, an outmoded style of dancing. It is, by its very nature, elitist, exclusionary, antidemocratic and (although this is very seldom stated so boldly) anti-American.

The charge is not made of whole cloth. There are aspects of ballet that are antidemocratic. Everyone cannot be a ballet dancer. There are requirements of talent and, in many cases, of body proportions and structure. This is totally foreign to American life. The thought that no one under six foot nine would be allowed to play professional basketball, or that no one over four foot ten could compete on the women's Olympic gymnastics team is so silly it isn't even worth considering. Nothing like that could happen in America. Paradoxically, despite a mainstream media that is so uncomfortable dealing with ballet one is almost glad it ignores it, and despite grumbles by the arts establishment about ballet's supposed elitism, the general audience doesn't seem afraid of ballet at all. Hang out a sign that says "Legenday Russian Company dances Swan Lake," and you'll sell out in an hour. Bill a company as "Postmodern Artists Take Dance Beyond the Cutting Edge," and a dozen afficionados of the genre will fill the loft. I'm not arguing that popularity is related to artistic worth; no elitist worth her salt would entertain such a thought. But if ballet is so undemocratic, why has it remained so popular? And is its popularity among the masses the source of the fear?

Strangely, some of the strongest anti-ballet voices come from within the ballet world. Of course, some of the crossover people must be sincere, but for others, there may be ulterior motives. Put yourself in their shoes. Which do you think is cheaper to produce, a full-length Swan Lake or three six-dancer ballets danced without decor to taped music? If a balletmaster is trying to convince the world that his born-yesterday troupe is today's sensation, which work will not belie his assertions: Raymonda, or three six-dancer ballets danced, with or without decor, to taped music? Ballet is expensive, and ballet is hard. It's hard to dance, it's hard to choreograph, and it's hard to present properly. It's also very, very hard to fake. No wonder some people fear it so.

George Balanchine, who never gets enough credit for his marketing savvy, faced these fears and fought these battles long ago. We shouldn't have to fight them again, but if we must, it might be instructive to examine his tactics. These thoughts occurred to me when recently rewatching the excellent Balanchine Biography shown on PBS a few seasons ago. A poster for Orpheus (1947) included a very favorable quote from John Martin, dance critic of the New York Times, passionate partisan of American Modern Dance, and still, at that time, a Balanchine basher. I was surprised that Martin had liked Orpheus, until, watching the few seconds of dancing, I realized that the Noguchi designs made it look like something he was used to: a Graham ballet. Even the most brilliant and accomplished among us zero in on the superficials when judging unfamiliar work.

Balanchine (or was it Lincoln Kirstein?) must have known this well. Seven years later, when he was still getting "Russki go home" notices, Balanchine took a more direct approach. You want American? How more American can you get than cowboys? And so Balanchine made Western Symphony, and set ballet dances for cowboys and their girls (saloon girls, not cowgirls, an anti-democratic touch, but he was, after all, a mere European). Three years later, he took a "See, you really are a part of this world after all" approach, and created Square Dance, using music by Vivaldi and Corelli, and the floor patterns and the parents of steps that American country dancers danced. There was even a real square dance caller to make the point, and to make it fun. Western Symphony and Square Dance are usually explained as part of Balanchine's fantasies about America, and his yearning to be American, but I think it was part of audience building. "Ballet is European, but it is also American. Ballet can be anything," he was saying. "Give me a subject, and I'll make a ballet out of it." And, of course, he could, and he did.

Before pondering why we have to go through this again forty years later, I would throw out this thought: can you imagine an American symphony orchestra forced to dress up in cowboy clothes to play the New World symphony, because that was the only way they could get their critics to stop denouncing them for playing that elitist European music? In America, during Balanchine's lifetime, the anti-ballet contingent had to keep quiet. They didn't go away, they just went underground. It was hard to say that ballet was irrelevant to modern life when Balanchine kept turning out works that even the most rigid avant-gardist would consider art.

But it has now been nearly twenty years since Balanchine was an active force in the creative life of ballet this country. There is no one working at his level, and the fact that most of today's ballet choreographers make imitation Balanchine ballets makes this all too obvious. So it has again become possible to raise the old cry: ballet is elitist, ballet is undemocratic, ballet is un-American. It is anti-feminist (because the woman is supported in adagio). It is not creative (because it is composed of steps, not what some fondly believe is "created movement"). It's artificial (yes, it's supposed to be. That's another way of saying it's objective). It's not about real life (Oh, thank God. No, it's not. That's why we love it so).

