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Flying Dutchman wrote:How in hell did you get the idea that women who dress according to you provocative in general want to be propositioned? What or who gave you that idea?

You are confusing with me with event horizon. He's the one who claimed.

event horizon wrote:Not if those women are from societies where propositioning women is frowned upon.

I asked:

Which country is it where women dress provocatively and don't expect to be propositioned/chatted up etc?

It was a simple enough question - which country/society is he referring to? And is it actually true that women who dress provocatively don't expect to be chatted up etc?

Why would the answer to the question be an invitation to do some research?

Name the countries. Stop wriggling.

Cheers,
Shafique

I don't know anyone in my community (society) who proposition people.

What's so difficult to understand about that?

Ergo, why would females from my same community expect to be propositioned?

event horizon wrote:I don't know anyone in my community (society) who proposition people.

As you live in America - is it your contention that there are no American ladies who dress provocatively (let's take for example the American ladies who Chappelle says wear the 'hoe's uniform') and expect to be chatted up by men?

Really?

Is that your belief?

Cheers,

Shafique

What part of "I don't know anyone one in my community who proposition people" don't you understand?

If I don't know any people who proposition others in my community, why would I think that females in my community who don't dress up as ninjas would expect to be propositioned?

Stop wriggling

Is it your belief that that there are no American ladies who dress provocatively (let's take for example the American ladies who Chappelle says wear the 'hoe's uniform') and expect to be chatted up by men?

Is that your belief? Yes or no?

Cheers,

Shafique

I have some acquaintances that you might consider chav ladies (and dress as such) shaf, and I have to say, none did ever go out to be propositioned. Again who or what did give you that idea?

So in Holland you have some ladies who dress like 'chavs' and don't expect to be propositioned or attract the attention of men according to you. Ok, I don't doubt that.

My question to eh though was in which society or country are there NO women who dress provocatively and expect to attract the attention of men and be chatted up? FD, are you saying in Holland no woman expects to be chatted up or propositioned if they 'dress like chavs'?

There is a difference between saying some women dress provocatively and expect to be not treated as Dave describes - but to say that none expect this is what I'm questioning.

Over to you eh - where is this country/society? Do the women you know dress provocatively?

Cheers,

Shafique

event horizon wrote:I don't know anyone in my community (society) who proposition people. What's so difficult to understand about that?Ergo, why would females from my same community expect to be propositioned?

How many people live in your "community"? 6? Do you live with a cult on a farm and never leave it? live in a tight Utah mormon community? or in caves? or high in the mountains? or is it that you don't get out into the real world? Or do you live in that far away place called LaLaLand??

How can you speak for an entire community, never mind an entire society? Do you really know every detail about the lives of the people in your community? Do you know what your neighbors have planned for the day/night? You know for a fact that there is no man in your "community" that has ever propositioned a woman in his life? For all you know your neighbor could be a p<3n freak and his wife works from home and getting paid as a phone s.e.x. provider.

Woah - all those questions for eh to ignore!



Cheers,

Shafique

My question to eh though was in which society or country are there NO women who dress provocatively and expect to attract the attention of men and be chatted up?

It's not in my community I'm aware of.

So, why would I think that females from my community - which doesn't proposition/cat-call/etc females - would expect to be cat called/propositioned?

Going off topic doesn't change what I initially wrote to kanelli.

She said females should expect to be propositioned. I disagreed.

Females from communities where they are not propositioned obviously would not expect to be propositioned.

Do the women you know dress provocatively?

The only ones dressed provocatively are the ones costumed in bee keeper suits.

How many people live in your "community"? 6?

No, I don't live in Egypt.

(Whoops, am I attacking your husband )

But hey, I'm sorry if the guys where you live ask for your going rate every time your husband gives you permission to step outside with something less than a quilt on.

That doesn't happen where I live. Must be a religious/cultural thing. You know, people here have common decency and all that.

I do believe he's saying he lives in la-la land.

Why else will he not say why he thinks he can speak for a whole community as Bora asks.

Cheers,

Shafique

event horizon ,

Once again, you demonstrate that your stupidity has no limits. Keep up the good work!!!!

? Is this coming from the person who speaks for the whole Muslim world when he says he knows of no Muslim who beats his wife?

event horizon wrote:

tony89 , pretty much! It is naive for women to dress very provocatively and then be shocked that men proposition them or stare at them uncomfortably.

Not if those women are from societies where propositioning women is frowned upon.

And where are those societies?

Well, my gay friend who usually wore jeans and t-shirt or button down preppy shirt looked completely different when he went out to the bar. My mouth was hanging open when I saw him in a lace-up front shirt and shorts so short that his butt cheeks were hanging out. There is no mistaking that he was after attention. So, again, if a woman is going to wear a skirt so short and have half of her breasts hanging out, you can be pretty sure that she wants male attention and will get it. Still, even if not dressed provocatively, just being in a bar or club is an environment ripe for being propositioned, no matter what you are wearing, and no matter if living in a conservative country or not.