I think that the latter charge is the one that is the most deeply felt, and is the most easily explained. Ballet is often accused of offering a prettified version of life, an unreal picture of harsh reality, but that isn't quite so. Ballet presents life as it should be. Not as it is, not even, perhaps, as it could be, but a shimmering, golden vision of what man's imagination can create, of what man's soul can achieve. Ballet's open, trusting, turned out body, its proud (not arrogant) bearing, its leaps heavenward, are symbolic of the possibilities inherent in goodness and beauty, an infinity of movement, an invincibility of spirit. Seen that way, ballet should inspire courage, not fear. What better way to face a new millennium?


http://www.balletalert.com/magazines/BA ... phobia.htm

:D
:bigsmurf:
Cheers,
Shafique

shafique
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 14, 2011
Any reference as to it being related to religion???? Is there a place of worship for people who take up ballet???
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 14, 2011
Given this is the 'Politics Talk' forum.why should this have anything to do with religion (my posts about the Israeli Military Occupation aren't about religion, for example).

Here, I guess, I'm making the connection between this irrational fear of ballet (which may or may not be taught in school halls) with another irrational fear of a group of people that some here subscribe to.

(Standard disclaimer applies - not all who are critical are loons, only the loons are loons - they are the ones with the irrational hatred.)

I was just surprised to see a reference to 'balletophobes', as it were! (Would that make them 'ballet loons'?? :D )

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 14, 2011
It's just Shafique being silly, again.
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 14, 2011
Let's compare the ballet class and religious service.

Ballet
- offered outside of school time
- anyone can attend
- premises are rented by ballet teacher and his/her students
- boys and girls may sit out if they have an injury or don't feel well enough to participate in ballet
- other sports and activity groups are equally able to rent the facilities after school hours
- activities done by groups using the facilities outside of school time are not under the rule of the school board

Friday Service
- offered during school hours on Fridays
- Muslims may attend
- premises are not rented but used for free
- girls must pray behind barriers behind the boys
- menstruating girls are unclean and have to sit at the back and may not participate in prayer
- Christian religious practice and traditions have been removed from most schools
- no other religions have so far been granted permission to use school facilities during school hours for prayer
- activities done by groups using the facilities during school time are subject to the rule of the school board

But you are right - they are exactly the same! Anyone complaining is Islamophobic, sorry - "Balletophobic"! ;)
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 14, 2011
When did I say 'anyone complaining' is Islamophobic? Some, like herve, obviously are - others seem to have a belief that Muslim children worshipping at Friday lunchtimes is somehow violating the separation of Church and State.

The loons are easily laughed away - no need to pursue their rants.

However, I am intrigued as to what exactly the harm is with kids worshipping God during Friday lunchtime is.

Remind me again what the harm is?

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 14, 2011
I'll remind you again - you refuse to own up to the foolish example you use: ballet. Totally irrelevant and a poor excuse to justify you thinking that it's OK to bring prayer into a public school because you can't get your head around the concept of separation of church and state. Aside from you, who said anything about "harm"??? Or did you mean haram????? :D Using ballet to justify your argument is about as relevant as you having endrollphoebia, or maybe you do??? :D

You failed to point out to me where your posts shows ballet is a form of religion. As usual when you can't support something you say, you ignore it. Pick and choose, pick and choose, pick and choose.........................

I think Kanelli did an excellent job in pointing out how ballet and religion are so closely related. :lol:

-- Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:58 pm --

shafique wrote:Given this is the 'Politics Talk' forum.why should this have anything to do with religion (my posts about the Israeli Military Occupation aren't about religion, for example).
Cheers,
Shafique


Now that's funny Shaf - NOT. You constantly post in politics on religion. :roll: But I will point out: what exactly does ballet have to do with either politics or religion. :lol: :lol:

dubai-politics-talk/churches-against-islamophobia-t46838.html#p382069
dubai-politics-talk/islamophobia-and-anti-semitism-t46781.html#p381258
dubai-politics-talk/religious-violence-nyc-t46627-15.html#p379853

Zero interest by DF members:

dubai-politics-talk/young-con-guide-muslims-hip-hop-t46553.html#p378651
dubai-politics-talk/xualisation-children-t46613.html#p379430
dubai-politics-talk/rational-zionism-t46610.html#p379388

Shall I continue listing threads that you posted in politics that have nothing to do with politics???
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 14, 2011
Bora, you are the one that asked what ballet has to do with religion - don't get in a huff because you got your forums mixed up.

I just pointed out that when I post on subjects not related to Islam (eg Israeli Occupation of Palestine), I do it in the Politics section.

As for whether a school providing a venue for a group of people to pursue an activity they want to pursue is the same when it is for ballet as opposed to collective prayer, I'll leave it to others to judge whether it is irrelevant or not. To me both are elective and it would be bizare to object ballet classes as a sign of the tutu brigade wanting to take over etc.

Objecting to children in Canada being given permission to pray on Friday lunchtimes on the grounds that you believe it violates the separation of Church and State is a valid argument - but not one everyone will agree with. I take the view it doesn't actually violate this separation - because it is elective, it is providing a venue for Muslims.

And yes, I do post about Islamophobia and other myths in politics - Islamophobia is a political problem in many manifestations.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
Jesus! And they say women go on and on and on.
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
Shaf, it IS a violation of separation of religion and state. You seem to be supporting special treatment for Muslims which is not afforded to other religious groups.

You still haven't answered the question about what the harm is for Muslim kids to pray after school hours (after 3:30 pm) on Friday where the parents and students can rent the facilities for their purposes, or why Muslims can't pray on Saturdays outside of school and work time - an adaptation that people of other religions must do when living in Muslim countries.

Everyone still has their religious freedom do they not?
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
kanelli wrote: You seem to be supporting special treatment for Muslims which is not afforded to other religious groups.


Nope - see other thread.

I would similarly support 40min a week at lunch time for any other group to hold whatever prayer service they want to hold.

My distinction is that if it is elective and not for all, it isn't a violation of the principle of separation. If the School forced or promoted one religious view - then that would be a violation, IMO. Just allowing the students to pray for 40 min each Friday isn't.

That's just my view. As for the legalities - the lawyers can argue that out and establish whether in law it violates the legal principles or not.

We clearly have a difference in opinion - you believe categorically it is a violation, I don't.

Cheers,
Shafique

PS - You ask what harm there is to miss the Friday prayer and say the prayers after school. No physical harm at all - just like there's no physical harm from allowing them to worship on Friday. The benefit, though, is real for Muslims. Why deny them of this benefit, if it doesn't harm anyone else?
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
Is there a real benefit for Christians to pray on Sundays? Sunday is a work day in the Muslim world and Christians often can't attend a typical 9 am Sunday church service so they have to make alternative arrangements. I don't think they will go to hell for that. They are simply needing to adjust for differences when they are a minority in the society.
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
Just out of curiosity, but did the article discuss any inherent s.exist practices of ballet that should raise objections from parents and staff?
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
kanelli wrote:Is there a real benefit for Christians to pray on Sundays?


That's one for the Christians to answer.

The Friday prayer for Muslims is important - the sermon actually forms part of the collective worship. On other days you do 4 'rakaats' (series of movements and prayers) in the mid-day prayer. For Friday, the sermon replaces two of these. Therefore listening to the sermon is considered an act of worship.

(Note that therefore the girls having a period are participating fully in this part of the service, and just not taking part physically in the 2 rakaats of congregational formal prayer).

In practice, of course some Muslims miss out on Friday prayers if they can't get to a mosque or don't get time off. Some choose not to attend even if they can (like some who drink etc).

However, shouldn't we be talking about principles here? A school has allowed some of its students to benefit from 40 min of collective worship once a week. I think there is merit in taking time off during the day for prayer, meditation, contemplation (and very moderate exercise) - all parts of the Muslim form of worship.

If the school had allowed the hall to be used on Wednesdays (say) for motivational speakers and meditation/yoga - would people really have made any objection, if this was just there for those who want to go? What if it turned out it was a hindu group who were using the devotional form of Yoga and reading from their scriptures - would that change the objection? (Yoga as a form of prayer, rather than exercise, is its original purpose IIRC)

Ballet, yoga or collective prayer - as long as they are elective, they don't violate the separation of Church and State IMO.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
Shaf, I really think you are being evasive.

We ARE talking about principles here. The Muslim students are benefiting by getting special treatment that other students of other religions don't get. The group is using the premises for free, during school hours, using school resources. Public schools strive to make environments that don't discriminate against religion, gender, race, sex.uality etc. Islam (as well as other religions) teaches things that are opposite to those, so you have the public school teaching one thing and lunch-time religious service teaching another. But screw the school principles that aim for harmony, we should be focusing on the benefits to the minority of Muslims?