I was in a Jazz club in Ottawa with my dad when I was 21. I was not dressed provocatively, was wearing dressy jeans and a simple top (winter, and I didn't expect to be going to a club with my dad). Was asked to dance a couple of times by a guy who in the end, despite me telling him that I had a boyfriend insisted that we should see each other and sleep together every time I was visiting my dad in Ottawa. He attempted kissing me and I told him I was absolutely not interested and walked off. After telling my dad and asking why he wasn't tempted to punch the guy out he said, "You're beautiful, of course there are guys who want you. You handled him perfectly fine yourself." I thought the guy was bold and creepy to ask that when he knew little about me, but I have to give the guy credit - he was upfront and honest about what he wanted. I am thankful that I don't have a dad who would shame me for attracting male attention, no matter what I was wearing, or try to control my se.xuality in any way beyond educating me to be smart and make good decisions and be aware of consequences.

And where are those societies?

I assume most Western society.

I've never witnessed someone ask for a woman's going rate or give a cat call because of what she wore.

But that's beside the point. Why would a female expect to be propositioned if she's not personally used to strange men propositioning women wearing the same clothes she wears?

Proposition = ask to pay for se.x with a woman? That's a limited definition, don't you think EH?

Better not ASSUME based on clothing that a woman wants to be propositioned or is a 'hoe', otherwise it tends to get very creepy from there on.

shafique wrote:Woah - all those questions for eh to ignore!

Baiting.

--- Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:30 am ---

shafique wrote:I do believe he's saying he lives in la-la land.

Why else will he not say why he thinks he can speak for a whole community as Bora asks.

Baiting!

There aren't any moderators here. This is the wild west, anything goes.

--- Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:15 pm ---

Flying Dutchman , So if two wome are standing on the side of the road wearing next to nothing, one is a prostitute and one is just waiting for her friends to go to the bar, how does the john know who to approach? If the wrong woman is approached, should she be outraged that she was mistaken for trying to attract se.xual attention? Come now, let's be honest and realistic here.

kanelli wrote:There aren't any moderators here. This is the wild west, anything goes.

With moderators there were numerous calls left alone to kill jews, to fry jews, to feed jews to the dogs. That wasn't the wild west for you?

kanelli wrote:So if two wome are standing on the side of the road wearing next to nothing, one is a prostitute and one is just waiting for her friends to go to the bar, how does the john know who to approach? If the wrong woman is approached, should she be outraged that she was mistaken for trying to attract se.xual attention? Come now, let's be honest and realistic here.

I am not familiar with street prostitution. But I think the woman has any right to feel insulted.

Flying Dutchman , the moderation was always crappy and inconsistent on this forum. Why are you upset at anti-Jewish posts on here when you are constantly posting anti-Islamic junk? The crazy Jew haters haven't been posting for about a year, and Symmetric is recently gone, so where are all the Jew death threat posts that have you riled up at the moment? A look through the Politics forum reveals hundreds of of anti-Islamic topics courtesy of you, EH and Herve.

So prostitutes dress in a way to signal to men that they are prostitutes and can be approached, but when a woman who isn't a prostitute dresses exactly like a prostitute she should be insulted if she is approached for se.x? Please tell me why a woman would choose to dress so scantily as to look exactly like a prostitute then? Prostitutes dress purposely to attract customers. Are the other women just too stupid to realize that dressing a certain way sends a message to others? Why do people dress professionally for job interviews then? They should have every right to turn up in a track suit and be offended if they are immediately discounted for the job. Clothes don't affect how people are treated in society, no... not at all!

kanelli wrote: Why are you upset at anti-Jewish posts on here when you are constantly posting anti-Islamic junk?

Are you seriously comparing several calls to wipe out a whole ethnic group to what I post. And you wonder why it might upset somebody, when reading that jews should be fried and fed to the dogs? Shame on you!

Flying Dutchman , where is the post about how Jews should be fried and fed to the dogs? Was that something said by one of the people already banned from this site? If it was something posted by a hate-monger a long time ago, maybe you should get over it. Just because a few wingnuts have been loose on this site posting anti-Jewish crap over the years, doesn't mean that it should give a free pass for you and the others to post anti-Islamic crap almost every day. With all of the apparent hate that some of you have for Muslims based on your posts, why are you working. living, and taking money from them in Dubai? Shaf gets called a "terrorist in a suit" after you guys imply that he is hateful and dangerous.... but what exactly should we call you guys with all the intolerant crap that you post? The Jew haters have been banned, but the anti-Islamic propagandists remain - shouldn't you feel privileged?

Shame on you for being a complete hypocrite.

Once again this thread goes off track. It is supposed to be about if a woman is "asking for it".

Yes, "she is asking for it". I am always amazed how much credibility this gets from the feminist side. Do people seriously think that when a woman buys a miniskirt, she think, hmmm I want to get raped coming weekend, yes, I really want to have se.x against my will.
The complementary side is the famous feminist quote "all men are rapists". Sure with that mentality you better stay at home.
I donot think the more modest women dress, the less rape or sexual harassment will occur. I would almost say on the contrary.

If you are saying that women are asking to be raped because of what they wear, you are the only person in this thread claiming that.

Troll!

Where did I claim that women are asking to be raped because of what they wear in this thread? My claim has been the exact opposite.

Flying Dutchman , your post above mine says, "Yes, "she is asking for it"."

Everyone else here also says that a woman doesn't deserve to be raped for what she wears. Guess we all agree then!

kanelli wrote:your post above mine says, "Yes, "she is asking for it"."

And with that (which was just a conformation to get on topic again), and what I wrote afterwards in that post, you concluded I support the "she is asking for it" argument? Really?

I said, "If you are saying..." you clarified that you weren't saying that, rather the sentence you wrote was supposed to show that you were coming back onto the topic. Fair enough.