Yes, the criticism stands for Hindus who want to do devotional yoga with scriptures on school premises, during school time, using school resources. There should be no religion in public schools, period.
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
Well, at least we are now clear that we disagree on a principle - I would not object to hindus doing devotional yoga during lunch time, as long as it was elective.

As stated in the other thread, I understand the separation of church and state argument, I just view a 40 min collective prayer on a Friday as an activity that doesn't violate this principle.

The whole Friday service is an act of worship for Muslims, as I've explained, and on the principle that it:
1. does no harm - either to those participating, or those who are not in the room
2. doesn't impinge on teaching time
3. is elective

I personally think it doesn't violate the principle of separation. I fully understand you take the opposite view that it does - on the grounds that it is a religous act (worship).

Can we agree to disagree?

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
Yes, of course we can :)
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
shafique wrote:
kanelli wrote:Is there a real benefit for Christians to pray on Sundays?


That's one for the Christians to answer.

The Friday prayer for Muslims is important - the sermon actually forms part of the collective worship. On other days you do 4 'rakaats' (series of movements and prayers) in the mid-day prayer. For Friday, the sermon replaces two of these. Therefore listening to the sermon is considered an act of worship.

However, shouldn't we be talking about principles here? A school has allowed some of its students to benefit from 40 min of collective worship once a week. I think there is merit in taking time off during the day for prayer, meditation, contemplation (and very moderate exercise) - all parts of the Muslim form of worship.
Ballet, yoga or collective prayer - as long as they are elective, they don't violate the separation of Church and State IMO.

Cheers,
Shafique


By your own admission it is worship - relating to religion.

I gave this some thought this morning and came to the conclusion that this is all just a Shaf windup. :lol: Thank you for your sermon Shaf. :lol:

As for taking time off during the day for prayer, meditation, contemplation - there are 24 hours to the day, so why would it be so hard to do it on your own time? Assuming you work for a western company, when you are at work Shaf do you get paid to do this on company time?? Do you sit there staring at the ceiling and if asked what are you doing do you tell your boss "I'm contemplating how to justify my frivilous arguments on DF"? :lol:
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
Bora - I assure it isn't a wind up.

I summarised my view and where I differ with kanelli (and presumably your view) on the specific point whether the 40 min period on Friday where Muslim school kids worship violates the principle of separation of Church and State.

My simple point is that it does not, in my view. It's my judgement call. (To be clear -I'm not against the separation of church and state, I just view this 40 min congregational prayer for Muslims as not violating the principle).

Let's wait to see whether on point of law/regulations the lawyers agree with my point of view or not.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
shafique wrote:Bora - I assure it isn't a wind up.

I summarised my view and where I differ with kanelli (and presumably your view) on the specific point whether the 40 min period on Friday where Muslim school kids worship violates the principle of separation of Church and State.

My simple point is that it does not, in my view. It's my judgement call. (To be clear -I'm not against the separation of church and state, I just view this 40 min congregational prayer for Muslims as not violating the principle).

Let's wait to see whether on point of law/regulations the lawyers agree with my point of view or not.

Cheers,
Shafique


You consulted lawyers on this??? :shock: :shock:
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
:shock:

:D No - I'm assuming that those opposing what the school has done will be pursuing this via legal/government channels. The protestations seem to resolve around whether it violates government regulations or not. Someone in authority will rule, I'm assuming.

I.e. let the lawyers decide on the legal aspects - I'm giving my view in relation to the general principle of separation of church and state, and whether this 40 min on Friday lunchtime violates this.

(I'm sure I've said all this before :D :D )

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
what about them ballerinas now?
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
Many consider them haram.
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
I'm not keen on men in tights.
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
shafique wrote::shock:

:D No - I'm assuming that those opposing what the school has done will be pursuing this via legal/government channels. The protestations seem to resolve around whether it violates government regulations or not. Someone in authority will rule, I'm assuming.

I.e. let the lawyers decide on the legal aspects - I'm giving my view in relation to the general principle of separation of church and state, and whether this 40 min on Friday lunchtime violates this.

(I'm sure I've said all this before :D :D )

Cheers,
Shafique


Yes, Shaf you have said it before. Actually you are constantly repeating yourself. Up to now you are the only one who doesn't get it. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Balletophobia Jul 15, 2011
:D
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